ELCB breaker

[the-monk]

ELCB Earth leakage circuit breaker.
The outdoor washing machine ( Samsung) is plugged on an AC outlet directly protected by an ELCB, which seems to have been eaten by red ants. This week the washing machine would stop for no apparent reasons, when plugged on a different AC outlet it worked just fine. 10 days ago my friend told me that she heard a '' frying” sound and saw red ants, when she switched on the ELCB to do the laundry.
When no one home I will power down the house main circuit breaker and open up the ELCB for inspection. Assuming that the breaker is kaput, should I just replace it with a new one with the same specs or are there better solutions, better breakers ? The present breaker is this:
National – ELCB – type KD-LS 2123 – 2P 220V - 50-60 Hz -
Sensitive current 15 Ma – current 30 A - ..
Would a more-less sensitive breaker be more appropriate ?
Thanks all.. Have a pleasant day.

[Barney]

the-monk
I'll assume a couple of things.
The ELCB switch is on the wall near the washing machine and not on the main Dist Board?
Isolate as you have said. Sounds like it is a 2 pole ELCB switch so be careful that your main CB isolates both cores to the top of the switch. You do not want to be bitten by the 220 v monster. Clean out the ants and find a way to stop them.

There should be an earth wire. ELCB means the trip mechanism operates between active and earth. The switch may still operate as the ants may have shorted between earth and active. So a clean up may be all that's required.
If you decide to purchase a new one a switch up to 30ma trip is fine, you have 15ma now. 30ma is the maximum the body can take before death,

If some one tells you to get a RCD unit then that's slightly different to an ELCB as it trips when it senses the difference between Active and neutral. Not Active and earth.

If you are really not certain when you isolate and open up and clean the ants out of the the switch and it doesn't look right, get a sparky in to help.

[the-monk]

Thanks Barney, you are 100% rights in your assumptions, You must see through buildings.. 555. I was planning to do as you described, i ll clean if need to replace i ll buy similar breaker. I understand that National went out of the circuit breaker business i ll try to locate another Japanese brand. Thanks again, have a nice and safe evening.

[sometimewoodworker]

Probably it failed because of the red ant bodies sacrificed to the electrical god rather than thier appetite, adding some ant powder or possibly moth balls will definitely deter them for some time.

[Barney]

Since I'm a curious type of sparky Mr Monk, if you could be bothered could you post a photo of the ant infestation when you take the switch off. Will provide info for others.
What type of ant, I thought the red ant was the one that made a nest only with leaves in the trees?

[tamada]

Since I'm a curious type of sparky Mr Monk, if you could be bothered could you post a photo of the ant infestation when you take the switch off. Will provide info for others.
What type of ant, I thought the red ant was the one that made a nest only with leaves in the trees?

Rainy season sees all sorts of ants in all sorts of places they never ought'r be, especially if they're caught out in the rain during a camp move!

[bluejets]

There should be an earth wire. ELCB means the trip mechanism operates between active and earth.

If some one tells you to get a RCD unit then that's slightly different to an ELCB as it trips when it senses the difference between Active and neutral. Not Active and earth.

They are the same, RCD , elcb, safety switch, safety cut. Same thing, different name, different locations.
ALL monitor the out of balance on Active and Neutral conductors.
Earth wire does nothing in the equation.

What you are probably getting confused with is the old system from the 1950's that used to operate on a voltage trip sequence, totally different and no longer used. I doubt there would ever have been any in Thailand anyhow.

[the-monk]

I took off the cover, unscrewed the connection box and to my surprise everything is spick and span, no insect no dust, spotless. Still we can occasionally hear a cracking noise from the breaker. Reassembled everything and then sprayed insecticide around the box and the breaker, hanged a mothball bag as Mr. Barney suggested. I am a disciple of the << if ain't broke don't fix it >> approach so i guess this is it for now. Thanks all....
[attachment=2]BR-1-jpg.jpg[/attachment]
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[tamada]

... Still we can occasionally hear a cracking noise from the breaker. ...

The last time someone ignored a 'crackling' circuit breaker where I was working.

Burn baby, burn!

