Smoking or not in Restaurants

[lee]

This guy was at one of the local pubs last night, I quietly whispered in his ear that the smoke was bothering me and he gladly put the 800 cigarettes out. LOL!

I also find it a shame that most of these comments that have been made seem to be aimed at one particular place, when there are various other establishments that offer food and are air conditioned.

I totally agree papa, lets not single any place out here, this subject applies to all bars and restaurants.

[Paul]

Visiting a prositute affects only you - not others, Not wearing a crash helmet endangers your life - not mine, not wearing a seat belt applies equally, taking drugs affects you and not me.
But YOU smoking and exhaling smoke which has circulated around the inners of YOUR body and out through YOUR mouth and nose into MY air which I have to breathe in - most certainly does affect ME, in fact YOUR smoking habit affects MY health.

If I have flu and cough/sneeze continuously in your direction - would you be angry - sure you would, but most people would cough/sneeze in a different direction or cover their mouth so as not to inflict others with their germs.

Smoke is different, from a lit cigarette it can drift anywhere which is bad enough and then you also have to endure the smoker blowing his exhaled smoke into the air without a care in the world who it is affecting.

To a non smoker - cigarette smoke can be as offensive as acrid smoke from burning rubber - its horrible. How many smokers would put up with smoke from burning rubber being forced into their lungs. Smokers just dont get it and I believe that a smoker cannot even smell the smoke whereas a non smoker can pick up the smell of cigarette smoke from yards away.

You want to smoke its up to you but please be considerate to those around you who do not wish to share your habit., because as is blatently clear from this thread - many smokers are not really that considerate and would only stop blowing smoke in someones face if confronted by them.

[Paul]

Rumour has it, this was Bangkok Butcher trying to destroy the evidence before being carted off to pay the fine for exeeding his duty free allowance !!! :):)

[polehawk]

The picture reminds me of a gal who was the star attraction at the White Rose Bar in Vientiane many years ago. She would take a pack of cigs, light each one and place them in her.....well, have to use your imagination.

I don't recall anyone in the place complaining about the cigarette smoke.

[hxjohn]

the internet is a powerfull tool and coments posted on any site can sometimes offend others if not the word then the tone of the post
being objective i can see why certain users are trying to target 1 bar in particular could it be that they have enjoyed a great amount of success with there buissness
and have a large following just an idea
on the hole udon thani as lots of great guys who like me are not perfect but wherever you live you must try and get along with each other as life can be so much better if you do

[lee]

Since all the restaurants and bars in Udon don't seem to be following the new law, I guess they wouldn't object to me lighting up a nice big splif LOL!

[BKKSTAN]

on the hole udon thani as lots of great guys who like me are not perfect Embarassed but wherever you live you must try and get along with each other as life can be so much better if you do

So who is offending who?The smoker that insists on ''its''' right to smoke or the nonsmoker that complains?

Easy answer:The one causing the most damage!

[hxjohn]

Since all the restaurants and bars in Udon don't seem to be following the new law, I guess they wouldn't object to me lighting up a nice big splif LOL!

looks like your cat as already been on it lee

[laphanphon]

wow, a 2 oz stogie wrapped in toilet paper.

[Doc]

Some interesting comments. Some very assinine comments. (Of course, what is interesting and what is assinine is in the eye of the reader... )

I don't think that anyone can argue that the "laws" are not being enforced in any restaurant in Udon Thani. That is at the crux of the issue - the ardent and ferverent non-smokers would like to see those laws strictly enforced.

I was in two different venues last night - air conditioned combination bars and restaurants that serve food - and noticed smokers and non-smokers getting along with each other, without any problems. Yes! People - Thais and falangs - were eating whilst others were smoking. No problems at all. Whether those non-smokers will be back again is something that we won't know - but I presume that they will be. I presume that those that were only drinking will be back as well.

A while ago, there was an air conditioned bar and restaurant here in Udon that followed the law about smoking - as long as people were there eating. (When there weren't any food customers, then smoking was allowed.) I, along with the other smokers would step outside on the rare ocassion that we would frequent the place. The owner complained that business really wasn't all that good - both food and drink. Today, the smoking law is ignored and the business is going fantastically - for both food and drink.

Typically - a smoker will vote with his or her feet. If the smoking law is going to be enforced in one venue, they will move on to another venue where they can enjoy their vices and friends. Given all the alternatives here - the smokers will always have a "refuge" some place else. Would I personally give up going to an air conditioned venue that didn't allow smoking? Hell yes.

The problem is that these venues don't want to alienate the smokers because they are a large part of their revenue.

