Tor Bor question

[maaka]

Have any of your family had trouble lately trying to change user name on Tor Bor Ha paper, with Tessaban or Amphur.

Papa is 90yrs old, and wanted to change his name over to daughter, but tessaban say No can do, because government say No can do.. we have heard others in the same boat..any of you come across this..

[Stevo]

Maaka, Papa needs to go to the Pu Yai Baan first... Pu Yai Baan will go to Orbador.
It's not the job of the Tessaban to do it which could be why they said 'No can do'.

Good luck Bud.

[maaka]

rodger that.

that was all gobbly di gook to me Old Matey, ( Pu Yai Baan etc ) but will pass it on to her indoors, and wait for her reaction..

her reaction was a puzzled look, and, then ' Nooo can do " followed by ' how long ", and then she walked off...

Pu Yai Baan is village chairman, and Orbador is Tessabaan, so she informed me..

frustrating when first someone says no can do, and no matter what one suggest after that, its always, no can do...but I dont give in easy..

thanks Steve
in town 18,19,20th

[kopkei]

Por Bor Tor 5 - This land is either farm or forest land not under ownership or control of the land office. This land is administered by a local village leader(pujaybaan) who oversees possession rights and boundaries. Sales are carried out under the supervision of this village leader and recorded locally only. This land can't be built upon."
so as stevo says the pujaybaan can do this ...

[deankham]

A friend of mine has built a substantial house on a piece of land in a similar situation and paid s significant sum to have it converted to a chanote....but so far no luck.

[fatbob]

And it all goes back to the land office in Udon, not the local village chiefs, if the missus says no can do then I bet she is correct, as is my situation where I am, I just leave them to it...

[vincemunday]

The junta has been warning people for quite a while that tor bor 5 which is designated farm or forest land must not be built on and that they might (and have) retake ownership, there's a huge case going on at the moment. There was a property offered on here a short while ago by an estate agent that risked the same fate, someone had built a resort on this type of land, exactly what is being objected to by the incumbent government. From what I gather, they will allow a small residence for farmers that can prove they farm the land, any other type of development is risky and the lessee (that is all a holder of tor bor 5 land pretty much is) might lose the land if the government want it back.

[maaka]

thanks for the comments..yes am aware of the status of this type of land, and the high risk involved in dealing with this type of land. its re generating forest type land, which we want to part clear, in a sustainable management way, ( got to throw that in there this days ) fence it, and and run farm stock on it..so far we are dealing in house, family to family via a contract of understanding..seems they want to keep away from local Buana Sarb for some reason...probably because the fellow would snaffle it for himself if he got wind of it..anyway, I was unsure as to what way one goes, to at least get a firmer foot hold..perhaps will chat with our builder as he is chairman of another village, and a nice bloke..

[fatbob]

Stay under the radar and don't draw attention to yourself, if the missus says to stay away from officialdom then maybe a good idea to listen to her...

[tamada]

The junta has been warning people for quite a while that tor bor 5 which is designated farm or forest land must not be built on and that they might (and have) retake ownership, there's a huge case going on at the moment. There was a property offered on here a short while ago by an estate agent that risked the same fate, someone had built a resort on this type of land, exactly what is being objected to by the incumbent government. From what I gather, they will allow a small residence for farmers that can prove they farm the land, any other type of development is risky and the lessee (that is all a holder of tor bor 5 land pretty much is) might lose the land if the government want it back.

Is this what has happened to the development across the street from Index Mall and just south of the water park on the eastern ring road? It looked like a pretty nice development when it started a few years back but according to Mrs tam, there was something shady and linked to Yingluck so it has been shuttered by the junta for a long time now. Only the roofs of the few houses completed near the front of the huge plot are visible over the corrugated iron fence.

It may be simple abuse of tor bor 5 land and they are spicing it up with links to the Shinawatra's?

Unfinished work

[vincemunday]

No idea but what I will say is that where they have reclaimed land elsewhere they have given people a deadline to clear the land and where this hasn't happened they've sent in the soldiers to clear it and billed whoever for doing it. This has got them some bad press but I can't see why, the rules for the various deeds are quite clearly defined and despite what the odd dodgy seller or estate agent might tell you, you cannot build on some types of land, least of all a full blown resort or housing estate and the only true land ownership is backed up by a full unencumbered Chanote. Well done the Junta for protecting the farmland I say, we call it green belt back home, that said we are allowing that to be eroded in the U.K., I hope the same doesn't happen here.

