Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

World news discussion forum
Post Reply
User avatar
JimboPSM
udonmap.com
Posts: 3581
Joined: July 4, 2005, 3:23 pm
Location: Isle of Man / Bangkok / Udon Thani

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by JimboPSM » July 6, 2015, 1:32 pm

The result of the Greece referendum was, in electoral terms, so stunningly overwhelming (and unexpected by "the powers that be" in the EU and the Eurozone) that in my opinion it becomes a game changer in the long running Greek Debt saga, from BBC News:
Greek voters have decisively rejected the terms of an international bailout.

The final result in the referendum, published by the interior ministry, was 61.3% "No", against 38.7% who voted "Yes".

Greece's governing Syriza party had campaigned for a "No", saying the bailout terms were humiliating.

Their opponents warned that this could see Greece ejected from the eurozone, and a summit of eurozone heads of state has now been called for Tuesday....

Full article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33403665
The Greek referendum on the “bailout” produced just about as decisive a result as is possible in a western democracy (unless judged by results in totalitarian states).

Far from creating a foundation from recovery, the five years of austerity imposed by the Troika (EU, IMF & ECB) so far has been a colossal failure of blinkered economic ideology.

The degree of disingenuous of the members of the Troika in promoting the “bailout” is breathtaking as they are more than well aware that it is absolutely impossible for the "bailout" offer to provide any economic recovery to Greece (however, the “bailout” offer would have provided cover for the [mainly German and French] banks and politicians that failed to do their due diligence).

Austerity has produced something analogous to the 1930’s US depression in Greece with GDP having fallen by over 25% and unemployment having risen to over 25%.

See article and video from Bloomberg for more info on comparing the situation today with the US depression:
With the basket of usurious short and long term interest rates being demanded from Greece in the “bailout” providing absolutely no prospect for Greek economic recovery – the result of the referendum should have come as no surprise to anyone with fully functional critical thinking skills.

A chart showing long term interest rates for Eurozone countries from October 2009:
  • Eurozone interest rates.jpg
    Long-term interest rates (secondary market yields of government bonds with maturities of close to ten years) of all Eurozone countries except Estonia. Higher yields indicates that financial markets have serious doubts about credit-worthiness of the state.
It was inevitable that, with five years “punishment” already served by ordinary Greek citizens and with the prospect of it becoming a life sentence, some kind of pushback would result – thankfully that pushback was not of the type previously experienced in France, Russia, China etc.

While it is understandable to some degree that the ordinary citizen should feel aggrieved for being punished for the years of exploitation, corruption and evasion of taxes by the oligarchs and the elite; however, they are culpable to some degree as they did elect the politicians and governments that allowed and/or actively participated in the corruption that had been taking place for years.

An interesting article on the Greek problem over five years ago (May 2010) which is well worth a read:
.... and another article from 2012 on a teensy weensy bit of hypocrisy about Greek military arms spending from a European Country that was its second biggest arms supplier from 2002 to 2011 with over 25% of them (the biggest supplier was the US which supplied 42%).
Sources used for the above include the Wikipedia “Greek government-debt crisis” article:


Ashamed to be English since 23rd June 2016 when England voted for racism & economic suicide.

User avatar
Zidane
udonmap.com
Posts: 7075
Joined: July 6, 2005, 12:24 pm
Location: Udon Thani

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by Zidane » July 6, 2015, 1:55 pm

The economies of Spain and Italy are struggling,themselves......bad news for them and the governments of France and Germany,in particular.
Greek debt.png
Just when I thought our chance had passed,you go and save the best for last.

mickojak
udonmap.com
Posts: 1367
Joined: June 3, 2012, 3:08 pm

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by mickojak » July 6, 2015, 2:10 pm

They should have voted yes. No-one should expect anyone else to pay their debts for them.
The end result will be worse than the austrerity measures.
They will be kicked out of the EU, regain their old currency, which will be quicky devalued as no-one who receives it will trust it.
People who get it will quickly convert it to Euros.
This will cause the country to collapse.
Sometimes you have to take your medicine.
That's life.
Mick

User avatar
bignote1
udonmap.com
Posts: 578
Joined: March 15, 2013, 9:37 pm

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by bignote1 » July 6, 2015, 2:47 pm

I think the stupidity of the No vote means Greeces' future will now be determined by Germany and France. Who in their right mind would want to loose control of decisions which effect your future.

jai yen yen
udonmap.com
Posts: 1363
Joined: August 13, 2009, 8:35 am
Location: Canada, Hua Hin

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by jai yen yen » July 7, 2015, 12:32 am

If they bail out of the euro are they exempt from their debt, if so their creditors don't want that and i think that is one of the reasons they still want to make a deal. Personally I think Greece needs to pay their bills and make the changes for that to be done. They have run their country into the ground and are responsible to get on track.

