Brexit and Leadership.

[tamada]

You fail to say whether you are from Eire or Northern Ireland but as far as I can tell in the death there are only three options, one is a border where the EU can monitor for any duty due, the second option is Theresa May’s option where there is an element of cooperation between the EU and the UK and duty is collected and paid on trust using new tech and random checks for compliance and a third option which is a United Ireland and a customs border in the Irish Sea.... which I doubt will happen in the near future if ever, unless of course you can think of a different way? I’m very interested which scenario you favour?

Since Fear Rua says the Good Friday was good for his nation's economy, I would think he's from Eire. NI just muddles along as a vassal state like Wales and Scotland.

However, since NI's executive has been MIA well over 500 days, it is a bad time to be talking about borders of any sort on the emerald isle, especially when it's by European autocrats who haven't a bloody clue or couldn't care less about the tortured Irish history.

[Fear Rua]

You fail to say whether you are from Eire or Northern Ireland but as far as I can tell in the death there are only three options, one is a border where the EU can monitor for any duty due, the second option is Theresa May’s option where there is an element of cooperation between the EU and the UK and duty is collected and paid on trust using new tech and random checks for compliance and a third option which is a United Ireland and a customs border in the Irish Sea.... which I doubt will happen in the near future if ever, unless of course you can think of a different way? I’m very interested which scenario you favour?

Don't leave us.

I'm from Southern Ireland and we'll be fecked without the UK in the EU. We don't really want to have to pay for a United Ireland just yet either.

The trade will be sorted out but if people are worse off who will they blame?

..usually the foreigners.

[Fear Rua]

Since Fear Rua says the Good Friday was good for his nation's economy, I would think he's from Eire. NI just muddles along as a vassal state like Wales and Scotland.

I'm an islander.

I'm from Ireland. Lucky me [/quote]

[tinpeeba]

Don't see how May could have been surprised by Salzburg and the rejection of her Chequers plan. Here's the UK government information, pre-referendum, on what would happen if people voted leave:

[vincemunday]

I love Eire, I've been there many times, I used to go to Dublin and stay in Clontarf before Dublin became the tourist hotspot it is today drinking in Leason Street basement bars until early hours, I've travelled all the way round and seen sights that'll stay with me forever, particularly Killarney and Limerick. That said, I don't really give a toss about its economy, it's not our issue, it's the problem of the EU to ensure you're all fed and watered and whether you could afford a United Ireland or not, you can't by the way, there's enough hatred in the North to ensure it won't happen in our lifetime, I've met quite a few Orangemen and they loathe the Southern Irish, to the point of being slightly demented about it. My favoured scenario is pretty similar to Theresa Mays, to keep the border open using a trust based system and technology using ad hoc spot checks and banning any company from the arrangement if they are caught trying to beat the system, then we'd see if the Irish really cared about keeping the border open or not but you would have though peace was about the free movement of the Irish people not the free movement of goods but perhaps I'm over simplifying the problem, I'm not au fait with the troubles nor do I want to be, I found the intimidation in the Dublin bars by the "boys" to be unnecessary and the English soldiers at the border to be just as scary, offensive and nasty, two ends of the same nonsense stick you might think. All said and done, I'm a firm believer that we need to keep the Union together until such time as the majority of the people who live in Scotland, NI or Wales decide otherwise by the ballot box and that we shouldn't allow a unelected bunch of know nothings who don't really care about Ireland other than using it as a stick to beat the UK government to decide what happens.

[GT93]

The probability of a hard Brexit and a hard border between Eire and Northern Ireland seems to be increasing as time passes. I have long thought that the probability of that outcome was underestimated. Hopefully the British planning for that outcome is very advanced.

[vincemunday]

It amuses me how these Southern Irish politicians try to put the onus on the UK to do what's needed to support their economy and do what's right for them, IT'S NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY and it's hasn't been since 1918, they declared independence and then rescinded that independence to the EEC back in 1973, there's a very strong case for letting them lie in the bed they have made and I hope our government put the needs and wishes of NI first, should they renege on their promises to do that it will cost them dear at the next election and as they're already on shaky ground I'm sure they will. Leo Varadkar is an obnoxious tw@ who seems to think his brinkmanship and loud mouthing will gain him brownie points, I'm looking forward to him getting buckets of egg on his already greasy looking, smarmy face.

[rick]

Northern Ireland and the border are a big issue. As to a united Ireland it will happen in about 20 years due to demographic factors (that is approximately when roman catholics become the majority of voters). Brexit may just hurry it up a bit.

Theoretically many of the issues Brexit will cause could be solved but that requires education for businesses, lots of legislation and getting everything done on time without making a mess of it. Given the way it has been handled so far by the government, and the fact that they have only just started a massive recruitment drive to get all the civil servants needed to do it (18 months too late) then 2019 will be 'interesting times' as the chinese say.

Well, at least it has given my son a job at the department of Business ......he started this month.

I am sure the economy will recover by 2025. But five tough years to come.

[tamada]

[thaiguzzi]

Thanx for that.
Superbly written and very well spoken.

As for anybody spouting that JRM is good for Britain, let alone a decent human being, let alone a decent politician, let alone a possible leader of a political party, they want their head examined.
The guy is a complete aristocratic numpty, who does not, nor ever has, lived in the real world, and i thought people like him went out with the Ark. Or at least the 60's.
Jesus wept, it goes from bad to worse. Thank fck i don't live there anymore.