[maaka]

Rodger that FatBob...
its scarlet pimpernel stuff around here Mate

[fatbob]

Rodger that FatBob...
its scarlet pimpernel stuff around here Mate

Being just out of Phen don't I know it, my missus has as little as possible to do with all forms of authority in Phen, most of em are scammers.

[maaka]

copy that FB
we are not far up the road from you..
I cant blame my crowd from keeping away from the Buana Sarb. The things he gets up too. Little empire building.
Its like Nth Korea.. first dad was in, and now his son.
Wish one could ramble on here, as some of the stuff is truely mind boggling, and would let viewers get a feel for the real grass roots.

All in all, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

[wazza]

Gf saying there is a large Thai owned Resort up around Phen way that has been or about to be seized under some shady land grab , its on the local Udon Thani News update FB page etc ( pusa thai )

[Stevo]

And it all goes back to the land office in Udon, not the local village chiefs,

Incorrect... if this is Por Bor Tor 5 land, it is owned by the Government and not under the jurisdiction of the Land Office unless it is in the throes of being upgraded to Chanote title.

@ Maaka,
If papa or your missus has a problem with the Pu Yai Baan (head village man), they can go direct to the Orbador and sort it with him. The Orbador is between the Pu Yai Baan and the Tessaban and it is his job to do this. If you need the contact details of the Orbador for your area, PM me your exact location and my wife will sort it for you (she does this stuff quite often and has contacts).

[maaka]

Thank you my friend for your kind offer of assistance.

UPDATE: we had been told ( though I was weary and voiced it ) that my missus name could go on the Tor Bor Ha slip, not title deed or charnote, as this land doesnt have that, but has a small slip of paper to record the size, and name of person who has USE of the land. They use to pay a tax but not anymore..I wanted the use, and hopefully our name on the slip of paper..we will never be owners unless the government upgrades the status. however, its the use I want, for farming, and to create another income for missus and wee son, and the price for useage suits our pocket. its not a lease, its not for sale, its money for the right to use.

We paid a deposit, but felt uneasy about the future name change, so the missus told the lady we are dealing with, to go tessabaan and have her name, instead of her papas name, put on the paper, ( papa is 90 and could kick the bucket before settlement date ) and when we pay full price next year we can change names to us.. it was a test, before we handed over anymore dosh.. The missus was miffed I wanted extra land before finishing our house.. but heck they asked me to buy a bull of drunk sister to help her, and when where are we going to graze it...?

The tessabaan said no can do, according to the lady, who is not up with things, just an old lady..so then I said ok we need a contract with the family (as well as the purchase agreement ) to be signed by all the family to say they are giving over to us, and that they will not take it back, and further, will help us in the future when time is right to change tthe names..the old lady had spent the deposit so no getting it back, so work with what I had..

she was ok with that, so with guidance I got the missus to draw up a contract overnight, which is no good to nobody but our two families. it doesnt give ownership, only stops the other family from kicking us off after papa dies and the bun fight begins,,

Yesterday before we had given her the contract, she showed up.. you no when trouble is afoot when they dont look at you in the eye...She had been to the ex village chaIrman ( son now chairman ) because she was worried over this coming contract, apparently which the chairman has to sign as well..news to me....he said dont sign anything until the money is all paid...ok no problem dear. dont worry..

From that I assume the chiarman has no problem with the swap of land user, and indeed, when the time comes to pay the full money and he is there to witness it, we shall ask for the name change...failing that Stevo I will come back to you.

I wanted to keep below the radar, but others have let things slip, but we should make it..fingers crossed,,we are both old families in the hood and that has some sway if the chairman wants our vote next time round..

[tamada]

Good luck maaka. It is all a bit of a minefield IMHO.

With regard to inappropriate land use, this may be related but following the Supreme Administrative Court's revocation on June 1 of the Agricultural Land Reform Committee’s order to allow the use of natural resources in areas under land reform for any purposes other than agriculture, PTTEP (the exploration arm of PTT) have had to suspend oil, LPG and natural gas production from their S1 Project that covers areas of Sukhothai, Phitsanulok and Kamphaeng Phet provinces.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/bu ... bI9w%3D%3D

Notably, the DMF (Department of Mineral Fuels) who ultimately license and permit exploration and production onshore and offshore in Thailand, is "in the process of assessing the impact in order to contemplate a mitigation plan."