I'm not a big fan of Ben Carson.....for as smart as the man obviously is, I disagree with most of his stances....gun control, abortion, same sex marriage among other issues.
In the past few weeks he's made comments about how one of the first stages of tyranny is gun control. Take the guns away from the people and the government can run amuck.......as Hitler did (as Ben Carson puts it).
So that got me to thinking.......what's happening in a place like Australia? Now that Australia has had some semblance of gun control for 20 or so years, why aren't the tyrants moving in and wrecking havoc? I think I know the answer.......and hope Carson will have to answer that question in one of the upcoming debates. In the meantime, I thought I'd throw it out to our Australian audience for their input. Anyone seeing any evidence of tyranny in The Land Down Under?
Australians Rise Up?
Australians Rise Up?
Just watch the news sometime.
Crazy nutters are everywhere.
Crazy nutters are everywhere.
Australians Rise Up?
Agree. But tyranny is a whole different can of worms.bluejets wrote:Just watch the news sometime.
Crazy nutters are everywhere.
Australians Rise Up?
Australia and NZ have firearm control laws which have been around for donkeys's years in differing degrees.
These laws controls who can own firearms, how they kept and what type of firearms are available
These laws controls who can own firearms, how they kept and what type of firearms are available
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Nong Bua Dave
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Australians Rise Up?
Australia is a "nanny state" these days, where there is a law or some sort of control, for just about anything and everything.
However, as Noosard points out, there have always been controls on firearms, from what sort you can legally own (for instance, pistols have always been outlawed, for all but police, certain security people, and for sports), to how you can use them.
Then, in the 1980s and 1990s when there were some crazies who perpetrated mass shootings, laws were further tightened.There was also an amnesty, where mountains of legal and illegal firearms were chucked on the bonfire.
But, most importantly, the "right to bear arms" was never in our constitution. Consequently is has never been a "guiding principle" in how things are done - thank goodness for that!
However, as Noosard points out, there have always been controls on firearms, from what sort you can legally own (for instance, pistols have always been outlawed, for all but police, certain security people, and for sports), to how you can use them.
Then, in the 1980s and 1990s when there were some crazies who perpetrated mass shootings, laws were further tightened.There was also an amnesty, where mountains of legal and illegal firearms were chucked on the bonfire.
But, most importantly, the "right to bear arms" was never in our constitution. Consequently is has never been a "guiding principle" in how things are done - thank goodness for that!
Australians Rise Up?
Carson has pretty much said the Holocaust might not have happened if the people of Germany were armed......and intimated that such tyranny could happen in the US if guns were taken away.
I think Australia stands as a good example of how life goes on (literally) if there are fewer guns in the public's hands.
Someday......maybe if'n'when the public can view for themselves (rather than just read about it) what 20+ elementary students look like huddled in a corner in a mass of blood.....maybe then they'll say 'enough'.
I think Australia stands as a good example of how life goes on (literally) if there are fewer guns in the public's hands.
Someday......maybe if'n'when the public can view for themselves (rather than just read about it) what 20+ elementary students look like huddled in a corner in a mass of blood.....maybe then they'll say 'enough'.
Australians Rise Up?
Although there are fairly strict gun controls in Australia and New Zealand (although a reporter in NZ was able to obtain a gun quite easily which has upset quite a few of the parliamentarians), neither country has been exempt from mass killings in the past. Fortunately these have been very isolated incidents but one never knows if there is a person out there with psychiatric problems who decides to perform such a heinous crime.
I don't think there is an answer for the States where a lot of people reserve the right to bear arms. Even if you introduced strict gun control measures it still wouldn't prevent mass killings. Part and parcel of living with the human race.
Personally I doubt if tyranny would take over if the populous of the States wasn't armed due to the masses being, in general, well educated. The powers that be would instigate measures to prevent the overthrow of the state.
I don't think there is an answer for the States where a lot of people reserve the right to bear arms. Even if you introduced strict gun control measures it still wouldn't prevent mass killings. Part and parcel of living with the human race.
Personally I doubt if tyranny would take over if the populous of the States wasn't armed due to the masses being, in general, well educated. The powers that be would instigate measures to prevent the overthrow of the state.
