Smoking or not in Restaurants

[BKKSTAN]

We smoked We didn't know about the effect on nonsmokers at the time,nor did we realize how horribly smoking smells .As a smoker,you probably don't concern yourself about a hotel offering nonsmoking rules,but I have stayed in many.As an addict,you probably are mainly concerned about your fix over any other concerns

[farang]

stan it did you no harm smoking, you are 150 years old now lol

[beer monkey]

stan must be in the guiness book of records at that age

[BKKSTAN]

Just because I have felt 150,doesn't mean that I am actually that old Of course on this forum,we have many experts to tell me I am wrong

[ElectrO]

But Doc, your entire arguments have been based on more people smoke than don't smoke.

Now you change it to The owners of the Establishments will change.

Believe me, they will change - everyone has to. If they don't then they will eventually lose business.

E

[Doc]

Yes Stan - I have checked into hotels and was told that the only rooms available were non-smoking rooms. As I have been a frequent guest in those hotels, the hotel was always more than happy to accomodate me and provide me with the appropriate ashtrays. No problem.

And yes, I did stay in a resort last night where smoking was not allowed in the rooms. Yes, I did smoke in the room - some. I look at it this way: I am renting a room, and when I rent something I use it in the manner that I wish to use it.

But Doc, your entire arguments have been based on more people smoke than don't smoke.

The argument has been that more smokers are frequenting the establishments in question than non-smokers.

Believe me, they will change - everyone has to. If they don't then they will eventually lose business.

That is merely a hypothesis that is not based upon any factual basis. Fact of the matter is, the enclosed air conditioned bar / restaurant facilities have been doing a wonderful business without your patronization and other adamant non-smoker's patronization. That will continue, as there are many non-smokers who are not offended by smokers who will also continue to patronize those same establishments.

Once again, it is a system or situation that is working today. It isn't going to change just because of what is being stated on this forum by a few vocal and adamant non-smokers.

[businessman]

Fact of the matter is, the enclosed air conditioned bar / restaurant facilities have been doing a wonderful business without your patronization and other adamant non-smoker's patronization

...so well in fact that they frequently go bust and are put up for sale.

[john2005]

Indeed,it is a classic quote bizman.From the sound of it you would think you could not get in through the door due to the crowds.Crowds at these places there are not.

This thread has been a good help as i have to entertain hoards of smoke averse visitors on Saturday and Sunday and shall take them to TJ's and Sizzlers.

[BKKSTAN]

Maybe it is the Guiness that the smokers can't get away from

[Doc]

...so well in fact that they frequently go bust and are put up for sale.

OK - lets put things in perspective.

Aussie Pub was sold because the owner wanted to move into a larger facility. He accomplished that. It is for sale now due to other circumstances - not a lack of business.

Sports Bar does not fit into the equation because they did not, and do not actively serve food.

All the bars on Falang Alley do not fit into the equation, as they are all, with the exception of the Aussie Pub, out door facilities. The longest lasting bar and restaurant on Falang Alley is Up2U - (excellent food by the way - highly recommend the pork cordon blue) is not enclosed.

MoJos was sold because the owner didn't want to be in Udon anymore.

Irish Clock came under new management because of poor management under the person that built the place. It is doing an excellent business now.

City Lodge was sold to the owner of the Irish Clock - but does not qualify in the equation because it is basically, not enclosed, even though they do have the capabilities of enclosing it. Essentially, they do not enclose it - even in the hottest weather because the air con costs would be out of the realm of being profitable.

Richmond Steak House banned smoking when customers were in and eating at it's old location on the Ring Road. They moved their location where it is an enclosed bar and restaurant and allows smoking. No doubt, much of the improvement in their business is due to their new location.

Steve's Udon in Romyen Village closed, but is out of the equation because it was basically an un-enclosed bar and restaurant.

Going further back in history - Steve's Bar was sold because the owner was tired of putting up with drunks and customers that were bitching all the time.

Horseshoe Bar - not really a restaurant (food brought in from Steve's Bar) was sold for the same reason.

As for all the open air places that have been sold - chalk it up to either poor management, lack of advertising, poor traffic, poor staff or a combination of all of the above.

In short - the lack of non-smokers frequenting a business has not been a factor in any of these places being sold, closed or changing hands.

It is amazing that some of you think or believe that your going out once or twice a week for a bit of a meal and maybe a couple of drinks are so powerful that the loss of your business is going to be a deciding factor in whether a place stays open or closed here in Udon - or for that matter, any place else in the world. The word "arrogance" does come to mind briefly... =D>

[john2005]

It is very tempting to believe you have been on the sauce already.

