Internet forums often a fount of misinformation

[skipvice]

Is this true?

Internet forums often a fount of misinformation about Thai culture

Unless you've been vacationing in the middle of the Amazon forest, it's very unlikely that your ears are not by now full to bursting point with relentless reports on Thailand's delirious censorship campaign.


Even though I disagree with most of this rampant government-driven censorship, recent news has brought to my attention once again the way countless Westerners misunderstand Thailand and its people.


For the past couple of weeks the Internet has been flooded with Westerners (many of whom have never been to Thailand) dictating to Thais how they ought to live their lives, that they should stand up and fight for their rights following the grand example of the Western world. Though their intentions may be grand, they haven't come to the realisation that their notion of a perfect society comes from their own Western conditioning. Before you begin blatantly criticising something, it is wise to gain a little insight about your target first.


The Internet is the largest source of information there is, but unfortunately it is also the source of some of the most misleading information imaginable. Let's start with the most classic Western misunderstanding of Thailand - and that relates to the country's female population. The Internet is full of completely ludicrous one-sided reports about Thai women by Westerners who haven't the foggiest, and anyone who cares to search for some info on the country before arriving is going to be in for one nauseating surprise!


Let's start with the popular Web myth that "all Thai women would love to immigrate to the West". Sure, that may be true for a lot of folks, and good luck to them, but to put all Thai women in the same boat is absolute baloney. Beyond a doubt the majority of Thai women are as happy to live their lives here as they would be anywhere else and do not feel the need to be whisked off their feet by some hunky Western hero. Of course it doesn't take a degree in Thai Studies to understand the source and origins of such a misunderstanding.


Next myth to be exploded: "All Thai women are after a Western husband as the local guys are useless." Now what kind of crackpot generalisation is that? After living in Thailand for over a decade, I can confirm that much of the single male Westerner population coming here is not composed of four-star Romeos.


Then we have another popular myth bandied about by so-called expat experts that "all Thai women are after your money". Again, an absurd generalisation started by some bitter and vocal folks who were ripped off at some time in the past; whether they were partly to blame is a story for another day.


I hate to say it, but much of these gross negative misunderstandings about Thailand come from Western expats, who even though they have been living here for donkey's years, stay completely uninterested in their environs.


Competing only with barstools for the most common source of Mickey-Mouse presumptions about Thai women are Internet forums. Start a thread on most expat websites along the lines of "How come all Thai women love Western men so much?", and you are sure to be bombarded with comments from men with massive egos boasting to the truth of the myths above.


One of my favourite hobbies is to visit a popular drinking gaff and play myself off as a fresh-off-the-plane newbie who doesn't speak a word of Thai and is in search of some information on this new land. Of course, I usually meet loads of fair-minded foreigners who are somewhat knowledgeable about all things Thai, but it's also a certainty that I'll meet guys who sit there supping away on drinks all day, every day, spreading myths about Thailand to every tourist fresh off the boat.


This is devastating in a way, as most new visitors to any strange land are bound to suck up anything they are told by some foreigner who has been in their new country for a relatively longer period of time. Sure, some of what they are being told may be true, but much of it is pure generalisation and ego-comforting myth.


A retirement-aged teacher I worked with a few years ago and I were having a couple of drinks when a Grade 12 female student of his walked by. The teacher, a perpetually sweating man who likely had a few years on the girl's grandpa, said: "Steve, I'm going to tell you something you never knew about Thai girls before. When she looks at me, she sees hope, she sees a future." Of course, I had to bite my tongue to keep myself from replying, "Excuse me for breathing, but I think she just can't get over your resemblance to the Colonel Sanders statue outside the KFC!"


Sadly, many Westerners coming to Thailand fail to search out any decent information on the Thai mindset, system and culture, yet they constantly criticise everything around them. Many, including me, have grown tired of Westerners who come here and endlessly compare everything to the Great Civilisation of the West. They often believe the myth that "Thais love everything Western and particularly American". Well, if you take a careful look you will find that the new generation prefers everything Japanese and Korean these days. And while some complaints about double-pricing and visa difficulties are perfectly justified, when people spend their days complaining day in, day out, non-stop about absolutely everything, it makes a person wonder why they just don't pack their bags and go back to the glories of their heavenly hometowns.


In the Internet age and with a new generation of Thais becoming capable in the English language, a backlash is happening against some of the portrayals of Thailand coming from the West. Unlike in the past when it was only Thais living or studying abroad who interacted with Westerners and came to know some of the stereotypes out there, now a new generation of young locals are beginning to realise what many Westerners here and abroad are saying about them. As a Western blogger in Thailand, I know that due to a lot of pent-up anger over some of the above-mentioned myths flooding the Internet that I am going to be deluged by angry e-mails by some teens every time I dare to criticise their country in the slightest.


However, it is down to all of us on hearing or reading negative reports to sit back and ponder the truth of them before simply jumping on the bandwagon, wearing blinkers and believing every darned word somebody took a minute to type. Let us all hope that through time, insight and analysis, a bridge of understanding between people - Westerners and Thais and other cultures - will evolve. I would also like to see the Western world become more sensitive to foreign cultures before suddenly dictating the importance of their supposed values to the rest of the world.

Stephen Cleary


The Nation


SUPHAN BURI

Stephen Cleary is the co-founder of www.thai-blogs.com.

[banpaeng]

Personnaly, I think he is dead on. Read what is on here. As I said in another post the Thais in the 1970's conpared to now are very aggressive and bitter about falangs. Look on here and see how many times people call the lazy about work, the only thing they are looking for is a falang husband.

[BKKSTAN]

How does a young Thai male get motivated to perform work when he is not in a position to advance to increasing pay and opportunities!Then,not having any understanding of culture outside of his own,he watches foreigners come here a reap all the benefits that he might feel are his.He lives in a society and environment where the women make far more money than he can ever aspire to,possibly diminishing his self esteem as a breadwinner.All this after he has been raised as a spoiled special person compared to the girls

[Aardvark]

Very true Stan. I"ve personally spoken to people who have been told about social security benifits in the west and it works out to twice what a bloke can earn here in a month. So some bloke comes here and starts calling people lazy when thier understanding is that we all sit at home and get free money from the Government.Of course thier going to be angry at us.

[jetdoc]

Although I don't necessarily disagree with Stan's post, I know quite a few Thai males that have risen above the being treated "as special" and are very responsible, productive, individuals.

[BKKSTAN]

You are right jetdoc,I didn't mean to infer that ''all'' Thai males are spoiled beyond correction!I was speaking in a general sense as apossible reason for what some falangs perceive as ''laziness'' attitudes of many Thai men!
All people need motivation and acheivable goals that will enhance their self esteem therefore reinforcing their positive work behavior!

[Aardvark]

Still, refering to the first post about Stephen Cleary"s idea that all Falangs critisise and run down the Thai people is not true. Some critisism is always healthy as long as it is taken in the right context. There is a lot of inovation going on in the World that the Thai"s could learn and prosper from but seem to reject it out of hand as too hard or not right for Thailand and this of course provokes even more critisism. I"m not saying that Thai ways are not right, but some ways need to be reformed. Please correct me if I"m wrong!!

[jetdoc]

"For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." A physical reality that when applied to human behavior is not nearly as precise. When I was in the service I remember that There was no better outfit than the one you are going to, until you got there and then it was the outfit you you left", as said on this and other forums, when talking about change "be-careful what you wish for." I for one prefer to let the Thai's make changes as they see fit.