[leterry60614]

Victor Meldrew orders the Brexit Special .... hilarious.
https://youtu.be/4kIU93qaFag

[tamada]

It amuses me how these Southern Irish politicians try to put the onus on the UK to do what's needed to support their economy and do what's right for them, IT'S NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY and it's hasn't been since 1918, they declared independence and then rescinded that independence to the EEC back in 1973, there's a very strong case for letting them lie in the bed they have made and I hope our government put the needs and wishes of NI first, should they renege on their promises to do that it will cost them dear at the next election and as they're already on shaky ground I'm sure they will. Leo Varadkar is an obnoxious tw@ who seems to think his brinkmanship and loud mouthing will gain him brownie points, I'm looking forward to him getting buckets of egg on his already greasy looking, smarmy face.

So who should take responsibility for planting non-Catholic, non-ethnic immigrants in the northern provinces? A whole lot of Irish bed-making wasn't done in Ireland.

May has imperiled the peace process because she totally misjudged the British electorate just as her predecessor did. This is complicated by the undeniable fact that she's a remainer at heart.

[vincemunday]

As the song goes, twas in the days of yore, the 16th century to be exact, how long should we remain responsible? The hatred between both sides is intense, I know orange men who would quite happily take up arms and I've met Southern Irish Catholics who are just as extreme. Incidentally those who define themselves as catholic is very much on the decline, the recent visit by the pope proved that. K ing Willy was a dutchman by the way so why aren't they shouldering some of the responsibility?

[tamada]

As the song goes, twas in the days of yore, the 16th century to be exact, how long should we remain responsible? The hatred between both sides is intense, I know orange men who would quite happily take up arms and I've met Southern Irish Catholics who are just as extreme. Incidentally those who define themselves as catholic is very much on the decline, the recent visit by the pope proved that. K ing Willy was a dutchman by the way so why aren't they shouldering some of the responsibility?

There's a statute of limitations?

Bugger!... I must have missed that.

Even the Aussies begrudgingly acknowledge that their buggering about with the b00ngs was pretty shoddy to say the least.

[vincemunday]

What has the Aussies treatment of the indigenous population of Australia got to do with anything? Tamara at his finest.... once again. You completely ignore the fact that William, the hero of the orange order was DUTCH, so by using your obviously cobblers analogy that we should pay for the troubles forever we should assume that as he was DUTCH surely the reponsibility should be theirs, no of course not, it happened 500 years ago. Here’s a little light reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Boyne

[Giggle]

What has the Aussies treatment of the indigenous population of Australia got to do with anything?

It's called deflection. Anything to salve the wounds.

[tamada]

What has the Aussies treatment of the indigenous population of Australia got to do with anything? Tamara at his finest.... once again. You completely ignore the fact that William, the hero of the orange order was DUTCH, so by using your obviously cobblers analogy that we should pay for the troubles forever we should assume that as he was DUTCH surely the reponsibility should be theirs, no of course not, it happened 500 years ago. Here’s a little light reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Boyne

Sorry that analogous observations are all a wee bit over your head vince but I understand that you're not all that tall anyway. But I digress.

The House of Oranj way back then has the same irrelevance as the present House of Windsor (formerly Saxe-Coburg abd Gotha) when it comes to what England did in Ireland. Unless you really believe that it was all kicked off by the cloggies, try and go back a wee bit further when individual James was still the heid bummer and sanctioned the Ulster Plantations.

"The Ulster Protestant community emerged during the Plantation of Ulster. This was the colonisation of Ulster with loyal English-speaking Protestants from Great Britain under the reign of individual James. Those involved in planning the plantation saw it as a means of controlling, anglicising and "civilising" Ulster. The province was almost wholly Gaelic, Catholic and rural, and had been the region most resistant to English control. The plantation was also meant to sever Gaelic Ulster's links with the Gaelic Highlands of Scotland. Most of the land colonised was confiscated from the native Irish. Begun privately in 1606, the plantation became government-sponsored in 1609, with much land for settlement being allocated to the Livery Companies of the City of London."

I am nailing you for the bumptious twit you are with your 'I've been to Dublin' and 'basement bars' and I like the Irish and I know angry orangemen and extreme southern Catholics. Do you buggery. To make up for your inattention in History at school, you have become a wiki-man and not a very good one either.

Trying to come across as knowing more then you do makes you a lot less affable.

[vincemunday]

Copy and paste as much as you like, the deciding factor and continuation of protestants in Ireland was the battle of the Boyne end of, of course as usual I'm sure you know more than the historians. You're childish as well dim, always a little jibe, seriously waste your drivel on someone who actually gives a toss.

[vincemunday]

Most of us Brexiteers as we've become known, already feel that our PM has compromised far too much to strike a trade deal with the EU. Unfortunately this morning she has confirmed that she's prepared to make even more concessions to the EU, at some point the Brexit MPs will need to stand up and be counted, if they consider chequers to be a sell out they need to act fast, the million dollar question is do any of them have the balls to stand up to her, so far it wouldn't seem so.

[Giggle]

It's a ---- sandwich. You're jammed either way. Your hubris doesn't allow you to see this.

You deserve it.