Udon is now an international airport, let them all land here.
Nah!! That would screw up the quite life.
Suvarnabhumi Airport
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izzix
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Thai airport safety plea
Bangkok
January 29, 2007
Other related coverage
* Airlines worried by cracks in Bangkok's airport
* Thai airport safety fears
A Thai opposition leader has called on the Government to urgently investigate safety at Suvarnabhumi Airport amid fears that part of the four-month-old air hub may have to be closed for several months.
Democrat Party deputy leader Alongkorn Pollabutr says the swampland on which the $A7 billion airport stands had not been properly prepared and buildings are liable to subside.
His call follows news that cracks have appeared in runways and taxiways, leading pilots to express fears for the safety of planes and passengers.
Thousands of passengers were inconvenienced at the weekend when water cascaded from leaking pipes in the roof.
Subsidence under the passenger terminal has also led to cracks in glass walls.
"The Transport Ministry will have to decide whether the airport can continue to operate if repairs conflict with take-offs and landings and passenger movements," Mr Alongkorn said.
He urged the Assets Examination Committee to consider action against former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra and former transport ministers during their tenure for damage to the state.
He said he strongly supported relocating domestic flights and some low-cost airlines to the old Don Muang airport.
AAP
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izzix
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SUVARNABHUMI
Decision today on shifting of flights
Theera says services will be affected; Don Muang likely to be recommissioned
The immediate fate of the troubled Suvar-nabhumi Airport will be decided at a top-
level meeting headed
by Transport Minister Theera Haocharoen today.
It may elect to transfer some flights back to the decommissioned Bangkok International Airport at Don Muang.
The multi-billion-baht new airport has suffered a series of setbacks disrupting services over recent days.
"We have to admit that the repair of Suvarnabhumi Airport taxiways and runways will affect services," Theera said yesterday.
He believes recommissioning Don Muang will ease air-traffic congestion at Suvarnabhumi.
Last week, it was confirmed that Suvarnabhumi has cracks on runways and taxiways. On Thursday, repair work forced some flights into holding patterns over the airport and others to refuel at U-Tapao airfield in Chon Buri.
As many as 11 aerobridges at Suvarnabhumi Airport cannot be used owing to cracks on their
surfaces and partial cave-ins on a runway.
Temporary repairs have commenced.
Tortrakul Yommanak is leading an investigation into the problems and has estimated that permanent repairs could take as long as one year.
The Tortrakul-led probe is expected to conclude the causes within two weeks. Tortrakul is a board member of Airports of Thailand (AOT).
According to a Transport Ministry source, the AOT board had already approved the transfer of some flights back to Don Muang.
The old airport was closed to commercial traffic once Suvarnab-humi Airport was fully operational.
"The AOT-approved plan allows point-to-point domestic flights to return to Don Muang. The transfer of services is not mandatory. Each airline can choose to transfer back to the old airport, or not," the source said yesterday.
Bangkok Airways and Thai AirAsia are willing to return.
The image of Suvarnabhumi has suffered serious blows time and again since its opening.
On Saturday, water was discovered leaking into the passenger terminal from broken pipes.
Reports said domestic aviation authorities have refused to extend an international safety certificate.
They said the Department of Civil Aviation decided on Friday not to renew the airport's interim safety certificate that expired on Thursday.
The airport can, however, continue to operate without the licence.
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beer monkey
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THAI ready to move flights to Don Muang
Thai Airways International (THAI) is prepared to transfer some flights from Suvarnabhumi Airport back to the old Bangkok international airport at Don Muang as soon as one month from now, according to THAI President Apinan Sumanaseni, but the national carrier would find it more suitable period to move in late March.
Thailand's Ministry of Transport and other agencies concerned --including the Civil Aviation Department and the Airports of Thailand (AOT) agreed Monday to transfer domestic flights without ongoing connections to Bangkok's former international airport at Don Muang.
The service transfer, on a voluntary basis, is due both to congestion and problems with taxiways and runways at the four-month old Suvarnabhumi Airport which resulted in the closing of some areas for heavy repair work.
The ministry will submit the proposal for Cabinet approval next week.
