Warning : Non OA converted to Non O based on retirement

[AA Ins Broker]

First – please don’t shoot the messenger, this only a warning to people who first entered Thailand on an OA Visa and have since changed to a Non O ‘retirement’.

Our office in HH has been told by several customers that the renewal for ‘Retirement’ visas have been refused

This seemed remarkable as one customer has had an extension of stay for the last 10 Years without problems
The reason of the refusal was that his very first Visa 11 Years ago was a NON OA.

Our office has double checked this with immigration and the answer is:

If somebody’s first Visa was a NON OA then Health Insurance is now required.
If the extension of stay is based on this first NON OA visa it does not matter how many extensions of stay they had afterwards.

This means that the mandatory insurance does not concern just a few but a huge group of foreigners since many initially arrived with a NON OA and have since converted

To avoid it:
Leave the Country without a re-entry permit and come back with a Tourist Visa.
Once back in Thailand, a NON O Retirement Visa can be arranged.

[jackspratt]

Thanks for the heads up, AA.

Seems a bit strange though, when my understanding is that the insurance requirement does not start until after 31 October.

In my case http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/v ... 21#p556421, probably doesn't make much difference.

When I arrive back I will either get a "permission to stay" until late July 2020 - in which case I don't need to do anything for the time being.

If they (IO at Swampy) require insurance, I will get a 30 day, and need to go to Lao within that period.

[semperfiguy]

Peter, this does not make any sense to me and it very confusing. How and why would anyone enter on a Non-Immigrant O-A and then convert to a Non-Immigrant O? I enterered 9 years ago on a Non-Imm O-A and have extended for the past 8 years on the basis of Retirement. