Missing Boys in Caves.

[BJS]

Check the news .
Sounds like a Seal died.
Very sad RIP.

[AlexO]

I have just read in the Daily Express's live updates that a Thai Navy Seal has lost his life in the cave. Dont know if this is false news or not. Anyone have any verified info. If true it just shows how dangerous "diving out' will be for the youngsters.

[AlexO]

Update from BBC web site.
Seems the unfortunate guy was a former Seal aged 38 who had volunteered his services in the rescue attempt. Condolences to his family.
When asked how the missing group could make it out safely if an experienced diver could not, Mr Apakorn said they would take more precautions with the children, who are aged between 11 and 16, and their 25-year-old coach.

[Zidane]

It just underscores how complex and dangerous any rescue attempt will be......RIP to the poor guy.

A former Thai navy diver has died while taking part in search efforts to rescue 12 boys and their football coach trapped in a flooded cave in Thailand.
Petty Officer Saman Gunan lost consciousness on his way out of the Tham Luang cave complex, where he had been delivering supplies.
"His job was to deliver oxygen. He did not have enough on his way back," said an official.
He was brought out by his dive buddy but could not be revived.
PO Saman Gunan had left the navy but returned to help the rescue operation.
Said to be an avid runner and cyclist, he was part of a massive rescue operation launched after the group found themselves stranded in the Tham Luang cave by flooding.
"Inside the cave is tough," Thai Seal commander Rear Adm Arpakorn Yookongkaew told reporters. "On the way back from setting up oxygen bottles, Petty Officer First Class Gunan passed out."

[Giggle]

It's compressed air, not oxygen.

[choi choi]

Something I dont get.
Obviously must be a reason,but to drill a hole down to where they are would be best option.
But unable to locate their position! Surely if a transponder was placed in there, they be able to pin point their position? When they built the English Chunnel, UK tunneled to France, and France tunneled to UK! HTF did they meet in the middle? I wonder why that cant be done there?

[AlexO]

It's compressed air, not oxygen.

Usual crap reporting from know nothing reporters. However it might just be the saviour for the youngsters. Divers know that oxygen becomes poisonous at certain depths. The kids are not anywhere near these depths so it might just help them through the difficult sections. Any diver who has had to suck on pure oxygen knows what a calming gas this can be.

[sometimewoodworker]

It's compressed air, not oxygen.

It could have been either compressed air or Oxygen as the divers are unlikely to be working at more than 6 metres from the surface of the water.

Most cave systems that flood when the water table rises have relatively shallow water, though the flooded sections may extend for quite long distances and be completely flooded.

If I were to do the kind of dives they are I would be using at least 36% nitrox and if custom blends were easily available higher than that depending on the maximum possible water depth. The reason being that you become less tired on the higher nitrox mixes.

Also as a navy seal he will almost certainly been O2 dive trained.

Jerome
------------------------
INTD Technical Diver & Normox Trymix, PADI, MSDT

[glalt]

As most of us will concede, Elon Musk is a genius and he may bring new options to the dangerous situation. I would trust him and his engineers further than the so called experts. His battery packs and DC pumps may be able to pump much more water out, not to mention drilling.

If 13 people can use up the available oxygen, the area cannot be that huge. Releasing pure bottled oxygen would quickly balance the air chemistry. If they can measure the air chemistry, they certainly can measure the air pressure. Some have warned that air pressure is keeping the water out. Knowing that is not the case would make drilling a safer option if they knew exactly where the elevated area is located.

[sometimewoodworker]

If 13 people can use up the available oxygen, the area cannot be that huge. Releasing pure bottled oxygen would quickly balance the air chemistry. If they can measure the air chemistry, they certainly can measure the air pressure. Some have warned that air pressure is keeping the water out. Knowing that is not the case would make drilling a safer option if they knew exactly where the elevated area is located.