User avatar
parrot
udonmap.com
Posts: 10925
Joined: March 19, 2006, 8:32 pm

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by parrot » July 7, 2015, 12:54 am

Makes me think back to the economic crisis of 2008......and how things could have turned out differently were it not for the likes of Bernanke and Geithner. For all the howling and claims of a fiscal calamity if they got their way, in the end the US bounced back relatively quickly, and much quicker than countries that advocated fiscal austerity.

mickojak
udonmap.com
Posts: 1367
Joined: June 3, 2012, 3:08 pm

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by mickojak » July 7, 2015, 4:03 am

America is 50 odd trillion in debt.
That's not a bounce back.
They aren't much better than Greece.
Only, no-one's game to admit it.
Mick

User avatar
papafarang
udonmap.com
Posts: 4333
Joined: August 2, 2013, 10:14 am

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by papafarang » July 7, 2015, 6:23 am

other bailouts we did not seem to mind about
Image
Costa del kutchap. Tel 0981657001
Near CH99+V49, 2263, Tambon Mueang Phia, Amphoe Kut Chap, Chang Wat Udon Thani 41250

User avatar
GT93
udonmap.com
Posts: 7848
Joined: June 5, 2009, 9:37 am
Location: Auckland

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by GT93 » July 7, 2015, 8:02 am

Yes, exactly papafarang. It's the same again - irresponsible lending by banks. Sure the Greeks cooked the books but bankers face that all the time besides cooking their own books. They're supposed to be experts, judging by the way they remunerate their staff, at seeing through bulldust.

I think the European Central Bank will have refinanced many billions of private sector debt when the banks didn't want to refinance. In other words - this is partly yet another taxpayer bail out of banks. I understand that the German taxpayers are forking out most of the dosh. No wonder they aren't happy. The UK is so lucky it isn't in the Euro.

I think that the Greeks need to leave the Euro, but stay in the EU, and then in time their economy will bounce back like Iceland's from movements in their exchange rate. If still in the Euro it will probably be decades and decades of austerity.
Lock 'em up - Eastman, Giuliani, Senator Graham, Meadows and Trump

User avatar
papafarang
udonmap.com
Posts: 4333
Joined: August 2, 2013, 10:14 am

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by papafarang » July 7, 2015, 8:18 am

in 1953 Germany was let off 50% of it's debt, including $24 billion it owed to Greece , how about Germany helping out the Greeks this time ?
Costa del kutchap. Tel 0981657001
Near CH99+V49, 2263, Tambon Mueang Phia, Amphoe Kut Chap, Chang Wat Udon Thani 41250

Bronco
udonmap.com
Posts: 80
Joined: February 23, 2009, 3:38 am

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by Bronco » July 7, 2015, 8:55 am

A good read about the truth behind the scenes for those interested in the truth!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/greece-the ... ia/5460508

Bronco
udonmap.com
Posts: 80
Joined: February 23, 2009, 3:38 am

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by Bronco » July 7, 2015, 8:58 am

That wasn't the link I copied.Let me try this.

Every single mainstream media has the following narrative for the economic crisis in Greece: the government spent too much money and went broke; the generous banks gave them money, but Greece still can’t pay the bills because it mismanaged the money that was given. It sounds quite reasonable, right?

Except that it is a big fat lie … not only about Greece, but about other European countries such as Spain, Portugal, Italy and Ireland who are all experiencing various degrees of austerity. It was also the same big, fat lie that was used by banks and corporations to exploit many Latin American, Asian and African countries for many decades.

Greece did not fail on its own. It was made to fail.

In summary, the banks wrecked the Greek government, and then deliberately pushed it into unsustainable debt … while revenue-generating public assets were sold off to oligarchs and international corporations. The rest of the article is about how and why.

If you are a fan of mafia movies, you know how the mafia would take over a popular restaurant. First, they would do something to disrupt the business – stage a murder at the restaurant or start a fire. When the business starts to suffer, the Godfather would generously offer some money as a token of friendship. In return, Greasy Thumb takes over the restaurant’s accounting, Big Joey is put in charge of procurement, and so on. Needless to say, it’s a journey down a spiral of misery for the owner who will soon be broke and, if lucky, alive.

