Smoking or not in Restaurants

[businessman]

Maybe the guy does not want to eat food in a room full of smoke.

[arjay]

......... In which case, he wouldn't be the only one!!

[valentine]

Stopped in Irish Bar and just a bit smoky for me so drank up ;o)

Strange!! I thought this was an air conditioned restaurant. In which case , smoking is prohibited by law and punishable by a hefty fine unless
"A totally enclosed area is provided, either for the diners or the smokers"
I have eaten in there on many occasions but fortunately no smokers were present. Had there been, I would have most certainly complained as not only do I detest smoke with my food, I am actually allergic to it, breaking out into an uncontrollable sneezing session which I normally try and deflect in the direction of the offending smoker.
I remember this was a problem the previous owner of Mojo's had. Serving food in an air-conditioned bar. He eventually resolved it by turning off the air con, them asking diners to eat outside.But of course, then everyone complained about the heat. But the law is the law!!

[arjay]

I had similar thoughts.

I think it's down to the commitment of the Management, and if they smoke then non-smokers are on a loser.

When I ate at the restaurant referred to above, just before Xmas there were signs saying no smoking towards the back of the restaurant, but these seemed to be widely ignored, and the new manager sat right on the invisible boundary - smoking, whilst the chef walked up and down smoking. On another visit people were smoking all along the bar including in the "no-smoking" section.

I suffer an allergy to cigarette smoke, as you do Val, so on the second occasion I had to withdraw.

[BKKSTAN]

Nice venue,nice people,but sounds like it will be a smokers bar!Just so many customers to go around,I think they have made their choice!

[valentine]

Nice venue,nice people,but sounds like it will be a smokers bar!Just so many customers to go around,I think they have made their choice!

It is none the less against the law to serve food in an aircon restaurant where smoking is permitted. So the freedom of choice is restricted to either banning smoking, turning off the aircon or cease serving food . There is one other way and that is to construct, as the law says, a totally enclosed smoking area, the likes of which you see at airports where the smokers may gather and pollute each other.I am rather worried as the management do not seem to be concerned as to the breach of a Hygiene & Health regulation in full view of its customers, whether that same complacency exists in other departments.

[BKKSTAN]

I agree Val,but what businesses are following the letter of the law?

[valentine]

I agree Val,but what businesses are following the letter of the law?

This law is heavily enforced in Pattaya restaurants with regular checks by health officials from City Hall visiting, accompanied by law enforcement officers.I see no reason why it should be different in Udon Thani. It is in any case , strictly adhered to by many restaurants and hotel businesses here already.

[beer monkey]

I agree Val,but what businesses are following the letter of the law?

This law is heavily enforced in Pattaya restaurants with regular checks by health officials from City Hall visiting, accompanied by law enforcement officers.I see no reason why it should be different in Udon Thani. It is in any case , strictly adhered to by many restaurants and hotel businesses here already.

and bangkok resturants, as they have been since the law came out many years ago.
Even on the streets of bangkok now you feel like you are out of place smoking now, and as there are no bins to stub out your cigar and bin the butt it makes it more difficult.

Strange enough i did think this law never reached Udon.

(sounds like a new topic to be made from this thread )

[muscle]

Last week the wife and I walked in, were assailed by the smoke, turned around and left. It reminded me of most German establishments. They have decided to be a smoker's bar.
Not for us.

[Galee]

Last week the wife and I walked in, were assailed by the smoke, turned around and left. It reminded me of most German establishments. They have decided to be a smoker's bar.
Not for us.

If that's the case, I'm another customer they have lost.

Shame as I like The Clock.

[arjay]

Last week the wife and I walked in, were assailed by the smoke, turned around and left. They have decided to be a smoker's bar.
Not for us.

If that's the case, I'm another customer they have lost.

My sentiments entirely.

[valentine]

It's rather a shame really, because although the food is pricey it does look rather nice in BM's photos. I would have been prepared to give it an occassional try, but the thought of eating in a smokey atmosphere would definitely be a no no .Maybe the management or one of his supporters on the forum would like to give us his views. Is it to be a smokers pub, or a very nice restaurant?

[BobHelm]

Val, that is a real hard one to answer.
I wouldn't say that I am a "supporter" of this establishments management as I do not know them that well.
BUT I have eaten there a few times and the food is excellent value for money & IMO the best Falang food you can get in Udon.
I am also a smoker so the smoke doesn't bother me & (except for the weekend) I don't think that it would effect anyone else either as (like most Falang places in Udon) it is pretty quiet most evenings. There are a couple of tables outside as well - but that is not everyones ideal of fun either, I know.

[BKKSTAN]

I have only been there once,in the evening!As I remember,there was about 10 customers with 3-4 smokers,one smoking a cigar.I don't like the smell of smoke,especially while I am eating!I don't remember the smoke bothering me that evening!I do avoid venues that are smokey!

I do agree about the food and the service being of excellent quality!But if I walked in and I was overwhelmed by smoke,I would do as Val did,turnaround and go elsewhere!Which could be an inconvenience if I was meeting friends there!

Fortunately,I don't need or desire falang food that much to be limited with eating options!

[lee]

I remember a friend commenting about the recently enforced smoking ban in the UK, he said that the airs cleaner in the pubs but now you can smell everyone's farts previously covered up by the smell of cigarette smoke. LOL

The question is, is methane bad for your health? LOL! If so, there maybe a time when no farting zones will be introduced in public places, and booths at the airport for you to let rip. Don't light a match in one though.

Fortunately,I don't need or desire falang food that much to be limited with eating options!

I tried the Thai food the other night and was very impressed. The penang khai with rice was very tasty.

[Doc]

Maybe the management or one of his supporters on the forum would like to give us his views. Is it to be a smokers pub, or a very nice restaurant?