Sorry it's not as simple as just adding O2 you also have to reduce the CO2, in fact if you can scrub the CO2 you probably don't need to add any O2

[glalt]

If 13 people can use up the available oxygen, the area cannot be that huge. Releasing pure bottled oxygen would quickly balance the air chemistry. If they can measure the air chemistry, they certainly can measure the air pressure. Some have warned that air pressure is keeping the water out. Knowing that is not the case would make drilling a safer option if they knew exactly where the elevated area is located.

Sorry it's not as simple as just adding O2 you also have to reduce the CO2, in fact if you can scrub the CO2 you probably don't need to add any O2

Yes, you are correct. Spiking the air with oxygen would only be a very short time fix. After some research, I discovered that more than 5 percent CO2 is very dangerous regardless of the amount of oxygen.

[sometimewoodworker]

If 13 people can use up the available oxygen, the area cannot be that huge. Releasing pure bottled oxygen would quickly balance the air chemistry. If they can measure the air chemistry, they certainly can measure the air pressure. Some have warned that air pressure is keeping the water out. Knowing that is not the case would make drilling a safer option if they knew exactly where the elevated area is located.

Sorry it's not as simple as just adding O2 you also have to reduce the CO2, in fact if you can scrub the CO2 you probably don't need to add any O2

Yes, you are correct. Spiking the air with oxygen would only be a very short time fix. After some research, I discovered that more than 5 percent CO2 is very dangerous regardless of the amount of oxygen.

True, you can go down to almost 16% Oxygen with few if any problems, it's the CO2 and if any CO that's really dangerous.

[Hoopoe]

On the subject of so called reporting ,on the TV news i've just seen an interview in a toilet with what looked like the cleaner ,no problem there , BUT WHILST PEOPLE ARE STANDING THERE TAKING A LEAK ,when will these clown circus arsseholes be given the boot ,

[glalt]

At this point, it appears that they are preparing to bring the kids out with the divers. As has been posted, the CO2 level appears to be a problem even though they have an air line to the area the kids are at. Apparently the water level is as low as possible and with the chance of rains, it is the best possible time to get them out. We'll know soon.

[jimjay]

I think the victory handed to the Thais by the Brit cave divers will end up for naught as the Thai authorities blow this one.

So much for the military's idiotic initial assertion they'd just wait this out.

Now we see with the C02 situation just how fKN stupid they really were to offer such an inane option to begin with.

All down to budget or lack of skill, now with their hand forced, watch and be amazed. A typically last ditch hail Mary pass will be thrown and if it misses, some smooth sounding excuse that only chimpanzees would accept will be given.

[bluejets]

Don't NASA use fairly simple carbon filters to absorb co2 as on the spacecraft?
At least that was what I saw with the Apollo 13 details.

[sometimewoodworker]

Don't NASA use fairly simple carbon filters to absorb co2 as on the spacecraft?
At least that was what I saw with the Apollo 13 details.

No they didn't. Carbon doesn't absorb CO2. The chemicals used are rather corrosive they are used up quickly and don't react well to water.

[vlad]

At the end of the day the thai Authorities will be advised by the best Cave divers and Rescue teams from around the world. If they listen and do as they advise, its up to the Thai rescue teams to listen and understand what they have been told, if they do not, and think they know better lives will be lost.

[Zidane]

There was a news conference at 10am Thai time this morning......the rescue mission has now started.
I'm relying on the wifes translation here but it looks as if they are just going to get 1 boy out first and,if it is successful,they will send more divers in to extract a few more at a time....we should know the outcome of the first attempt around 9pm tonight.
Lets pray all the lads and their coach are brought out safely.....

This from the BBC....

Thai authorities have begun an operation to rescue 12 boys and their coach from the cave where they have been trapped for two weeks.
Rescue teams entered the cave at 10:00 local time (03:00 GMT), an official said at a news conference.
Earlier in the day, all non-essential staff were evacuated from the site, leaving only diving teams, medics and security forces at the site.
The boys were exploring the cave on 23 June when they were cut off by water.

[Doodoo]

Prayers for all involved
Can hardly wait to see all in a Picture standing OUTSIDE of the cave

Good Luck
and again
Prayers