Australians Rise Up?
tataw wrote: by tataw » October 26, 2015, 1:34 pm
Although there are fairly strict gun controls in Australia and New Zealand (although a reporter in NZ was able to obtain a gun quite easily which has upset quite a few of the parliamentarians), neither country has been exempt from mass killings in the past. Fortunately these have been very isolated incidents but one never knows if there is a person out there with psychiatric problems who decides to perform such a heinous crime.
I don't think there is an answer for the States where a lot of people reserve the right to bear arms. Even if you introduced strict gun control measures it still wouldn't prevent mass killings. Part and parcel of living with the human race.
Personally I doubt if tyranny would take over if the populous of the States wasn't armed due to the masses being, in general, well educated. The powers that be would instigate measures to prevent the overthrow of the state.
Since Australia changed it's gun laws after Port Arthur there hasn't been any massacre's, so I will presume twenty years later the new gun laws worked.
Australians Rise Up?
Carson is a donkey
That is crap about if the people were armed the holocaust wouldn't of happened
The army rolls into town would the locals fight them
I doubt it not when their own armies didn't defend them
That is crap about if the people were armed the holocaust wouldn't of happened
The army rolls into town would the locals fight them
I doubt it not when their own armies didn't defend them
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Laan Yaa Mo
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Australians Rise Up?
You can get a good idea of the violence inherent in Australians by watching the brilliant show, Wentworth. It does not take much to set the ladies off be it Jacks, Franky or Red and numerous others. The guards have a tendency toward violence too.
You only pass through this life once, you don't come back for an encore.
Australians Rise Up?
Violent maybe......but murder rate is 1.3 per 100k versus 5 per 100k in the US versus 1.0 in the UK.
Australians Rise Up?
Coxo, while I agree there hasn't been a massacre on the magnitude of Port Arthur, there has still been people murdered by guns (of which 2 involved more than 1 victim). Mind you if you put that in context to the States, or even Thailand, then I'd say Oceania is a far safer place to live.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _Australia
Australians Rise Up?
tataw wrote: by tataw » October 27, 2015, 2:22 am
Coxo, while I agree there hasn't been a massacre on the magnitude of Port Arthur, there has still been people murdered by guns (of which 2 involved more than 1 victim). Mind you if you put that in context to the States, or even Thailand, then I'd say Oceania is a far safer place to live.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_m ... _Australia
That would be more domestic violence or gang type murder, the assailants knowing the victims, here we are talking about random massacres where a lunatic shots anything that moves for no reason.
Australians Rise Up?
I think the Mind set is different. Americans are brought up to believe in the right to bear Arms, and if that were taken away they would feel violated. In Australia we never had that right, so after the Buy Back very few felt persecution of any kind. Me thinks it's too late to convince Americans there is a better way ... jmo .. This may also be another problem .... Watching too many violent Movies 
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/nm- ... &ocid=iehp
http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/nm- ... &ocid=iehp-
marjamlew
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Australians Rise Up?
Too true blue. Whaddayareckon?
Australia: an American's view
Interesting set of observations from a visitor from the other side of the Pacific.'Value what you have and don't give it away.' There's a lot to admire about Australia, especially if you're a visiting American, says David Mason. More often than you might expect, Australian friends patiently listening to me enthuse about their country have said, ''We need outsiders like you to remind us what we have.'' So here it is - a small presumptuous list of what one foreigner admires in Oz.
1... Health care. I know the controversies, but basic national health care is a gift. In America, medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. The drug companies dominate politics and advertising.
Obama is being crucified for taking halting baby steps towards sanity. You can't turn on the telly without hours of drug advertisements - something I have never yet seen here. And your emphasis on prevention - making cigarettes less accessible, for one - is a model.
2... Food. Yes, we have great food in America too, especially in the big cities.
But your bread is less sweet, your lamb is cheaper, and your supermarket vegetables and fruits are fresher than ours.
Too often in my country an apple is a ball of pulp as big as your face.
The dainty Pink Lady apples of Oz are the juiciest I've had. And don't get me started on coffee.
In American small towns it tastes like water flavoured with burnt dirt, but the smallest shop in the smallest town in Oz can make a first-rate latte.
I love your ubiquitous bakeries, your hot-cross buns. Shall I go on?
3... Language. How do you do it?
The rhyming slang and Aboriginal place names like magic spells.