It can be both - but it requires some give and take from patrons on both sides of the issue - ie. smokers and non-smokers. If for example, Val goes in and starts raising hell and demanding that the law be followed to the letter, then he will be told to piss off. If, on the other hand, Val were to go in and sit in the far back area, which is designated as non-smoking and then politely complain about people smoking in that section, he would find everyone to be a lot more amenable to his desires and preferences. Of course, if he starts sneezing and directing his sneezes at a smoker without saying anything, then he may very well get popped in his snotty nose, and rightfully so.

I do take issue with those who have claimed that the place is "smoke filled." It is virtually impossible for the place to be smoke filled given the 20 foot high ceiling and 5 air conditioners working over time. Me thinks that some people are taking a bit of a literary license on that claim.

Three points now:

The first is that this place is opening up an outside dining area that appears to be very nice. Each open hut will have at least one fan. Hence, non-smokers can dine there in a smoke free environment. It has a large smoke eater in the main area of the bar, which is running all the time, to the best of my knowledge. So, this venue is trying to accomodate everyone.



The second is that everything comes down to economics. 90% of the customers that are paying the check bin at this place are smokers. They are in the place on a regular basis and form the core customer base. In other words - they are the actual bread and butter for this place. They spend, on average, between 500 and 1,500 baht per visit which is typically 4 to 7 days a week. In other words - they rightfully expect that their desires be catered to rather than supporting the desires of a customer that comes in only once or twice a week for a meal and then leaves. The management will certainly cater to them.

Third, the comparison was made to Pattaya, Bangkok and other large cities. The argument is that they enforce the smoking laws there, and hence, the laws should be enforced the same in Udon. That is like comparing apples to oranges.

The customer base is much, much greater in those areas than it is in Udon. Technically, this place is the nicest bar in Udon. It has the best amenities, and can be billed as a "family place." Many people bring their kids in to eat, and the kids are basically allowed to wander around and do their thing. (Personally, I hate kids, but that would be a different tangent. )

The smoking laws are not going to be strictly enforced here in Udon for quite some time as it would be disasterous to business. The big hotels adhere to the laws - and that is their choice. However, they are drawing in a much larger number of customers, so they have to be "sensitive" to everyone's needs, wants and desires. A smaller business like this place doesn't have that luxury. It has to cater to the majority of the customers that walk through the door. If the non-smokers were to regularly out number the smokers, then I am sure their policies would change. However, it is smokers and those who tolerate the smoke who are a bigger asset to a bar's profit margin than the adamant non-smokers.

On a personal level, if I were to own a bar or restaurant and were to read posts complaining about my prices and the atmosphere, I would do absolutely nothing to encourage that person to patronize my establishment. I would have the preconceived notion that there wouldn't be anything that I could do to please that person, and it isn't worth my efforts to try to please someone that is only going to come in and spend maybe 200 Baht or so once in awhile. In short - and very much to the point - losing that type of a potential customer isn't going to affect the bottom line one iota. In fact, a place without miserable old crumudgeons will breed happier customers over all, who are will to spend a lot more money.

Disclaimer: This posting was not paid for by the establishment in question, nor is it endorsed or otherwise sponsored by them. If however, the Management of this place wishes to buy me a couple of Tigers and give me a cigar, it will be greatly accepted.

[valentine]

Hi Doc, a rather long winded reply, but that's your style I have noticed. You have stated previously that you are an intelligent man. Tell me please how do you confine foul smoke to a particular area of a room? You state the largest percentage of customers are smokers. Did you not read the postings on how many non smokers walked out? Don't you think this may have biased the statistics?
Guess the short reply is. "It's a smokers bar" you really didn't need to say anything more. Surprised your condoning the law breaking. You a policeman too

[Doc]

Tell me please how do you confine foul smoke to a particular area of a room?

What may smell foul to one person does not bother another person.
I agree - it is extremely difficult to do, if not impossible. However, I belive that you are looking at things as black and white, and not willing to have any compromise.

You state the largest percentage of customers are smokers. Did you not read the postings on how many non smokers walked out? Don't you think this may have biased the statistics?

Let me put it this way: I know who is in there on an almost daily basis. Most are smokers - some are non-smokers. Hence, not all non-smokers walk out. Apparently only those who are dramatically opposed to smoke walk out. So - four or five non-smokers walked out and refuse to ocassionally patronize the palce. (One of those non-smokers doesn't even live in Udon anymore so his walking out doesn't mean anything.) If smoking were not allowed - how many regular customers would walk out, and not return? How many regulars would come in only for a couple of beers as opposed to spending a number of hours there?

Surprised your condoning the law breaking. You a policeman too

Wouldn't say I specifically condone law breaking. However, I do know that I break the law a lot. I speed. I drive when I would be over the limit in the States (and did in the States as well...). I sometimes drive my bike without a helmet. I've taken things through customs that I should have declared. Etc. Etc. Everyone breaks the law on a regular basis.

For every law there is going to be a loop hole. You want this one law to be eforced to the letter. You see it only as a black and white issue. In short, you don't care what the consequences of following the law might be to a business.

In every country - those with the money - and are willing to spend the money - are the ones that ultimately make the rules. As for the place in question, it would appear that the ones who are spending the money are smokers.

[beer monkey]

Ok seeing as this topic has changed from Meeting Up to smoking.....(how about a separate topic lee) ??

The fart bits in lee's post was LOL.

The room filled with smoke, Mmm i doubt that it was that bad,and don't they have a high ceiling ?

If in doubt Go lunch times/Morning brekky, i did'nt notice even a faint wiff of ciggie smoke.

The Thai food was great (what we had)

The falang food was great