Gun Control

[Lone Star]

Sorry to burst your bubble tigerryan but its NOT the Brits that have an obsession with your gun laws ........... it's virtually the whole world outside of America, its just that the Brits try a bit harder to get their Prodigal son to see the error of his ways

Americans don't care what the whole outside world thinks or believes. That's been true forever.

PS - America stopped being the UK's son in 1776. We're your daddy.

[Lone Star]

Summed up in a nutshell Lone Star =D> ............. And There is your problem

While the UK followed the EU and allowed them to destroy their country. Yeah, I get it. Best to worry about what others think as they destroy your borders and culture. No one from the UK is in any position to lecture anymore. It's become part of Eurabia.

We don't care because we choose to live as we please -- just like any other people and culture in the world. We decide what we want just as every other society does.

[BobHelm]

While the UK followed the EU and allowed them to destroy their country. Yeah, I get it. Best to worry about what others think as they destroy your borders and culture. No one from the UK is in any position to lecture anymore. It's become part of Eurabia. .

Rather strange (& untrue) thing to say seeing that 87.2% of the population of Great Britain are classified as White, while only 72.4% of Americans can make the same claim & 17% of them are Hispanic!!

[PAPA Z]

So, in England the police are unarmed. The logic for this I’m told is that if the police are unarmed criminals are less likely commit armed crimes.
And there lies the rub; what if the criminals ARE armed?
Our 2nd Amendment’s- The RIGHT to bear arms -
intent was to allow the People to be able to raise militias, if needed, to protect themselves against the government should it attempt to oppress them, as many governments did in the past and still do today. The first thing Hitler did was confiscate every registered weapon of Jews and political opponents under the guise of “public safety”. Those who would not surrender their weapons were executed on the spot.
Hitler disarmed his domestic enemies before launching a genocide against them.
Stalin disarmed his domestic enemies before launching a genocide against them.
I suppose WWII would be the only instance that our British friends were glad gun toting Yanks were there to have their backs.

The Las Vegas massacre was a horrific and senseless act done by one lunatic, as has been the case of many of such shootings over the years in the USA. Again, not the intent of the 2nd Amendment. If you’re not American you will never understand this RIGHT to bear arms given to us by our forefathers. Period. No discussion required. You’re not capable of understanding it.

No gun control measures will ever keep lunatics from doing what they intend to do. We’ve seen lunatics around the world use vehicles to murder innocents. In England recently they used explosives on the underground. Thank God their full plan went awry. Did England’s “fierce” gun control laws prevent them from getting explosives? We’ve seen lunatics stab women in the streets. I, and millions of other Americans own weapons, legally, and none of us have committed such acts of lunacy. Taking away freedoms of law abiding citizens who want to stand a chance protecting themselves their families and their property, because of a number of psychotic lunatics in the mix doesn’t resolve anything. The US is a country of 330 million people. It’s expected that we will have a number of psychotic degenerates in such a huge population.
Again, our British and Aussie friends cannot and will not ever be able to understand this RIGHT to bear arms, as they have never had the privilege to have been bestowed this RIGHT in the first place. Nor, will we Americans ever be able to make them understand it.

[Fatone]

to protect themselves against the government should it attempt to oppress them, as many governments did in the past and still do today.

If Aussies were armed today all the bl..dy rip off self serving politicians in canberra destroying our economy and country would have been shot some time ago

[BobHelm]

Hitler disarmed his domestic enemies before launching a genocide against them.
Stalin disarmed his domestic enemies before launching a genocide against them..

It is a huge stretch of the truth to say Hilter disarmed Germans.
There was a total ban on private arms in Germany after the 1st. World War - imposed by the victorious Allies. That remained in force until after Hitler had won the election. He actually relaxed gun ownership laws in Germany so that just about anybody (other than Jews) were allowed to own guns.

There is no evidence that Stalin enacted any gun laws on Soviet citizens at any time during his leadership. Neither is there any evidence that recent dictators like Saddam or Gaddafi bothered to do anything about private weapons - indeed every adult male in Iraq was allowed to keep a weapon at home under Iraqi law.

