Udon Immigration extension (New form)

[RLTrader]

Went to Udon Immigration yesterday to renew retirement extension. Service was A++ in and out in less than 30 mins including 90 day reporting.

While doing extension was given a 2 page survey to fill out, on service. What a great idea.

[Brian Davis]

..... What a great idea.......

Maybe, I'd have to see the form. If it's one of those Thai ideas anywhere to make an operation look good, in touch, efficient etc., when the reality is very different, a meaningless exercise. Does it give the opportunity to highlight negative things(as well as positive), to suggest improvements, or just ticking boxes? I cannot really imagine that a form indicating the Officers are pocketing money for e.g.the miscellaneous, 'free' services where no fees are listed by the Immigration Service, or automatically asking 2,000 baht for the extension fee (when it's 1900 baht) would go anywhere except in the waste paper bin. Is the form completed anonymously?! Can take away and complete?
I do think the Udon office has improved and my form would be positive, where possible too. I have genuine suggestions to make to increase Officer salaries officially. The real test is, of course, whether anybody (with a command of the English language) is really going to read the forms, coordinate and take appropriate action to improve. TIT and one has to be sceptical.
It does seem, at present, that with Immigration's inability to answer questions associated with the withdrawal of the Income Letter, that communication isn't their strong point.

[Giggle]

Nong Khai immigration implemented a customer survey a few years ago. The IO handed it to you to fill out as they were considering your application for extension of stay. When you finished the survey, you handed it directly back to the IO -- before you received a determination on your application.

A five year old can see the problem here.

[sometimewoodworker]

It does seem, at present, that with Immigration's inability to answer questions associated with the withdrawal of the Income Letter, that communication isn't their strong point.

It is almost certainly the case that they can't answer questions associated with the withdrawal of the Income Letter because they do not have any new information and nothing to do with any ability to communicate. There is currently no change of policy by immigration so at the moment it is, no letter/affidavit, no ability to use income.

However there is currently talk of a new police order being in progress, if so it will probably answer the questions being asked, but even if Udon immigration knows the details proposed they will not be able to say anything until/unless it becomes final.

For anyone who has been paying attention it is not urgent as they will have got their letter and it will be valid for applications for 6 months.

I think that immigration is likely to be making an announcement a lot sooner than June as there will be people who don't read the forums for whom the stopping of the letters will come as a nasty surprise.

Reading the tea leaves if there is going to be a modification I would be expecting to hear something early next year.

[RLTrader]

Maybe, I'd have to see the form. If it's one of those Thai ideas anywhere to make an operation look good, in touch, efficient etc., when the reality is very different, a meaningless exercise. Does it give the opportunity to highlight negative things(as well as positive), to suggest improvements, or just ticking boxes? I cannot really imagine that a form indicating the Officers are pocketing money for e.g.the miscellaneous, 'free' services where no fees are listed by the Immigration Service, or automatically asking 2,000 baht for the extension fee (when it's 1900 baht) would go anywhere except in the waste paper bin. Is the form completed anonymously?! Can take away and complete?
I do think the Udon office has improved and my form would be positive, where possible too. I have genuine suggestions to make to increase Officer salaries officially. The real test is, of course, whether anybody (with a command of the English language) is really going to read the forms, coordinate and take appropriate action to improve. TIT and one has to be sceptical.
It does seem, at present, that with Immigration's inability to answer questions associated with the withdrawal of the Income Letter, that communication isn't their strong point.

Mostly were √ boxes but on page 2 were two places for comments.

One of the questions had to do with bribes. There was no place for your name and was not asked to sign, but not sure what happened to it, kind of think it was put into the stack of my paperwork and stapled when she was done, which would work for me. A lot of questions on the office & facilities & workers.

I was very happy with the service I received, so √ed the 1st box on all questions that applied to me, others √ed didn’t apply box and left the comment sections blank.

Even though the place was crowded, I was taken before I had a chance to sit down. At the end she just said “Pay Fee”, so I gave her 1,900฿

Being that the “Income Letter” is good for the next 6 months here in Udon, would not expect anyone to know what will be done or if any new policy on this matter will happen.