True Paul - no crash helmet, prostitution, etc. etc. don't necessarily harm anyone else - prostitution being the primary exception. But, for the most part (not necessarily prostitution) people enter into those situations with their eyes wide open, knowing the risks associated with that behavior. Smokers are well aware of the risks that they take. However, not all smokers buy into the theories and studies about second hand smoke. I personally find many flaws with those studies, and most medical studies for that fact.

Let's not forget that most of us (or, alternatively, a significant percentage) moved over here to LOS because we are non-conformists. We got tired of conforming to all of the ridiculous laws, rules, regulations and standards of the Western world that are driven largely by political correctness. Now, amongst some of us, it appears that there are some who are wanting to demand everyone else conform to something that they feel passionate about. Demanding something from a non-conformist will always result in some head butting. That is just human nature.

[Paul]

Simple answer here
Forget about what the law says.
What we are talking about is respect and consideration for others despite what the law says we must or must not do.
I for one don't care what the law is on smoking or whether it is enforced - but its up to the individual concerned as to whether his enjoyment of smoking and the fact that it may be offensive to those around him bothers him or not. It appears not.

Secondly aside from the health issue or whether or not passive smoking kills you - the simple fact is I as well as many others simply don't like breathing in smoke. Period

Acrid smoke from burning rubber may not kill you (actually it probrably would) but it is the simple fact that you have to breathe in the smoke whether you want to or not, besides any argument of the side effects. And strange as it may seem - some people would choose not to inhale smoke.

[Doc]

What we are talking about is respect and consideration for others despite what the law says we must or must not do.

Doesn't respect and consideration run both ways - from both smokers and non-smokers? Once again, demanding that everyone cease and desist smoking for one or two non-smokers when other non smokers are not bothered by the smoke is not very respectful.

I for one don't care what the law is on smoking or whether it is enforced - but its up to the individual concerned as to whether his enjoyment of smoking and the fact that it may be offensive to those around him bothers him or not. It appears not.

Why put it all on the smoker. How about: It is up to the non-smoker as to whether his enjoyment of a non-smoking environement may be offensive to smokers, and whether it bothers him or not.

the simple fact is I as well as many others simply don't like breathing in smoke. Period

The solution there is simple: Avoid putting yourself in environments where there is smoking. There only way that there will be 100% non-smoking environments is if the law is enforced - but you don't care if it is enforced or not. Period.

Acrid smoke from burning rubber may not kill you (actually it probrably would) but it is the simple fact that you have to breathe in the smoke whether you want to or not, besides any argument of the side effects. And strange as it may seem - some people would choose not to inhale smoke.

True - buringing rubber smoke could probably kill you a lot faster than cigarette or cigar smoke. The amount and quantity of that smoke that you breathe in is entirely up to you. I for one, if I smell something I don't like, I get the hell out of there. That is my right. It does not infringe upon the rights of those who enjoy, savor or tolerate that smell.

Again, as has been stated much earlier in this thread: If you are a once off visitor to a particular venue and insist and demand that the non-smoking laws be enforced, you are not going to be welcome. However, if you go into that venue on a regular basis and request that people limit their smoking, you will find more people willing to be considerate of you because they know you, and more than likely respect you.

In a different vein - I don't like loud music. Hate it. It also can damage a person's hearing. I can claim that my hearing is fragile, and that loud music is detrimental to my health. In venues where I am known, and the music ocassionally gets turned up to an intolerable level, I can ask them to turn it down and they will comply with my request. However, if I was a first time visitor and asked them to turn it down, they would simply ignore me or tell me where I can go. The simple solution for me is to avoid places that play loud music.

The smoking in certain venues is not going to stop. If you or Val come in and I stop smoking whilst you are there - but everyone else continues to smoke, what has been accomplished? Not a damned thing. At that point I would have to say that the majority is going to prevail.

[jetdoc]

Doc wrote-"Let's not forget that most of us (or, alternatively, a significant percentage) moved over here to LOS because we are non-conformists. We got tired of conforming to all of the ridiculous laws, rules, regulations and standards of the Western world that are driven largely by political correctness."

I for one came to Thailand mainly because I knew that I would be able to have sex with beautiful women much younger than myself. Those that profess that their main reason for coming here is that they "got tired of conforming to all of the ridiculous laws, rules, regulations and standards of the Western world that are driven largely by political correctness.", I would suggest are somewhat more hypocritical than myself. The ability to break/ignore, laws/rules was never part of the thought process in my deciding to retire in Thailand. SEX and monetary benefits were the driving factors and the rest is just icing on the cake.