Mr. Apinan said that THAI is ready to comply with the government's policy as some flights would be able to shift services. However, some flights, including Chiang Mai-Bangkok, Krabi-Bangkok and Phuket-Bangkok, will continue to serve passengers at Suvarnabhumi as there would be some foreign passengers who may need to connect to international flights, he said.
The national carrier chief added that the company has started to plan the relocation of some equipment to Don Muang. However, he said the cost will not be high as some divisions are still at Don Muang such as Technical Division and some office appliances had not been moved to Suvarnabhumi.
"High on the moving list are ground service transport and Information Technology equipment for passenger check-in," Mr. Apinan said.
The THAI President said that while the national flag carrier may need one month to prepare the move, the most suitable timetable would be late March as the airline change its flight schedule to its summer schedule at the same time.
If the flight shifts are implemented after late March, THAI may have to adjust schedules again, which would cause inconvenience, he said.(TNA)
Can You Dig It Dug.?
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beer monkey
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Suvarnabhumi stays open
Sunday, 11 February 2007
Suvarnabhumi Airport, which cost Bt150-billion, will remain operational while essential repairs are carried out, reveals Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont.
"We'll do our best to ensure there is no further damage to the new airport's reputation. We shouldn't shut Suvarnabhumi down and must find a way to fix its problems while keeping it open," he said.
The statement came after speculation by National Legislative Council member Admiral Bannawit Kengrien that the airport may have to close to allow repairs to taxiway cracks.
A prelimary investigation found that the cracks were caused by a combination of underground water, inferior asphalt and rushed construction
An Engineer's Explanation Of Suvernabhumi Problems, And Prog
At the beach or a river bank, take a handful of sand and hold it tightly in your fist. Now submerse it in water. No matter what you do, the sand will escape and the mass you are holding will become smaller and smaller.
Sand is an acceptable base for concrete only if it is never exposed to water in significant quantities. If it becomes saturated with water, it becomes a liquid as well.
Suvarnabhumi's runways and taxiways were built on saturated soils. Some of this soil, highly plastic in composition, was removed and replaced as it could never be compacted sufficiently to keep it from 'oozing'. However, not all of this soil was removed. 'Marginal' material was permitted to remain. Some of this material should have been removed. In other places and at other times during the prolonged sub-structuring of the area, different medthodology was applied. Some contrators accepted existing sub soils, some mixed new fill in, and some replaced questionable fill. This was done over several years and as of consequence, the substrate beneath the runways and taxiways is not uniform. All soils will eventually subside under load, if they subside at different rates, cracks will appear as well as several other obvious problems.
The use of sand as a leveling fill on top of this questionable substrate is only acceptable if the sand is never permitted to become permeated with moisture. The runways and taxiways are crowned, higher in the middle. At the sides of them there are weep screeds to permit any moisture that may percolate up through the substrates to be carried off by the sand before subsidence can occur. However, if the ditches into which the screeds drain become filled with water, the water will flow out into the sand. Subsidence will be inevitable. During the recent rainy season, all the drainage ditches surrounding the runways and taxiways became filled with water. Undoubtedly, some of the sand beneath the areas has flowed out and voids remain. There are no measures in place to prevent this reverse flow at present.
Can the runways and taxiways as built be repaired? No. Considering the quantity of ground water in the surrounding area, and the uneven and un-uniform substrates, the only permanent remedial action is to remove most of the runway and taxiways, remove the substrate materials and replace it with clay bearing compactable fill. Sand will no longer be required if the fill is sufficiently impermeable. The alternative to this is driving piles through the substrates and, in essence, standing the runways and taxiways upon them as bridges.
The problems with these two remedial solutions is, respectively, finding enough clay bearing fill and transporting it to the airport would be extremely difficult, very costly, and time consuming. The driven piles however, would probably be even costlier. However, unless one of these two measures is undertaken, the problems of cracking and subsidence will never be eliminated. The fact is, you cannot build a live load structure on mud, a swamp. The swamp must be drained and unacceptable substrate materials replaced so the area experiences only uniform subsidence. This was not done in places, and haphazardly done in other areas. The runways and taxiways are doomed.