Words that seem vaguely English yet also resemble an argot from another planet.
I love the way institutional names get turned into diminutives - Vinnie's and Salvos - and absolutely nothing's sacred.
Everything's an opportunity for word games and everyone's a nickname.
Lingo makes the world go round.
It's the spontaneous wit of the people that tickles me most.
Late one night at a barbie my new mate Suds remarked, ''Nothing's the same since 24-7.'' Amen.
4... Free-to-air TV. In Oz, you buy a TV, plug it in and watch some of the best programming I've ever seen - uncensored.
In America, you can't get diddly-squat without paying a cable or satellite company heavy fees.
In Oz a few channels make it hard to choose.
In America, you've got 400 channels and nothing to watch.
5... Small shops. Outside the big cities in America corporations have nearly erased them.
Identical malls with identical restaurants serving inferior food.
Except for geography, it's hard to tell one American town from another.
The ''take-away'' culture here is wonderful.
Human encounters are real - stirring happens, stories get told.
The curries are to die for. And you don't have to tip!
6... Free camping. We used to have this too, and I guess it's still free when you backpack miles away from the roads.
But I love the fact that in Oz everyone owns the shore and in many places you can pull up a camper van and stare at the sea for weeks.
I love the ''primitive'' and independent campgrounds, the life out of doors.
The few idiots who leave their stubbies and rubbish behind in these pristine places ought to be transported in chains.
7... Religion. In America, it's everywhere - especially where it's not supposed to be, like politics.
I imagine you have your Pharisees too, making a big public show of devotion, but I have yet to meet one here.
8... Roads. Peak hour aside, I've found travel on your roads pure heaven.
My country's ''freeways'' are crowded, crumbling, insanely knotted with looping overpasses - it's like racing homicidal maniacs on fraying spaghetti.
I've taken the Hume without stress, and I love the Princes Highway when it's two lanes.
Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it.
9... Real multiculturalism. I know there are tensions, just like anywhere else, but I love the distinctiveness of your communities and the way you publicly acknowledge the Aboriginal past.
Recently, too, I spent quality time with Melbourne Greeks, and was gratified both by their devotion to their own great language and culture and their openness to an Afghan lunch.
10. Fewer guns. You had Port Arthur in 1996 and got real in response. America replicates such massacres several times a year and nothing changes.
Why?
Our religion of individual rights makes the good of the community an impossible dream.
Instead of mateship we have ''It's mine and nobody else's''.
We talk a great game about freedom, but too often live in fear.
There's more to say - your kaleidoscopic birds, your perfumed bush in springtime, your vast beaches.
These are just a few blessings that make Australia a rarity.
Of course, it's not paradise - nowhere is - but I love it here.
No need to wave flags like Americans and add to the world's windiness.
Just value what you have and don't give it away.
David Mason is a US writer and professor, and poet laureate of Colorado.
Australia: an American's view
Interesting set of observations from a visitor from the other side of the Pacific.'Value what you have and don't give it away.' There's a lot to admire about Australia, especially if you're a visiting American, says David Mason. More often than you might expect, Australian friends patiently listening to me enthuse about their country have said, ''We need outsiders like you to remind us what we have.'' So here it is - a small presumptuous list of what one foreigner admires in Oz.
1... Health care. I know the controversies, but basic national health care is a gift. In America, medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy. The drug companies dominate politics and advertising.
Obama is being crucified for taking halting baby steps towards sanity. You can't turn on the telly without hours of drug advertisements - something I have never yet seen here. And your emphasis on prevention - making cigarettes less accessible, for one - is a model.
2... Food. Yes, we have great food in America too, especially in the big cities.
But your bread is less sweet, your lamb is cheaper, and your supermarket vegetables and fruits are fresher than ours.
Too often in my country an apple is a ball of pulp as big as your face.
The dainty Pink Lady apples of Oz are the juiciest I've had. And don't get me started on coffee.
In American small towns it tastes like water flavoured with burnt dirt, but the smallest shop in the smallest town in Oz can make a first-rate latte.
I love your ubiquitous bakeries, your hot-cross buns. Shall I go on?
3... Language. How do you do it?
The rhyming slang and Aboriginal place names like magic spells.
Words that seem vaguely English yet also resemble an argot from another planet.