[cookie]

Aardvark,
I think you are spot on.
Everybody keeps on saying we have to respect the Thai culture and the Thai way.
Nothing wrong with that,
I agree with that,
respect for culture is normal in my eyes;
but there is a kind of nationalistic protectionism ( I am looking for the right words).
There are many examples from history that show that this kind of talk is not productive at all.
Not all changes are good, agreed,
but you have to keep an open mind and you can not lock yourself up from the world and it's evolution and changes.
This topic started about internet forums.
I warned about a week ago about the same kind of thai protectionism by blocking websites. This blocking of Youtube and other websides clearly had a snowball effect.
Even the thai monarchy and its laws. I think it is best I will not go this way so that this great forum will not be blocked,....
I have the feeling that Thai people don't accept criticism any more and use the protection of their own culture and history as an excuse.
I think this is wrong

[banpaeng]

Aardvark, I do not think you are wrong. I feel we are wrong if we try to change it. They have to change it themselves. Change forced on you or I is never accepted if we do not want it. We might live with it but never accept.

Stan, I have to disagree with you. There are a lot of prosperous and hard workers in Thailand. There are some lazy ones but I do not think it has anything to do with Falangs. I know a lot of lazy folks from my home country, both rich and poor. It is a mind set. There are those that race to get out of the mud and some just like to wallow in self pity. In say that there are some that try hard but to no avail. Don;t know the answer but blameing it on the culture here is baloney. That sounds like some in the other parts of the world blaming Race, Creed, Sex and all the rest. It is excuses. Failure I can stand as it is an offshoot of trying. Excuses lead to failure period!!!!!!!!!!

[Aardvark]

banpaeng, the US is a perfect example of what I meant. The US was"nt just interested in learning from others, it actively went out and poached them from where ever in the world it could find people with the talents that they wanted. They not only offered them top dollars but also relocation and ongoing support until they were fully integrated into local society. This is why they were the first to land a man on the moon and are one of the most technological countries on earth. The Japanese followed siute and the Chinese have now jumped on the gravy train and will in not too many years be a true economic power house. For those of us who love Thailand and its people we dont want to see it get left behind just for the sake of not being able to take a little constructive critisism. Better to loose a few friends along the way than to loose your way completely.

[BKKSTAN]

Banpaeng ,I agree that it is a ''mindset''!I was offering an opinion of why their is such a mindset amongst diadvantaged Thais which are in the majority throughout Issan.The Chinese and Chinese -Thai are a completely different mindset!

[izzix]

terrible waste of human resources in LOS , and they are talking nuclear weapons and missiles now when most of the population cant earn enough to live on per day . 100bahts a day for a 12hour shift ,no wonder they are bitter at farangs, when they should be bitter about their own corrupt governments .

[ntvillas2]

TV. Films and internet are making The Thais Pissed Off. They See what we have and want the Same. They will Work Hard and Do good work if you look after them. and Show them you are Happy with Them. once a While offer a Few Beers and Some Banana it works Well. Thais Have a Massive problem with low Wages and the prices in the shops going Up. They Need more money just to live. The government needs to Give a fair min Wage and Shorter working Hours.
Then i Think they will Be Happy. one thing for sure they love Fun and i watched them Have it for the last 3 days with Water. So You need to wait and see When a proper Government Take over.
now its not Easy as Thailand has Many Problems to solve.
We can say what we Think but its Not up to Us to Change it.
China is Now on the Way up Thailand should Look to China for Help. And work Closer
China needs Water and Rice Badly. and Have $$$$$$$ in Reserve.
So China could be a Great help.

I Will go Now and Hope we See nicer Things in the papers in the next 6 Months
About New investment.
bye for now

[cookie]

A great article about censorship in general in Thailand today in The nation.
This article is spot on, things will have to change here.

Mon, April 16, 2007 : Last updated 9:30 am (Thai local time)




Inconvenient truths of censorship

Censorship is nearly always a form of denial, an attempt to hide a truth or limit its power.

If someone wants to write or shout something quite meaningless or uninteresting, then nobody takes much notice anyway. Censors reach for the blue pencil, the scissors, and the off switch when there really is something that most people want to know and a few people want to hide.