As for the terminal building itself. It was observed that several AC arc welders were used when the steel superstructures were built. To put it short, terse and succinct: the building must be condemned. Only DC or DC reverse welding is acceptable for structural load bearing welding. With casual inspection this, AC welding, can be noted in many places. The entire structure is unsound and will suffer some catastrophic destruction during an earthquake or severe winds. To contribute to this impending hazard, many of the building materials are not of acceptable construction standards and will become projectiles in the event of catastrophic destruction. Non safety glass and non structural, non re-enforced 'filler' walls and joints but two examples.
Compounding the inherent deficiency in construction, the board of the AoT has complained that they have been unable to get their hands on the blue prints of the terminal building. However, even if all the blueprints were readily available, the actual -as built- construction will never be accurately documented. Undoubtedly substandard materials and workmanship has gone into virtually all phases of construction. This is blatantly obvious to any engineer who takes even a casual stroll through the building. Large patches of mortar may be seen covering over sections of structural concrete walls. Inaccurate alignment of load bearing members speaks clearly of shoddy construction practices. This list is almost endless. In essence, a pristine example of how not to construct a building.
Egress and ingress, a required and carefully regulated safety feature of all public areas has been severely compromised throughout the entire building. A US Fire Marshall travelling through the airport best described: "Plain and simple, it's a fire trap. It's deadly. A building like this would never have been opened to the public in America". To explain his comment, ignoring the choked passageways and confusing layout of the floor plan, simply follow the very basic tenet of public safety. Stand in any area in a modern public building and you will see emergency exit signs and other assists in the event of an emergency in clear view. You have to search long and hard to find even the most rudimentary of evacuation planning, signage and routing just about everywhere in Suvarnabhumi.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... 106145&hl=
IT dont look good for Suvernabhumi
Sand is an acceptable base for concrete only if it is never exposed to water in significant quantities. If it becomes saturated with water, it becomes a liquid as well.
Suvarnabhumi's runways and taxiways were built on saturated soils. Some of this soil, highly plastic in composition, was removed and replaced as it could never be compacted sufficiently to keep it from 'oozing'. However, not all of this soil was removed. 'Marginal' material was permitted to remain. Some of this material should have been removed. In other places and at other times during the prolonged sub-structuring of the area, different medthodology was applied. Some contrators accepted existing sub soils, some mixed new fill in, and some replaced questionable fill. This was done over several years and as of consequence, the substrate beneath the runways and taxiways is not uniform. All soils will eventually subside under load, if they subside at different rates, cracks will appear as well as several other obvious problems.
The use of sand as a leveling fill on top of this questionable substrate is only acceptable if the sand is never permitted to become permeated with moisture. The runways and taxiways are crowned, higher in the middle. At the sides of them there are weep screeds to permit any moisture that may percolate up through the substrates to be carried off by the sand before subsidence can occur. However, if the ditches into which the screeds drain become filled with water, the water will flow out into the sand. Subsidence will be inevitable. During the recent rainy season, all the drainage ditches surrounding the runways and taxiways became filled with water. Undoubtedly, some of the sand beneath the areas has flowed out and voids remain. There are no measures in place to prevent this reverse flow at present.
Can the runways and taxiways as built be repaired? No. Considering the quantity of ground water in the surrounding area, and the uneven and un-uniform substrates, the only permanent remedial action is to remove most of the runway and taxiways, remove the substrate materials and replace it with clay bearing compactable fill. Sand will no longer be required if the fill is sufficiently impermeable. The alternative to this is driving piles through the substrates and, in essence, standing the runways and taxiways upon them as bridges.
The problems with these two remedial solutions is, respectively, finding enough clay bearing fill and transporting it to the airport would be extremely difficult, very costly, and time consuming. The driven piles however, would probably be even costlier. However, unless one of these two measures is undertaken, the problems of cracking and subsidence will never be eliminated. The fact is, you cannot build a live load structure on mud, a swamp. The swamp must be drained and unacceptable substrate materials replaced so the area experiences only uniform subsidence. This was not done in places, and haphazardly done in other areas. The runways and taxiways are doomed.
As for the terminal building itself. It was observed that several AC arc welders were used when the steel superstructures were built. To put it short, terse and succinct: the building must be condemned. Only DC or DC reverse welding is acceptable for structural load bearing welding. With casual inspection this, AC welding, can be noted in many places. The entire structure is unsound and will suffer some catastrophic destruction during an earthquake or severe winds. To contribute to this impending hazard, many of the building materials are not of acceptable construction standards and will become projectiles in the event of catastrophic destruction. Non safety glass and non structural, non re-enforced 'filler' walls and joints but two examples.