Now, let’s map the mafia story to international finance in four stages.

Stage 1: The first and foremost reason that Greece got into trouble was the “Great Financial Crisis” of 2008 that was the brainchild of Wall Street and international bankers. If you remember, banks came up with an awesome idea of giving subprime mortgages to anyone who can fog a mirror. They then packaged up all these ticking financial bombs and sold them as “mortgage-backed securities” for a huge profit to various financial entities in countries around the world.

A big enabler of this criminal activity was another branch of the banking system, the group of rating agencies – S&P, Fitch and Moody’s – who gave stellar ratings to these destined-to-fail financial products. Unscrupulous politicians such as Tony Blair joined Goldman Sachs and peddled these dangerous securities to pension funds and municipalities and countries around Europe. Banks and Wall Street gurus made hundreds of billions of dollars in this scheme.

But this was just Stage 1 of their enormous scam. There was much more profit to be made in the next three stages!

Stage 2 is when the financial time bombs exploded. Commercial and investment banks around the world started collapsing in a matter of weeks. Governments at local and regional level saw their investments and assets evaporate. Chaos everywhere!

Vultures like Goldman Sachs and other big banks profited enormously in three ways: one, they could buy other banks such as Lehman brothers and Washington Mutual for pennies on the dollar. Second, more heinously, Goldman Sachs and insiders such as John Paulson (who recently donated $400 million to Harvard) had made bets that these securities would blow up. Paulson made billions, and the media celebrated his acumen. (For an analogy, imagine the terrorists betting on 9/11 and profiting from it.) Third, to scrub salt in the wound, the big banks demanded a bailout from the very citizens whose lives the bankers had ruined! Bankers have chutzpah. In the U.S., they got hundreds of billions of dollars from the taxpayers and trillions from the Federal Reserve Bank which is nothing but a front group for the bankers.

In Greece, the domestic banks got more than $30 billion of bailout from the Greek people. Let that sink in for a moment – the supposedly irresponsible Greek government had to bail out the hardcore capitalist bankers.

Stage 3 is when the banks force the government to accept massive debts. For a biology metaphor, consider a virus or a bacteria. All of them have unique strategies to weaken the immune system of the host. One of the proven techniques used by the parasitic international bankers is to downgrade the bonds of a country. And that’s exactly what the bankers did, starting at the end of 2009. This immediately makes the interest rates (“yields”) on the bonds go up, making it more and more expensive for the country to borrow money or even just roll over the existing bonds.

From 2009 to mid 2010, the yields on 10-year Greek bonds almost tripled! This cruel financial assault brought the Greek government to its knees, and the banksters won their first debt deal of a whopping 110 billion Euros.

The banks also control the politics of nations. In 2011, when the Greek prime minister refused to accept a second massive bailout, the banks forced him out of the office and immediately replaced him with the Vice President of ECB (European Central Bank)! No elections needed. Screw democracy. And what would this new guy do? Sign on the dotted line of every paperwork that the bankers bring in.

(By the way, the very next day, the exact same thing happened in Italy where the Prime Minister resigned, only to be replaced by a banker/economist puppet. Ten days later, Spain had a premature election where a “technocrat” banker puppet won the election).

The puppet masters had the best month ever in November 2011.

Few months later, in 2012, the exact bond market manipulation was used when the banksters turned up the Greek bonds’ yields to 50%!!! This financial terrorism immediately had the desired effect: The Greek parliament agreed to a second massive bailout, even larger than the first one.

Now, here is another fact that most people don’t understand. The loans are not just simple loans like you would get from a credit card or a bank. These loans come with very special strings attached that demand privatization of a country’s assets. If you have seen Godfather III, you would remember Hyman Roth, the investor who was carving up Cuba among his friends. Replace Hyman Roth with Goldman Sachs or IMF (International Monetary Fund) or ECB, and you get the picture.

Stage 4: Now, the rape and humiliation of a nation begin. For the debt that was forced upon them, Greece had to sell many of its profitable assets to oligarchs and international corporations. And privatizations are ruthless, involving everything and anything that is profitable. In Greece, privatization included water, electricity, post offices, airport services, national banks, telecommunication, port authorities (which is huge in a country that is a world leader in shipping) etc.

In addition to that, the banker tyrants also get to dictate every single line item in the government’s budget. Want to cut military spending? NO! Want to raise tax on the oligarchs or big corporations? NO! Such micro-management is non-existent in any other creditor-debtor relationship.