[pal52]

I took off the cover, unscrewed the connection box and to my surprise everything is spick and span, no insect no dust, spotless. Still we can occasionally hear a cracking noise from the breaker. Reassembled everything and then sprayed insecticide around the box and the breaker, hanged a mothball bag as Mr. Barney suggested. I am a disciple of the << if ain't broke don't fix it >> approach so i guess this is it for now. Thanks all....
BR-1-jpg.jpg
BR-3-.jpg
BR-2-.jpg

The crackling sound can only be a bad contact inside.
Turn it off & replace it before it sets your wiring on Fire.

[sometimewoodworker]

There should be an earth wire. ELCB means the trip mechanism operates between active and earth.

If some one tells you to get a RCD unit then that's slightly different to an ELCB as it trips when it senses the difference between Active and neutral. Not Active and earth.

They are the same, RCD , elcb, safety switch, safety cut. Same thing, different name, different locations.
ALL monitor the out of balance on Active and Neutral conductors.
Earth wire does nothing in the equation.

What you are probably getting confused with is the old system from the 1950's that used to operate on a voltage trip sequence, totally different and no longer used. I doubt there would ever have been any in Thailand anyhow.

ELCB (Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker) is the old name and often refers to voltage operated devices that are no longer available and it is advised you replace them if you find one.

So usually an elcb is not the same.

GFCI, RCCB & RCB are the same and trip if the line and neutral are not passing the same current, though often combined with an overload protection as an RCBO.

However you can still get a shock with a circuit protected by an RCB, RCCB or RCBO as if you are insulated from earth and you touch line and neutral current will flow through you and still be balanced

[the-monk]

Our ELCB breaker protecting the washing machine circuit, as shown above, was installed by a qualified electrician about 18 months ago. How can anyone say it s no longer available ? What type of breaker should be substituted for this ELCB Thanks all.

[vincemunday]

My builder uses the breakers as in the picture above and thankfully we've not had any trip, looking at them they look really archaic compared to what we use back home, are they just for isolation or do they trip if there is something wrong with the appliance for example? Sorry if my question is a bit dim but I'm no electrician.

[the-monk]

OK let me rephrase my question: What is the best replacement for the installed ELCB breaker protection the ac outlet just below the breaker ? Any explanation would be grate..
This AC outlet is used for (1) washing machine , (2) water filtering system.
Looking forward to reading the answers. I want to learn.. Thanks all.

[sometimewoodworker]

OK let me rephrase my question: What is the best replacement for the installed ELCB breaker protection the ac outlet just below the breaker ? Any explanation would be grate..
This AC outlet is used for (1) washing machine , (2) water filtering system.
Looking forward to reading the answers. I want to learn.. Thanks all.

I think that you are talking about the black unit in this picture?

If that is correct, and when you push the test button it trips, then the trip protection is probably working correctly.

If you are hearing any sound other than possibly a very quiet humm, you mentioned a cracking sound, and you are sure that all 4 connections are tight then it is falling inside and needs replacing before it start a fire.

If needed it can be replaced with a new one, if you can't find the same model (you probably will not as the name ECLB is not used any more) then there are Safe-T-cut units, http://www.safe-t-cut.com/en/products/s ... -rcbo.html you can use available in Global House, DoHome, Thai Watsadu etc

[the-monk]

Thanks every one..

[mally]

In my experience, if it's crackling then somethings wrong, and as someone already mentioned, it could cause a fire - not as uncommon as you might think !
Also, these things don't last forever, and the fact that the Test button works when pushed is no guarantee that the device is working correctly. Here in the UK we test these whenever we carry out electrical works on a property, and a fair number of them fail the test. Some don't trip at all, and others go over the UK permitted fault current before they trip (in British Standard 7161, a 30 m/a RCD has to trip with a fault current between 17 m/a and 27 m/a).
If possible, I would recommend fitting a RCBO, as this gives protection against an over current as well as a fault current.

[the-monk]

Thanks, Good advice... In Udon can anyone suggest a brand and model number RCBO, 30 A 15ma ?
Greatly appreciated. Have a nice day.

[sometimewoodworker]

Thanks, Good advice... In Udon can anyone suggest a brand and model number RCBO, 30 A 15ma ?
Greatly appreciated. Have a nice day.

I posted a suggestion earlier. Page 1, last post.