I love the way institutional names get turned into diminutives - Vinnie's and Salvos - and absolutely nothing's sacred.
Everything's an opportunity for word games and everyone's a nickname.
Lingo makes the world go round.
It's the spontaneous wit of the people that tickles me most.
Late one night at a barbie my new mate Suds remarked, ''Nothing's the same since 24-7.'' Amen.
4... Free-to-air TV. In Oz, you buy a TV, plug it in and watch some of the best programming I've ever seen - uncensored.
In America, you can't get diddly-squat without paying a cable or satellite company heavy fees.
In Oz a few channels make it hard to choose.
In America, you've got 400 channels and nothing to watch.
5... Small shops. Outside the big cities in America corporations have nearly erased them.
Identical malls with identical restaurants serving inferior food.
Except for geography, it's hard to tell one American town from another.
The ''take-away'' culture here is wonderful.
Human encounters are real - stirring happens, stories get told.
The curries are to die for. And you don't have to tip!
6... Free camping. We used to have this too, and I guess it's still free when you backpack miles away from the roads.
But I love the fact that in Oz everyone owns the shore and in many places you can pull up a camper van and stare at the sea for weeks.
I love the ''primitive'' and independent campgrounds, the life out of doors.
The few idiots who leave their stubbies and rubbish behind in these pristine places ought to be transported in chains.
7... Religion. In America, it's everywhere - especially where it's not supposed to be, like politics.
I imagine you have your Pharisees too, making a big public show of devotion, but I have yet to meet one here.
8... Roads. Peak hour aside, I've found travel on your roads pure heaven.
My country's ''freeways'' are crowded, crumbling, insanely knotted with looping overpasses - it's like racing homicidal maniacs on fraying spaghetti.
I've taken the Hume without stress, and I love the Princes Highway when it's two lanes.
Ninety minutes south of Bateman's Bay I was sorry to see one billboard for a McDonald's.
It's blocking a lovely paddock view. Someone should remove it.
9... Real multiculturalism. I know there are tensions, just like anywhere else, but I love the distinctiveness of your communities and the way you publicly acknowledge the Aboriginal past.
Recently, too, I spent quality time with Melbourne Greeks, and was gratified both by their devotion to their own great language and culture and their openness to an Afghan lunch.
10. Fewer guns. You had Port Arthur in 1996 and got real in response. America replicates such massacres several times a year and nothing changes.
Why?
Our religion of individual rights makes the good of the community an impossible dream.
Instead of mateship we have ''It's mine and nobody else's''.
We talk a great game about freedom, but too often live in fear.
There's more to say - your kaleidoscopic birds, your perfumed bush in springtime, your vast beaches.
These are just a few blessings that make Australia a rarity.
Of course, it's not paradise - nowhere is - but I love it here.
No need to wave flags like Americans and add to the world's windiness.
Just value what you have and don't give it away.
David Mason is a US writer and professor, and poet laureate of Colorado.
Watch Me!!
Australians Rise Up?
Not sure I agree about the TV, and the price of Lamb is through the roof at the moment. Last week in the local papers people were writing in to complain that Fruit was tasteless these days. America must be in a pretty bad place if what he says is true .....
Australians Rise Up?
are you sure he was in Australia, and not PNG
Australians Rise Up?
They only eat people there Maaka, not lamb...........................
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papafarang
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Australians Rise Up?
so true noose, if the germans were armed quite the opposite, the extermination of the jews would have taken just a couple of weeks instead of years, Rwanda , 800,000 people murdered in less than 100 days, by a tyrannical government, but it was not even the government killing, it was the people. already calls for banning muslims from entering america , for a muslim database. this is how tyranny works . you demonize a minority, you make specific laws about them, then you demonize any of their supporters. you put fear into people. tyranny can only work when it is supported by the people. one man can't do it alone. hitler didn't get to power without the help of the people. that shows how easy it is to brainwash a nation. if it all goes south with islam how long do you think the 1% of the American muslim population would last when the 78% Christian population turned on them with their guns ?noosard wrote:Carson is a donkey
That is crap about if the people were armed the holocaust wouldn't of happened
The army rolls into town would the locals fight them
I doubt it not when their own armies didn't defend them
the term self radicalized ? what exactly does that mean ? I thought they get radicalized by watching tv, reading papers, listening to politicians
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