As far as I know it was the 5 eye’s Embassy’s (US UK CN AU NZ) not Thai Immigration that Stop Certifying the “Income Letter”. So of course Thailand Immigration is in the Dark like we are. My 2฿

[sometimewoodworker]

Being that the “Income Letter” is good for the next 6 months here in Udon, would not expect anyone to know what will be done or if any new policy on this matter will happen.

As far as I know it was the 5 eye’s Embassy’s (US UK CN AU NZ) not Thai Immigration that Stop Certifying the “Income Letter”. So of course Thailand Immigration is in the Dark like we are. My 2฿

Not in fact the 5 eye’s Embassy’s as CN an NZ are still issuing, it is US, UK, Australia and Denmark that have or will have stopped.

[Charlieb]

Is it a bribe when they charge you 500 Baht for a form needed to open a bank account? Charge 500 Baht, no receipt.
Not worth arguing about at the time but well worth a mention in the analysis form if I am everoffered one.

I would also give them kudos about their speed of processing now. Looks amost like an assembly line the way they do things now.

[sometimewoodworker]

Anything where you give money and get no receipt is a bribe.

[Brian Davis]

Is it a bribe when they charge you 500 Baht for a form needed to open a bank account? Charge 500 Baht, no receipt.
Not worth arguing about at the time but well worth a mention in the analysis form if I am ever offered one. ......

Not so much a bribe, I'd suggest, as I think you'd get the letter sooner or later, just an abuse of position. It's one of the miscellaneous services I refer to. Unlike the extension fee which is official and recorded in many places, I've never seen a fee for this kind of service listed, although I have been told in 'discussing' with a senior officer that it's free. The money without doubt goes in the pocket, thus no receipt and I rather feel it's seen as a perk by all at Immigration. The fee can vary and a couple of those every day is 'very nice, thank you'. A few times I've witnessed pay up if you want it now, otherwise wait a week if you want it free. So, you're pushed into a corner really.

[Brian Davis]

My apologies in mentioning Income Letter and getting off topic. Mind you, that topic went off at a tangent with discussions whether you could trust your wife etc!
I will say that news of the discontinued Income Letter was posted here first on October 8th. It was clear that many members had queries and from a post or two, that Udon Immigration had sort clarification on some things too. If a police order is forthcoming, that certainly indicates procedures need to be seen in black and white, for the guidance of local offices as well as applicants. So, I referred to Udon at not being so good at communicating. Ok, so Udon has to rely on Immigration HQ. Well, it's been nearly 3 months now, which doesn't, to me at least, seem very efficient.

[sometimewoodworker]

My apologies in mentioning Income Letter and getting off topic. Mind you, that topic went off at a tangent with discussions whether you could trust your wife etc!
I will say that news of the discontinued Income Letter was posted here first on October 8th. It was clear that many members had queries and from a post or two, that Udon Immigration had sort clarification on some things too. If a police order is forthcoming, that certainly indicates procedures need to be seen in black and white, for the guidance of local offices as well as applicants. So, I referred to Udon at not being so good at communicating. Ok, so Udon has to rely on Immigration HQ. Well, it's been nearly 3 months now, which doesn't, to me at least, seem very efficient.

Immigration (Udon or HQ) doesn't have to do anything, they haven't made any changes, so what communication would you expect them to make. They have said that there have been no change to the requirements. That sounds like efficient communication to me.

Just because you want, for no good reason that I can see, to know now if there is going to be a change affecting extensions after June/July and immigration is not answering doesn't make them bad communicators it just makes you impatient. Jai yen yen.

As I mentioned anyone who has been paying attention who's extension of stay ends before the end of July has had enough time to continue using the income method, apart from the Danes, so for those people there is no immediate urgency, for anyone who has not been reading any news at all, typically most people applying do so some reasonable time before the extension ends and so even for them the expiration is date when the policy begins to bite (if there is no change) is mid February.