Every Thai government gets the urge to censor. In the political culture, there is a memory of the good times (for governments) when they could stop most criticism by one means or another. But over the past three decades, suppression has become more and more difficult. There is a growing audience of people who want to know what is going on, and hence an expanding business opportunity in supplying that demand. Even if government controls the mainstream electronic media and can heavy the press, there are other channels. Way back the popular method was leaflets. Then came faxes. Then SMS messaging and community radio. And now email, blogs and websites. This sequence has an important feature: the old forms were local, the new ones are global.

But censorship is not what it used to be. Consider the case of the royal biography which was banned in Thailand before the book's publication in the US last year. Despite the ban, photocopied versions circulated widely in Thailand even before the publication date. Purchase through online booksellers has not been too difficult. Parts of the book have been scanned and placed on the Web. Passages have been translated into Thai and also placed on the Web or circulated in other ways. Cheap illegal photocopied versions have been on sale furtively in the city. The content of the book has been widely discussed in Web forums.

This book is expensive, heavy and in English. Normally the readership of such a tome would be limited to those who have the money to buy it, the language skills to understand it and the commitment to wade through it. Censorship often tends to raise a book's notoriety and hence its attraction. But in the new world of more open media, a ban can also increase a book's readership by making it cheaper and more widely accessible.

Such censorship no longer achieves its supposed purpose of actually preventing people from gaining access to the information being provided. Rather, such censorship amounts to a public statement of disapproval. Official authorities still seem to think they have to issue such statements of disapproval, perhaps because they are reluctant to admit that their power has diminished in practice. But such censorship can become a form of viral marketing, which both advertises a product and expands its distribution channels.

The YouTube affair has followed the same pattern, with some added features. The attempt to suppress the first video posted on the site only gave birth to at least seven more. The wholesale blocking of the YouTube site in Thailand spawned a cottage industry for devising work-arounds and other forms of distribution. The prominence given to the issue in the press meant that the numbers who knew about the videos and who had a chance to see them multiplied many times beyond the few who regularly trawl YouTube.

In the international arena, the impact of the Thai official protests were even more virulent. Every day, hundreds of clips are posted on YouTube, but only a small fraction gain the kind of publicity and notoriety of this batch. The protests by the Thai government ran as major stories on CNN and BBC World, and appeared on the front pages of several international newspapers. Undoubtedly this boosted the numbers who viewed the videos around the world far above the average for a YouTube clip. Through these stories, many more people got to know about the Oliver Jufer case, the existence in Thailand of a lese majeste law, and the enthusiasm of Thai authorities for imposing censorship. These international media stories were usually scrupulous in pointing out that many people in Thailand found the videos very offensive because of widespread reverence for an individual, yet as a whole these stories portrayed Thailand as a government struggling to impose its own repressive habits on the world.

Internally, however, the YouTube affair has been a massive success for the junta. Various government figures proclaimed that the clips were an attempt to undermine the monarchy, an attack on Thailand as a country, or a threat to national security. Of course, the clips were none of these things. They were very specifically protests over the Jufer case, which many people feel strongly is a legitimate object of protest (whether or not you agree with the sentiment or the method).

Many journalists and commentators, who would normally think of themselves as defenders of free expression in the face of censorship, joined the chorus calling for YouTube to censor the videos and lambasting YouTube spokespersons for defending the principle of free speech. Some of these journalists and commentators have been highly critical of government censorship over past months and had professed outrage at the closure of the Rajdamnoen Room chat site hosted by the pantip.com website, one of the most popular and active political discussion sites in Thailand.

You could imagine the government censors grinning with glee. Here were some of their major critics lining up to call for censorship.

The people who have been put in the most difficult position over this affair are the Thai journalists, academics, commentators and activists who truly support the principle of free expression. It has been almost impossible for them to come out against the call for YouTube to be censored. They would lay themselves wide open to be pilloried as anti-monarchist by those who like to act more royalist than the institution. Wisely they have kept quiet. But this has consolidated this incident as an enormous success for the junta in winning support for the principle of censorship.

Chang Noi