Compounding the inherent deficiency in construction, the board of the AoT has complained that they have been unable to get their hands on the blue prints of the terminal building. However, even if all the blueprints were readily available, the actual -as built- construction will never be accurately documented. Undoubtedly substandard materials and workmanship has gone into virtually all phases of construction. This is blatantly obvious to any engineer who takes even a casual stroll through the building. Large patches of mortar may be seen covering over sections of structural concrete walls. Inaccurate alignment of load bearing members speaks clearly of shoddy construction practices. This list is almost endless. In essence, a pristine example of how not to construct a building.
Egress and ingress, a required and carefully regulated safety feature of all public areas has been severely compromised throughout the entire building. A US Fire Marshall travelling through the airport best described: "Plain and simple, it's a fire trap. It's deadly. A building like this would never have been opened to the public in America". To explain his comment, ignoring the choked passageways and confusing layout of the floor plan, simply follow the very basic tenet of public safety. Stand in any area in a modern public building and you will see emergency exit signs and other assists in the event of an emergency in clear view. You have to search long and hard to find even the most rudimentary of evacuation planning, signage and routing just about everywhere in Suvarnabhumi.
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php ... 106145&hl=
IT dont look good for Suvernabhumi
Landing i the swamp lol
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Seaserpent
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I can't see why people complain about the new airport!
I left last Monday and check-in and Immigration was very quick. As for toilets there are more then enough, because they hid the small signs really good so most people will not be able to find them anyway.... And they actually gave the resturants a tiny space in the in a far corner....
But hey if they had Foodland and Homepro it would be the best shopping mall in SE Asia!!
I left last Monday and check-in and Immigration was very quick. As for toilets there are more then enough, because they hid the small signs really good so most people will not be able to find them anyway.... And they actually gave the resturants a tiny space in the in a far corner....
But hey if they had Foodland and Homepro it would be the best shopping mall in SE Asia!!
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arjay
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A quote from the Bangkok Post:
Suvarnabhumi runway cracks safety concern for British MP
Appeal for openness made in parliament
By Saritdet Marukatat
Runway cracks at Suvarnabhumi airport were raised in Britain's parliament due to safety concerns for UK citizens visiting Thailand. Conservative MP Greg Hands, in the House of Commons on Feb 22, pressed Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett and Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander for answers about whether flaws at the new airport would pose a danger to airlines and passengers.
The questions were an indication of the rising international concern since the airport opened on Sept 28. Apart from runway cracks, Suvarnabhumi also has structural problems inside the terminal and elsewhere.
''There are thousands of British passengers landing and taking off from the [Bangkok] airport each week and they deserve to know that the airport is safe,'' Mr Hands said.
The MP, who visited Bangkok last month, said he decided to put the issue to the House to protect public interest of British people at a time when there was so little information about Suvarnabhumi in the British media.
''I think passengers deserve to know about the problems and they can make their own choices about whether they use the airport or not,'' he added.
Tourists from the United Kingdom, which includes England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, are the largest group of visitors from Europe to Thailand. Last year, 850,000 UK visitors came to the kingdom, up from 774,000 in 2005, said the Tourism Authority of Thailand.
He did not get answers from the two British ministers.
But Under Secretary of State for Transport Gillan Merron told parliament on Tuesday that the British government was aware of the problems plaguing Suvarnabhumi, but said they would not pose safety risks to British flyers.
''UK operators are required to have procedures for ensuring the continuing adequacy and suitability of the aerodromes that they plan to use,'' she said.
Though no UK operators have raised safety concerns with Thai aviation authorities, Ms Merron said she believed British Airways, the UK flag carrier, had undertaken its own study and was satisfied safety was not threatened.
Despite confidence in the airport safety and the Thai investigation into the flaws, the under secretary said British transport officials would attempt to hold talks with their Thai counterparts on the issue.
Very dangerous statement.But Under Secretary of State for Transport Gillan Merron told parliament on Tuesday that the British government was aware of the problems plaguing Suvarnabhumi, but said they would not pose safety risks to British flyers.