There is no information about the content of, subject of, or even that, there is definitely going to be a new police order.
I don't know if any past police order has gone into the detail of procedures. Procedures are usually defined in guidance letters from immigration HQ and those cannot be issued before a prospective police order has been published.

I do know that there is a new head of the immigration bureau who has come into office very recently and that he is not impressed with the current paperwork needed but doesn't yet have funding for the upgrades needed to the computer systems and software to make changes to that soon. My speculation is that he may be influential in any possible changes.

[kopkei]

if you move to a country where you know the way of doing things are corrupted , do you adapt to the system or do you want to make everything difficult ? , do you really think by making a stand it will make a difference ? and the corruption will be gone? ....i do not care less i pay 2.000 baht for the extension, neither the 500 baht to transfer my visa from old to new passport ...., many people throw away a lot more money on other idiot things...it is what it is and will never change ..

[saint]

if you move to a country where you know the way of doing things are corrupted , do you adapt to the system or do you want to make everything difficult ? , do you really think by making a stand it will make a difference ? and the corruption will be gone? ....i do not care less i pay 2.000 baht for the extension, neither the 500 baht to transfer my visa from old to new passport ...., many people throw away a lot more money on other idiot things...it is what it is and will never change ..

Exactly . You cannot live in any country and try to install your values . Going with the flow is a lot less stressful .
You dont have to like it ,but sure as eggs is eggs you are never going to change it . Its embedded in their culture

[SJP17]

For comparison the cost for a 30 month period of further leave to remain in the UK is £1033 plus a £500 immigration health surcharge even if your working and paying national insurance and tax.

To sit the English Test another £150 to meet the language criteria then there is the life in the UK test for Indefinite leave to remain £50 a pop until you pass.

Then Indefinite leave to remain at a whopping £2389.

[SJP17]

Ill just add to that from the 8th Jan 2019 the Health Surcharge is doubling to £400 a year bringing a 30 month visa extension to £2033 !

[Brian Davis]

Totally agree that corruption is inherent here and it would take generations, probably some draconian measures and a total change in the Thai mindset to alter that. How do you succeed in that? People need to be frightened of corruption, not see it as a means of progress. Some may feel it contributes to Thailand remaining a third world country. But there are agencies supposedly fighting corruption and individual exposures sometimes in the news. On topic, not so long ago, would there ever have been a reference to bribery on a survey form? I doubt it. As I've said already, the forms are probably someone's idea to 'look good' and will probably just be filed. My small protest is to refuse to help pay for the new car of a uniformed, supposedly honest and honourable, demanding respect from me Officer for doing his/her job. If salaries are modest, that's not my problem and their positions should not be a means of filling their pockets. Perhaps the Government should buy less submarines?! I hope my young son will grow up to say no to corruption too.

[sometimewoodworker]

I do know that there is a new head of the immigration bureau who has come into office very recently and that he is not impressed with the current paperwork needed but doesn't yet have funding for the upgrades needed to the computer systems and software to make changes to that soon. My speculation is that he may be influential in any possible changes.

If anyone wants to read a first hand report from a meeting between the aid to the new general in charge of the immigration bureau and a long time Australian resident that took place recently in Chang Watana it is here. http://www.coolthaihouse.com/forum/view ... 8&start=28 it makes very interesting reading and certainly suggests that for some offices there will be some major changes. Other changes will be dependent on future funding being given so are not certain.

I am not going to repost the report here as there is no need and I don't have the writers permission (I haven't asked as anyone can access it) also some people may want to comment or ask questions.

[Raoul Duke]

I didn't see the "Boss Man" with the glasses and the gold Garuda ring (who usually sits in the middle)overseeing things when I was in there last week.
Is he still around?

[Doodoo]

Raoul

If it is the same man he retired in September I believe

[colt1911]

I received my 1 year O A Extension and Multi Entry this morning. Used the Income Affidavit. A very efficient operation. In and out in 20 minutes. I was not given a Questionnaire. I observed that some folks were not well prepared. i.e. copies not signed, no map, no copy of Arrival Card. Udon Immigration great job!!

Regards