Back to the smoking issue. I worked for an Airline that was the first one in the US to ban all smoking on all domestic flights. Cries went out "nobody will fly them, they will go out of business, well as you well know that did not happen, instead every other Airline in the US followed Their example. If you ever had the opportunity to clean an outflow valve on a commercial Airliner you would have an inkling as to what is in the PASIVE smoke. BTW Doc have you given up flying since they are air-conditioned places that serve food;o)

[Doc]

Sorry Jetdoc - you gave a rationalization that proves you are a non-conformist.

Those who fantasize about having sex with young girls and do nothing about it are the conformists.

As for the flying thing - flying is a "necessity." Whilst years ago, when I was young and they didn't have jets - it was a "want." These days, it is a "need." So, poor analogy.

If you wish to extend the argument to the restrictive anti smoking laws in the rest of the world - that is a matter of conformists merely being bent to the wishes of others. Many of the conformists have gone so far as to even quit smoking - damned traitors.

I ran a business in the States. They passed restrictive anti smoking laws for businesses and offices. Fortunately, there was a loop hole in the law and I exploited it for all that it was worth. I hired primarily non-smokers but provided a work space for non-smokers. The non-smokers complained that they felt austracized from the rest of the employees and requested to be able to join them in the work area. Permission granted once they signed a waiver. And everyone worked happily ever after.

[Bump]

Well this certainly took an interesting turn.

SEX and monetary benefits were the driving factors

That certainly wasn't a freedom I was not enjoying more at home then here

Personally because of the financial side of life here I have more freedom then I have ever enjoyed before.

Seems like the only time in life I run into a wall here is when another farrang decides, that I should be doing things his way. I wish each of us to enjoy Thailand in the manner that they enjoy and allow me to do the same thing. That would be a nice freedom to have.

The exact same debate in nature is going on at the moment about loud motorcycles in Thai Visa. No one wants to give an inch the non loud guy have decidced anyone that has a loud exhaust has shoud be beaten with clubs.

I realize that some of those on here are very sincere in what they are saying, but how many are more about your wrong and I'm right. I would say right wrong or indiffferent none of us are going to change a thing, so that only leaves who is right and who is wrong.

Me I simply don't care.

[jetdoc]

"Sorry Jetdoc - you gave a rationalization that proves you are a non-conformist."

"Those who fantasize about having sex with young girls and do nothing about it are the conformists."
Doc, Your points are well taken, however the issue is why we decided to come here. When some guy with a pretty young thing by his side is telling me he only came to escape the BS I tend to question his honesty.


"As for the flying thing - flying is a "necessity." Whilst years ago, when I was young and they didn't have jets - it was a "want." These days, it is a "need." So, poor analogy."

Sorry Flying is not a necessity, it is rather a convenience and choice;o) However EATING is a necessity. I think your assessment is flawed.

[Doc]

Sorry Flying is not a necessity, it is rather a convenience and choice;o) However EATING is a necessity. I think your assessment is flawed.

I can partially agree. Sometimes a convenience can make something a need. For example, I could take the bus to Bangkok - but it is, in my opinion, unsafe and unduly time consuming. It is impossible to go down and back in one day and still be rested. Same goes for the train. Hence, to me, flying to Bangkok first thing in the morning and back in the same evening is a "need."

I agree - eating is a necessity. However, there are a lot of venues that one can eat in. A lot more than there are airlines that one can take.

If someone wants to eat in an airconditioned restaurant they are fulfilling a want and not a need given the other alternatives which are probably more "cost effective."

[jetdoc]

Okay lets look at this as needs and wants. we both agree that eating is a need, however most of us chose not to let it progress to that point and instead eat when it is only a want. Since it is only a want I have the option to chose where I eat and prefer to do it where I don't have to enjoy someone smoking. Breathing is a need, and if I wish to maximize the number of breaths I take in my life time, breathing clean air becomes a need also;o)

[humyaoyao]

Very interesting thread,with the bloody mindedness of the "piss on you" smokers a bit of a shock.A little thought for others is not too much to ask,especially when people can walk a few yards to smoke outside.

[laphanphon]

ok, i was advised never to argue about politics or religion. i guess i will now add smoking to that. for me the poll says it all, and the other 10 pages are wasted air, not the opinions, although some are interesting, to be polite. wasted air but clean. it is obvious why laws are made, where they are enforced anyway, is because some inconsiderate people have a tendency to do what ever they want, with disregard to other health and well being.

all the smoker is know respect me as i respect them. i would not put them in a position of harm or discomfort, and they, me.