[vlad]

I asked a simple Question of how America can stop these massacres and as usual the same excuses amendment this amendment that. The truth is painful to take in but it's your fault with your gun ownership and gun culture. Why do you feel its acceptable to buy high-velocity Automatic weapons? Why do you encourage your kids how to use guns ? in most societies this is hard to comprehend. in other countries worldwide mass shootings are rare in the UK we have had 3 in 40 years, you have that amount in a year? Sandy Hook young kids deliberately Targeted did this change your attitude, NO. So the atrocities will continue with the same excuses. As a final word from me on this subject, you keep stating it's your right to bear arms to defend yourself what about the rights of the Murdered people in Vegas.

[SJP17]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/one-m ... e-america/

Loads of Americans are pro gun control, eventually further down the line it will come into play, nothing stays the same forever, history doesn't lie.

[FrazeeDK]

well, as far as I can tell through the wonders of Google, about 60% of American households do not have guns in them.. That leaves 40% that do.. So, go figure 300 million weapons minus illegal weapons held by criminals into the 120 million or so Americans who own them.... A Gallup poll in late 2016 showed 56% of Americans favor stricter gun laws and 34% favor leaving them as is, with 10% favoring less restrictive. So, in the scheme of things, eventually you can bet there will be more restrictive laws.. In fact, I'll bet that within 30 days the "bump device" to rapidly shoot a semi-automatic weapon will be prohibited.. That's an easy one that even the pro-gun folks can go for... I can also see restrictions placed on owning large quantities of guns and ammo unless you have a "collector's" license.. That wouldn't be much different than having to get a special ATF license/background investigation to own a fully automatic weapon..

[SJP17]

And stop blaming the NRA for this crap. When was the last time any of these deranged killers were linked to that organization? NEVER. The media just uses them as a whipping boy every time some gun crime is committed. The NRA is a group of responsible gun owners who believe in the 2nd Amendment and work hard to defend it. They also promote responsible gun ownership and use.

The National Rifle Association is one of the most influential interest groups in US politics - not just because of the money it spends on lobbying politicians, but also because of the engagement of its 5 million members.

It opposes most proposals to strengthen firearm regulations and is behind efforts at both the federal and state levels to roll back many existing restrictions on gun ownership.

In 2016 the NRA spent $4m on lobbying and direct contributions to politicians as well as more than $50m on political advocacy, including an estimated $30m to help elect Donald Trump president.

Its overall annual budget is roughly $250m, allocated to educational programmes, gun facilities, membership events, sponsorships, legal advocacy and related efforts.

More than just the numbers, however, the NRA has developed a reputation in Washington as a political force that can make or break even the strongest politicians.

It grades politicians on their votes and directs its resources and those of its membership - both financial and organisational - to supporting its fiercest advocates and defeating staunch opponents.

As one former Republican congressman told the New York Times in 2013: "That was the one group where I said, 'As long as I'm in office, I'm not bucking the NRA.'"

Could it change? Gun-control groups, backed by wealthy benefactors like former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, have become more organised in recent years, attempting to match the NRA's political might. As long as pro-gun groups keep racking up the legislative and electoral wins, however, they'll still be individual of the hill.

[mathusalah80]

I will refrain from responding to your post, with it's somewhat contrived logic, and it's unpleasant implied anti-British, anti-Australian undertones. Although I do note note that you consider it is only the British & Australians who lack the intelligence to understand the meaning of the sentence: "Under Amendment 2 of their Constitution, all Americans have the inalienable right to bear arms"' :-" It is comforting to know that you do not include citizens from other countries around the world, of a similar lack of intelligence; just because they express their disagreement with your opinions, on gun control.

I suppose WWII would be the only instance that our British friends were glad gun toting Yanks were there to have their backs.

