Another shocking tourist death

[BobHelm]

I think that it is all too late for Thailand to salvage much from this affair.
It is difficult to understand exactly what, this far after the event, the British police can do to ensure that all is as it should be. I don't doubt that the two accused were subjected to mental, if not physical, torture & abhorrent as that might be, that will neither prove nor disprove their guilt. The DNA 'evidence' has been available for so much tampering (if required) as to make it worthless as real evidence.

I am sad that the families will probably remain in doubt as to exactly how & why their children met their untimely end for ever..

[JoeThrows]

I have a slightly different view in that I believe Thailand as a whole can come out well ahead in this, if and only if prayut throws somyot and the rest of the rtp under the bus. Thais are well aware the rtp are completely corrupt, they just haven't had time or opportunity to speak freely and openly about it.

Now I said if and only if and that's still most likely one too many ifs, but the opportunity is there at least. Inactive posts won't do. If in fact the police were involved in covering something up it will be known thanks to a professional police report from a credible source. Obviously no one is going to believe or be satisfied with a Thai police report. When the cupboards are opened up and the sun shines in, the cockroaches run for their lives.

[jackspratt]

I have a slightly different view in that I believe Thailand as a whole can come out well ahead in this, if and only if prayut throws somyot and the rest of the rtp under the bus.

That might prove a bit embarrassing, given that Prayuth removed the previous police chief (Adul) shortly after the coup, and installed Somyot as, presumably, his own man.

[JoeThrows]

That part is clear. If your own hand picked guy is weighing you down however or constantly putting his foot in your mouth, the decision seems much more sincere, logical and correct. The guy is pretty clearly a Joe Biden level buffoon.

[BobHelm]

If you wish to quote me then do so dazzz & not put words in my mouth that I never said.
It would also be useful if you could attach actual quotes to the string of off topic beliefs that you attribute to UdonMap members, because I have never seen any of the thoughts that you quote written here..

We all know who killed this couple and so do the police and all the people in thailand.

Well, I , for one have NO idea who killed this couple & if you have facts that support your claim then I can only suggest that you get in touch with The British Embassy immediately!!

[rjj04]

If there has been tampering with evidence in this case, then it will be very difficult for British Police to figure that out. If tampering has happened then the only way that is realistically going to be found out is if one of the low level coppers breaks his silence. The consequences to said copper would no doubt be very bad in the long term. Perhaps the British Police should let it be known, as they go about their investigation, that any officer with knowledge of evidence tampering will be quickly issued with a long term British visa, and perhaps some support in Britain... as that officer would surely not want to hang around Thailand... if I were him. Just a thought. Of course everything could be completely above board.

[JoeThrows]

I did some forensic accounting in an earlier career as an enrolled agent. it's not really that difficult to find out when or where something was tampered with. Who and why is a different matter.

[Khun Paul]

Evidence can be tampered with if the investigating officer and his cronies are fully aware and comply with the late signing of signatures, falsified tags etc etc etc. If as in this case the police are the only people involved i the investigation, then in fact anything can happen and it is believed that it has, evidence obtained and inserted into the investigation to prove or otherwise disprove other evidence obtained by what is believed to be dubious methods.

What cannot be tampered with is the DNA of the victims and the DNA of the accused, however all other gathered DNA samples can and in some cases often is tampered or falsely obtained to prove a case. That is why the Forensic services in most Western countries are transparent in the collection and storage of such evidence rarely is it doubted as the evidence chain is solid.
Unless the British police were allowed to conduct the investigation from the beginning then they will have to take on trust that samples offered were obtained correctly and the evidence chain is 100% solid. I think deep down that as they are not any longer according to the news this AM involved in the investigation, but still only looking on, then their observance will come to sort the Police not to show them up and so silence the rest of the world as the British police found nothing wrong will be their cry.
Maybe I am a cynic but i think it is double edged sword, the British are screwed if they don't go as they then cannot complain and the RTP are exonerated as an external highly thought of police Force agree with their findings ( even though most of us are aware those findings are flawed )

I agree that in most countries we know that DNA samples themselves are tricky to tamper with, but how they were obtained, from whom and when and even where obtained can be tampered with so although the result might point a finger at certain people, the question is and after looking at the crime scene publically displayed and the vast amount of people at the scene immediately afterwards and the ad hoc way the RTP obtained DNA samples from some but not all people, then it is highly likely to my ancient trained mind that there has been a deliberate attempt to incriminate the accused to close the case satisfactorily.
The only way to prove or disprove is to retake the samples used in the initial enquiry and test them again, that is NOT going to happen and it is obvious the RTP will never allow that, so any further investigation is pointless, but is has shown the ROYAL Thai Police to be inefficient. corrupt/incompetent and totally useless in major crimes unless they have a person who is willing to confess and show them how they did it, so the photo calls can be made with all those smug officers smiling happily.

My advice if anyone is arrested, say nothing and do nothing, then they are really stumped.

[GT93]

That's a big serve dazzz. It kind of speaks for itself. If I'm the psychopath you allege, it will all be water off the duck's back.

On 31 August Stickman said this website is doing well:

"Thailand's #2 discussion forum, TeakDoor, changed hands not so long ago and is going from strength to strength. It's the same with UdonMap, the #1 forum for expats in Isaan, where the new owner has grown the business. Sometimes new blood is needed to take a site to the next level."