A myriad of excuses do not disguise the fact that someone in business is looking to make piles of cash.When the cash is not forecoming in large enough quantities then some secondary factor like "bitching customers" etc becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.If they were making money hand over fist then "i dont want to live here anymore" or "they keep getting drunk" would not be a factor.

[Doc]

It is very tempting to believe you have been on the sauce already.

No - not on the sauce ---- yet. Going to be going out and meeting other smoking friends at our favorite establishment. =D>

A myriad of excuses do not disguise the fact that someone in business is looking to make piles of cash.When the cash is not forecoming in large enough quantities then some secondary factor like "bitching customers" etc becomes the straw that breaks the camel's back.If they were making money hand over fist then "i dont want to live here anymore" or "they keep getting drunk" would not be a factor.

=D>[/quote]

Come on John! What are you smoking? You are pulling some dramatic assumptions out of the air.

I sold a very profitable business with 12 employees that I started 12 years previously in the States four years ago to move over here and take it easy. Yes - I was making piles of cash - and was able to keep the majority of it because of favorable tax laws. Business was getting better each fiscal year. So, that is one flaw in your argument.

I personally know each person that has sold the bar and restaurants that I mentioned in my previous post. Have known them for many years in most cases.

A quick primer in Udon Business 101 for you John. When you talk about a successful business - as they have been talked about in this thread and some others - the main focus is on the host or hosts. A bar and restaurant is typically open from 8 AM to 11 PM - or longer if there are enough drunks in the place to keep it open later. (An yes - I would freely admit to being one of those "drunks" that have kept places open longer than their stated closing times.)

So, figure at least 16 hours a day, 7 days a week and open approximately 360 days a year. Burn out after doing that a few years, I can assure you.

So, you are there - and you notice that when you do take a vacation for a week or so that the business drops off because you aren't there - that tells you that the business is controlling you, and you are not controlling the business. So - you spent maybe 200,000 Baht opening the place up and then a few years later you can sell it for 1 to 2 million Baht - why the hell not? You didn't come over here to work like a dog 7 days a week and put up with a bunch of tourists that have little or no respect for anything.

You can put any spin on it that you want - but the bottom line is that it is not the non-smokers that are forcing bars and restaurants to go out of business. When the "local non-smoking fanatics" start dropping 10 to 20,000 Baht a week in local bars and restaurants then you might have something.

[ElectrO]

And yes, I did stay in a resort last night where smoking was not allowed in the rooms. Yes, I did smoke in the room - some. I look at it this way: I am renting a room, and when I rent something I use it in the manner that I wish to use it.

Thats great, you endorse doing what you want, when it is prohibited. Well done. I wish more people thought like you did.

Believe me, they will change - everyone has to. If they don't then they will eventually lose business.

That is merely a hypothesis that is not based upon any factual basis.

It isnt a hypoyhesis, fact is you will die slow and painfully like many other smokers (albeit not all) and then when you and the others die because your arrogance and ignorance towards everyone else, then things will change.

[ElectrO]

[
I personally know each person that has sold the bar and restaurants that I mentioned in my previous post. Have known them for many years in most cases.

So maybe its your sound advice that has made them lose business, or maybe because you smoke their, and all these hordes of people in udon who don't smoke won't go there.

Just a thought...

E

[Doc]

So maybe its your sound advice that has made them lose business, or maybe because you smoke their, and all these hordes of people in udon who don't smoke won't go there.

Just a thought...

E

Sigh....

My daddy always told me not to argue with a fool.

I can appreciate that advice at times like this.

[pastapapa]

Come on guys, here we are on the 15th page and we are still hearing the same old thing.
My parents warned me about the dangers of smoking when I was 13 years old, my doctor is always telling me the dangers of smoking. Every packet you buy shows me what can happen if you are a smoker. Did I listen to these people "no" but I really wish that I had. Smoking must be one of the hardest habits to kick. As I have posted before I sympathise with you non smokers, even being a smoker if I get into a car where someone has been smoking I can smell it. Please do not carry on about this, it is getting tired now and I am sure that all us smokers appreciate the fact that it is a lepers disease. Also as posted before you are free to eat and drink where ever you want to, the same as I am, if I choose not to go somewhere for what ever reason, I do not go, but I will not go around spouting of about it.
75 percent of the places that you would go to eat here in Thailand, you are quite likely to be endangering yourself in some form, be it carbon monoxide or fly squats or badly kept food.
So please if you do not feel safe at these places, don't go but don't keep bleeting about it.