But I feel unable to allow your fantasy statement repeated above, to pass unchallenged.
Amazing that, 75 years on, Americans continue to shamelessly repeat this fallacy that they came into the war for altruistic reasons, to rescue the Allied Forces from defeat, and save the world.
FACT; For some approximate two years, after the official start of WW11, the Americans happily profited by millions of dollars selling arms to both sides, as the Allied Forces were battered to their knees, and suffered huge losses of life. There were no signs whatsoever from the Americans, during that period, of any intention to intervene in any way, least of all take an active part.
It was only AFTER, and SOLELY BECAUSE OF the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour, AND SOLELY AS AN ACT OF SELF SURVIVAL that the Americans were forced to enter the war.
There is no denying the Allies, and Europe as a whole, were extremely lucky that the Japanese made one of the all time worst war related decisions, which left America without any option other than to join forces with the Allies.
But for that inexplicable action by the Japanese there is very little reason to doubt the Americans would have continued to reap the financial rewards of their neutrality; the Allies would have been defeated; the Germans would have committed further unspeakable acts of genocide, and the history of Europe changed forever.
So please, no more of this depiction of America as a Knight on a white horse, riding to the rescue, in the context of it's entry into WW11.

[Lone Star]

I asked a simple Question of how America can stop these massacres and as usual the same excuses amendment this amendment that. The truth is painful to take in but it's your fault with your gun ownership and gun culture. Why do you feel its acceptable to buy high-velocity Automatic weapons? Why do you encourage your kids how to use guns ? in most societies this is hard to comprehend. in other countries worldwide mass shootings are rare in the UK we have had 3 in 40 years, you have that amount in a year? Sandy Hook young kids deliberately Targeted did this change your attitude, NO. So the atrocities will continue with the same excuses. As a final word from me on this subject, you keep stating it's your right to bear arms to defend yourself what about the rights of the Murdered people in Vegas.

I answered your question. It can't be stopped in an imperfect society inhabited by imperfect people. Those with sinister intent find ways to obtain and use things that are illegal.

High velocity automatic weapons cannot be purchased by anyone off the shelf, vlad. In fact, they're illegal to possess in the US -- everywhere -- without a huge tax stamp and a background check like you wouldn't believe. There are very few in circulation anywhere, and they are REGISTERED, which is not the case with single-fire or semi-automatic weapons.

National Firearms Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

If this nutbag in Vegas had fully automatic weapons, he probably had some back-alley gunsmith modify them.

I don't encourage any children to use guns, but if they want to learn to use one, there are classes and well-supervised ranges for the to attend and practice. I had a nephew who was an excellent skeet shooter and won many competitions. I wouldn't deny someone an opportunity to compete.

Sandy Hook was another nutbag who STOLE the guns he used.

The murdered people everywhere have their rights violated by individuals who abused their right to gun ownership. Just as someone driving in a car and using it to kill people would do. The cars aren't the problem. It's the people driving them.

[Lone Star]

And stop blaming the NRA for this crap. When was the last time any of these deranged killers were linked to that organization? NEVER. The media just uses them as a whipping boy every time some gun crime is committed. The NRA is a group of responsible gun owners who believe in the 2nd Amendment and work hard to defend it. They also promote responsible gun ownership and use.

The National Rifle Association is one of the most influential interest groups in US politics...

Source of your statement?

[SJP17]

And stop blaming the NRA for this crap. When was the last time any of these deranged killers were linked to that organization? NEVER. The media just uses them as a whipping boy every time some gun crime is committed. The NRA is a group of responsible gun owners who believe in the 2nd Amendment and work hard to defend it. They also promote responsible gun ownership and use.

The National Rifle Association is one of the most influential interest groups in US politics...

Source of your statement?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41489552

[Lone Star]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41489552

If you're so intent on demonizing the NRA and following the lead of the BBC, why don't you go to their web site and refute their statements? Find the things that they claim they promote or reject, and prove them wrong. Their web site even provides legislation that they favor or reject and why.

https://home.nra.org/

If you're not willing to do that, then it really isn't that important to you. I could go find tons of anti-gun sources that blame the NRA -- without a shred of specific evidence. Just general statements of blame.