Imagine there was an accident tomorrow at Suvarnabhumi,
I am not so sure if this under Secretary of state will keep the job
In any case it is nice to see that Parliament works!!!! Democracy at it's best
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wokkawombat
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I left Thaiand via Cobra Swamp last tuesday afternoon. I was suprised my checked luggage was not x-rayed before I checked in but maybe that happens in the bowels of the airport. No exit fee was payable and I could not find the booths to pay if it was payable.
Immigration was fast and smooth and once past the duty free shops it was plain sailing.
The Qantas Club is not open yet but complimentary passes for Louis Lounge were handed out to Club members. Free drinks, food and internet. The showers were located a few hundred metres away in the day rooms and a complimentary pass was issued by Louis. Nice to have a private hong nam...
I was told by tourist information that a airport bus was available (AE1 or 2 I think) from outside and opposite Silom Complex). I would like to report favourably about the bus but after 30 mins and no show I caught a meter cab. The cost was 230 baht plus 40 baht tolls.
No problems with the airport at all for me.
John
Immigration was fast and smooth and once past the duty free shops it was plain sailing.
The Qantas Club is not open yet but complimentary passes for Louis Lounge were handed out to Club members. Free drinks, food and internet. The showers were located a few hundred metres away in the day rooms and a complimentary pass was issued by Louis. Nice to have a private hong nam...
I was told by tourist information that a airport bus was available (AE1 or 2 I think) from outside and opposite Silom Complex). I would like to report favourably about the bus but after 30 mins and no show I caught a meter cab. The cost was 230 baht plus 40 baht tolls.
No problems with the airport at all for me.
John
Gurgle, Gurgle...
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arjay
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Does anyone know which "Island" (Group of check-ins) Nok Air check-in use at Suvarnbhumi, and am I right in thinking that the check-ins are on the 4th floor, and Arrivals on the 2nd Floor?
Also, if possible which Departure Gate/Lounge the Nok flights to Udon tend to go through/from.
I believe Thai Air use Check-In Island/Group A and Nok are possibly in Island/Group "B". Can anyone confirm my recollections are correct, please.
I do realise that this will only apply for the next 4 days, but that's when my GF will be travelling and I want to try and brief her as best as I can.
Also, if possible which Departure Gate/Lounge the Nok flights to Udon tend to go through/from.
I believe Thai Air use Check-In Island/Group A and Nok are possibly in Island/Group "B". Can anyone confirm my recollections are correct, please.
I do realise that this will only apply for the next 4 days, but that's when my GF will be travelling and I want to try and brief her as best as I can.
Arjay at about 5 or more places on the departure level at the end of the islands is a big board that tells you what island your flight checks in on. It is sort of color coded but flashes English then Thai. Look for the yellow color close to the time you are to leave and the rest will come.
Also Nok has a yellow desk on the departure level. One can go to the desk and they will tell you.
Also at all doors there is a security guard and they are most helpful. Doubt if a Thai will go this route as most steer clear of police or guards.
When a Island is opened they announce it in English and Thai.
My point is that it is not difficult if one tries. I do understand how one can be a bit overwhelmed but this is not to difficult. I have been in a lot worse airports.
Try LAX if you want a bunch of rude folks and a totally f up airport.
Luck to the lady and a good trip.
Also Nok has a yellow desk on the departure level. One can go to the desk and they will tell you.
Also at all doors there is a security guard and they are most helpful. Doubt if a Thai will go this route as most steer clear of police or guards.
When a Island is opened they announce it in English and Thai.
My point is that it is not difficult if one tries. I do understand how one can be a bit overwhelmed but this is not to difficult. I have been in a lot worse airports.
Try LAX if you want a bunch of rude folks and a totally f up airport.
Luck to the lady and a good trip.
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arjay
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Stevo, thanks, but she isn't Thai. She can speak Thai, (which is how she and I communicate), but can't read (well a little) or write it.
She knows the English Alphabet so far and a little Thai. That's why I wanted to be able to tell her, the "Island" letter to look for and then to look for the yellow Nok logo, followed by, as you say, the Flight number and words "Udon Thani".
She knows the English Alphabet so far and a little Thai. That's why I wanted to be able to tell her, the "Island" letter to look for and then to look for the yellow Nok logo, followed by, as you say, the Flight number and words "Udon Thani".