So what happens after privatization and despotism under bankers? Of course, the government’s revenue goes down and the debt increases further. How do you “fix” that? Of course, cut spending! Lay off public workers, cut minimum wage, cut pensions (same as our social security), cut public services, and raise taxes on things that would affect the 99% but not the 1%. For example, pension has been cut in half and sales tax increase to more than 20%. All these measures have resulted in Greece going through a financial calamity that is worse than the Great Depression of the U.S. in the 1930s.

Of course, the ever-manipulative bankers demand immediate privatization of all media which means that the country now gets photogenic TV anchors who spew propaganda every day and tell the people that crooked and greedy banksters are saviors; and slavery under austerity is so much better than the alternative.

If every Greek person had known the truth about austerity, they wouldn’t have fallen for this. Same goes for Spain, Italy, Portugal, Ireland and other countries going through austerity.The sad aspect of all this is that these are not unique strategies. Since World War II, these predatory practices have been used countless times by the IMF and the World Bank in Latin America, Asia, and Africa.

This is the essence of the New World Order — a world owned by a handful of corporations and banks.

So, it’s time for the wonderful people of Greece to rise up like Zeus and say NO (“OXI” in Greece) to the greedy puppet masters, unpatriotic oligarchs, parasitic bankers and corrupt politicians.

Dear Greece, know that the world is praying for you. Vote NO to austerity. Say YES to freedom, independence, self-government, and democracy. Yes, democracy, the word that was invented by YOU

User avatar
noosard
udonmap.com
Posts: 4091
Joined: April 17, 2011, 4:07 am
Location: Ban Jumpa Udon
Contact:

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by noosard » July 7, 2015, 9:18 am

Greece had a dedt of 100% of it's GDP back in 1995
And probably before that
So they were borrowing money beyond their means long ago

User avatar
noosard
udonmap.com
Posts: 4091
Joined: April 17, 2011, 4:07 am
Location: Ban Jumpa Udon
Contact:

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by noosard » July 7, 2015, 9:22 am

During the 80s, despite membership in the EC, Greece suffered from poor macroeconomic performance due to expansionary fiscal policies that led to a tripling of the debt-to-GDP ratio, which went from the modest figure of 34.5% in 1981 to the triple digits by the 90s.
https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j ... 2980,d.dGo

TJ
udonmap.com
Posts: 1255
Joined: September 9, 2005, 9:16 am
Location: Udon Thani and USA

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by TJ » July 7, 2015, 9:28 am

Well it is all Greek to me. Did Germany, France, Italy, etc. ever expect to recover their debts owed to them by Greece no matter what the outcome?

User avatar
Dublin Tony
udonmap.com
Posts: 123
Joined: October 20, 2009, 4:11 pm

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by Dublin Tony » July 7, 2015, 10:20 am

Greece is suffering from corrupt governments and civil servants going back 25 years or more.
Workers were allowed to retire at 50 with fat pensions.
Even now Greek pensioners get a pension on a par with Germans but 5years earlier and the cost of living in Greece is much cheaper.
I feel sorry for young Greeks or those just starting off with a young family.They are completely fcuked for years and years now.
Once Greece stops getting financial aid from the IMF or EU they say the Greek banks will have to take up to 30% of peoples savings to survive and its all legal for them to do this.
That list Dean supplied about the bailouts for the banks in the west and USA shows what scum these bankers are.They should have there property seized and be jailed for life.

Tony

User avatar
trekkertony
udonmap.com
Posts: 922
Joined: November 28, 2007, 4:25 am
Location: Australia

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by trekkertony » July 8, 2015, 9:01 am

unconfirmed speculation coming out of this mess is that a new currency is going to replace the Euro, by necessity, printed on Greece proof paper.

mortiboy
udonmap.com
Posts: 3104
Joined: April 25, 2008, 8:59 pm
Location: Guildford/Udon

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by mortiboy » July 8, 2015, 10:28 pm

Mai mee tahng !

User avatar
GT93
udonmap.com
Posts: 7848
Joined: June 5, 2009, 9:37 am
Location: Auckland

Greece referendum rejects Troika bearing gift

Post by GT93 » July 9, 2015, 12:58 am

It seems the Grexit story doesn't have an end? Everton might have won another 200 hundred games before this story dies? That might be more than a couple of decades right? :D

The Chinese stock market might, however, focus our attention elsewhere.
Lock 'em up - Eastman, Giuliani, Senator Graham, Meadows and Trump

Post Reply

Return to “World News”