It's about 10 paragraphs into his weekly column. I would expect he's better informed on these things than you.

I too urge you to give the names of the perpetrators to the British authorities. They might do a similar crime again if they are not caught now.

I fear KP is correct in his analysis on this mess.

[sgt]

With 10 years under my belt as a certified/commissioned law enforcement officer, I have to agree with Joe Throws and KP. The 2 Burmese guys are screwed. The British cops will probably know that the case is rigged but won't be given access to the evidence needed to prove it. Therefore they won't be able to say anything and the RTP will believe that everybody will believe they did a great job. Kinda' like the fumbling bureau of idiots in the states that watched too much of their own propaganda. Nobody on that island, ex-pat or not will talk, at least not to the cops. Some have talked with friends but the fear of reprisal is too great at this point and specific info can lead right back to the source. I have personally seen the extent the US government (feds/local cops) will go to just to silence someone and it isn't pretty. The RTP are just one hell of a lot sloppier.

[maaka]

I do hope the Udon gang tag doesnt apply to all of us Dazz..

true there are some comments here that are way out in left field, and I dont run with them, however, if it wasnt for Udonmap.Com, I would not have meet certain ex professional gentlemen, formed a team behind the scenes to put our combined knowledge and skills together, and thus assist the western authorities and more importantly, the families who lost loved ones, and help them find some closure as to what caused their loved ones deaths in a certain Thai hotel case, and on another Thai island..alas the work is dangerous, and I / we cannot assist every family who looses a dear one while on holiday..

forget the DNA, and get Mr Cameron to take nothing less than for his UK policemen to carry out a lie detector test on the Burmese boys, and take it from there..

from my quick look at the lads, they wouldnt hurt a fly..it is one thing to rape, but it is totally another thing to hack to death two people with a hoe..

[JoeThrows]

Hacking stabbing raping and drowning is the work of someone with a massive inferiority complex, result of some perceived insult etc. hard to deny the rage aspect. I've been there many times and done business in those islands for years. Nothing would surprise me.

[Khun Paul]

I have said what i think about the curent situation and for sure , now it is too little too late in my estimation. As soon as the the RTP got their hands on it and the pressure was ut on to solve the case, plus the erroneous statements that there is no way Thai could do it, then we all knew that it would just be a matter of time before some foreign person would get the blame and as the Burmese are illegal workers anyway, nowt to lose.
Unfortunately with the current hands off policy and this is Thailand rubbish emanating from not only the Foreign office ( Thai ) and the Police including the PM nothing will be gained by anyone else observing.
it is so sad that person who although attempting to show that he is in charge is unable to prove publicly and on the world stage that he is in fact in charge of the country. Deep down i suspect he knows that this is a crock of poo but he has to back up the country no matter how unpalatable that is .
The families fo the deceased might feel a little closure but i doubt it and they know as does anyone else with a grain of intelligence that it is a flawed situation but as with so much in this country, Thais themselves feel unable to speak out due to possible recriminations.
it is very sad situation which luckily has gone internationally viral and something that Thailand will take a long time to overcome especially regarding their Police service, which has shown itself to the number one worst state agency by far .

[sgt]

Frankly about the only hope for this case to be "solved" is for someone with enough money to pay the right person/persons to create "justice", if you get my drift. A Barret Lite 50 might be appropriate. My belief is the PM knows who committed this murder and that he has done so before. PM won't do anything, money and power talks, all else is flushed down the toilet. The 2 guys from Myanmar are as good as dead and they didn't do it. One other solution may be that when one creates a bad enough situation the bad guys take care of it later, that isn't a myth, even happens in governments. One thing for sure, there will be no public closure in this case.

[JoeThrows]

There's reason enough to doubt the entire Thai investigation. I expect these observers to remove the doubts, the rtp are culpable along with the perpetrators whomever they are

[Aardvark]

Another Twist .... http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/politic ... urder-case

[Earnest]

Ah well.

But in reality, they'd just be observers anyway, the Thai police wouldn't let them anywhere near any evidence.

[maaka]

Hence the role moi has played in the past in getting our own evidence, or positioning other outsiders in order to do so, without parties loosing face..

Foreign Embassies, police or what have you, have no authority in most cases, in any country, to swan about and do their own thing..in this case they are observers, and only are given what evidence the TP want the UK police to see..but having said that and if any of the victims family come to read this, keep pressuring your PM for lie detector tests on the Burma boys and done by the UK police using one of the British Embassy Burma intrepreters...

If the Thai Police are indeed correct about the DNA and the boys, then what have they to fear from a detector test kap...there is more to than the murders, there is the possibility of maybe two innocent boys going away for ever, or worse..

[trubrit]

.

If the Thai Police are indeed correct about the DNA and the boys, then what have they to fear from a detector test kap...there is more to than the murders, there is the possibility of maybe two innocent boys going away for ever, or worse..

There is also the fact that the murderer would still be roaming the island to prey on other tourists getting even more confident of his invincibilty to rape anyone his warped lust desires. :-"

[dtammakhung]

Hub of murder cover ups. For all those who scoffed at people who said such things calling them delusional conspiracy theorists. Well NOW the whole world knows. The chickens have at last come home to roost reflected in tourists down more than 50%. If it stinks tourists won't like the smell.