The fact remains that no one from the NRA or one of its members has ever been involved in one of these nutbag mass shootings.

If the law-abiding gun owners were the problem, believe me, you would know it and be able to identify them.

[vlad]

I think this Thread has reached its end. Like previous posters have said we have been here many times and the same excuses are rolled out, the same applies to this thread. As far as I'm concerned i am happy living in the UK where you're not likely to be taken out by a nut job with an Arsenal of guns loaded by his side. In the good old USA its, not a case of if it happens again it's more when will it happen again you have a president that supports gun ownership and shops willing to sell you anything providing you have the Readies. if challenged you use the old It's my right to bear arms card.

[fatbob]

Summed up in a nutshell Lone Star =D> ............. And There is your problem

While the UK followed the EU and allowed them to destroy their country. Yeah, I get it. Best to worry about what others think as they destroy your borders and culture. No one from the UK is in any position to lecture anymore. It's become part of Eurabia.

We don't care because we choose to live as we please -- just like any other people and culture in the world. We decide what we want just as every other society does.

Hmm, we dont care, blah blah, what rubbish, your citizens cannot even go to a concert or school without getting blown away, there is no personal decision there, someone else is making the decision, him with the big military automatic weapon, what a ridiculous statement.

[Lone Star]

I think this Thread has reached its end. Like previous posters have said we have been here many times and the same excuses are rolled out, the same applies to this thread. As far as I'm concerned i am happy living in the UK where you're not likely to be taken out by a nut job with an Arsenal of guns loaded by his side. In the good old USA its, not a case of if it happens again it's more when will it happen again you have a president that supports gun ownership and shops willing to sell you anything providing you have the Readies. if challenged you use the old It's my right to bear arms card.

I agree with you. Everyone lives where they wish to live. If they didn't like it, they'd leave or change the laws. I respect the people in every country to do what serves them best.

[PAPA Z]

Bob Helm,
Here’s a bit of a history lesson for you, since you believe I stretched the truth on Hitler and Stalin:

From its inception, the attempt to regulate the possession of firearms for the purpose of self-defense by the general public—commonly known as gun control dates back for centuries when those in power who had the latest weapons of the day, attempted to keep the masses defenseless for the purposes of staying in power. Let’s take a look at just the 20th Century where gun control has lead to first gun registration, then later gun confiscation, which has ultimately lead to more tyranny by that government.

“If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves.” — Joseph Stalin

Dictator of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics: 1929 to 1953

Date of Gun Control Law: 1929

Source: Article 182 Penal Code

Stalin earned his place in history as one of the most bloodthirsty socialist tyrants of the 20th Century. Stalin instituted gun control during his very first year in power. Then he simply took Lenin’s playbook and exterminated not only those who opposed him, but also those thought capable of opposition. Between mass executions, artificially created famines, slave labor in death camps, and ethnic cleansing, Stalin’s regime is estimated to have murdered over 20 million of its citizens.

“The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to posses arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected peoples to carry arms have prepared their own fall.” — Adolf Hitler

Dictator of Nazi Germany: 1933 to 1945

Date of Gun Control Law: 1928 & 1938

Source: Laws on Firearms & Ammunition and Weapons Law

Hitler was the National Socialist Leader and Reich Chancellor of Nazi Germany. During his horrific 12 year rule, he was not only responsible for starting the bloodiest war known to mankind but also exterminating over 6 million Jews. Like all good socialists, Hitler consolidated power by killing anyone who opposed him. The death toll of his actions who targeted Jews, Gypsies, Russian POWs, Jehovah’s Witnesses, so-called ‘terrorists,’ ‘criminals,’ ‘partisans,” Christians, Slavs, and others is estimated to be 13 million people. This is in addition to the 50 million who were killed as a result of World War II.

[BobHelm]

You are missing the point PapaZ.
Before Hitler came to power in Germany the holding of guns by its' citizens was completely banned.
The gun laws you quote (1926 & 1938) permitted non Jewish Germans to hold weapons. The 1938 law lessened the original restrictions that were in the 1928 law.