[ElectrO]

Well if you are serious about quitting then I recommend you this.

The Only Way to Stop Smoking Permanently

Click Here

Guaranteed to stop smoking.....

E

[arjay]

You can put any spin on it that you want - but the bottom line is that it is not the non-smokers that are forcing bars and restaurants to go out of business. When the "local non-smoking fanatics" start dropping 10 to 20,000 Baht a week in local bars and restaurants then you might have something.

Maybe they will, maybe they will. There's a lot of them out there, just waiting for the smoke to clear!! Clearly they are "dropping it" elsewhere at the moment.

You seem to think that they are all staying at home, because they are not in the same place as you ( I wonder why??). Have you not considered that they are out there, at other places, - maybe outdoor places - where there is no smoke, - such as the Night Market, the Beer Gardens etc where there is little or less smoke.



If I may repeat a previous quote:

The erroneously emotive and misleading assertion that businesses will lose customers and revenue if they ban smoking in their bars/restaurants, is further refuted in the following extract from Wikipedia:

Effects on businesses

Although one of the most common sources of resistance to bans comes from businesses concerned that they will suffer financial losses due to lost customers, research seems to offer them some reassurances.

Ireland's Office of Tobacco Control website indicates that "An evaluation of the official hospitality sector data shows there has been no adverse economic effect from the introduction of this measure (the March 2004 national ban on smoking in bars, restaurants, etc). Bar the most significant quarterly increase in employment since the second quarter of 2002."[26] Thus, even in a country with a relatively high percentage of smokers, the smoking ban did not seem to hurt business in bars or restaurants.

In the USA, smokers and hospitality businesses initially argued that businesses would suffer from smoking bans. Some restaurateurs argued that smoking bans would increase the rate of dine and dashes where patrons declare they are stepping outside to smoke, while their intent is to leave. Others have countered that even if this occurred it could decrease the leisure (non-eating) time spent in the restaurants, resulting in increased turn-over of tables, which could actually benefit total sales. The experiences of Delaware, New York, California, and Florida have shown that businesses are generally not hurt, and that many hospitality businesses actually show increased revenues. According to the 2004 Zagat Survey, which polled nearly 30,000 New York City restaurant patrons, by a margin of almost 6 to 1, respondents said that they eat out more often now because of the city's smoke-free policy[27]. A 2006 US surgeon general review[28] of studies suggests that business may actually improve[29]. Thus, research generally indicates that business incomes are stable (or even improved) after smoking bans are enacted, and many customers appreciate the improved air quality.

In 2003 New York City amended its antismoking law to include all restaurants and bars, including those in private clubs, making it one of the toughest in the nation. The city's Department of Health found in a 2004 study that air pollution levels had decreased sixfold in bars and restaurants after the ban went into effect, and that New Yorkers had reported less secondhand smoke in the workplace. The study also found the city's restaurants and bars prospered despite the smoking ban, with increases in jobs, liquor licenses and business tax payments.[30] A 2006 study by the state of New York found similar results.[31]

There's a lot of fact and logic out there Doc, (that contradicts your viewpoints), and that you're "blowing smoke in the face of"!!

So yes, perhaps it is time for the local landlords and restauranteurs to give smokers "the boot", or at least cater for non-smokers, and to look forward to a new era of prosperity as the non-smokers "flock" back to their establishments!!

I think the reason this thread has dragged on so long (and not burnt out!! ) is that some people won't realise or accept that there are two sides to everything, and insist that only their view is the right one and should prevail, and when in fact it is in the minority.

[Bigthaifamily]

This thread does make me smile when i read it.

You have the smokers moaning that it goes on forever and yet they keep posting themselves and huge long posts at that full of padding and no facts.Doc seems to think the longer the post the more convincing the argument when its just plain waffle.According to him the average smoker spends 1500 to 3000 Baht a night.Big spenders and yet they scratch around in a school room all day for a few hundred Baht.Hmmm,dont add up at all.

[Doc]

Big spenders and yet they scratch around in a school room all day for a few hundred Baht.Hmmm,dont add up at all.

Some teachers are smokers - some are not.

The vast majority of teachers that smoke - or do not smoke - are not out every night.

Some teachers here teach for something to do - not because they need the money. They have other income from their home countries. The teachers that are relying on their teaching income typically don't go out except for maybe once or twice a month.

The bottom line is still this: Smoking is allowed in the majority of enclosed bar and restaurant establishments not only in Udon Thani - but throughout Thailand. If you don't like the smoke in those establishments, then find someplace else to eat.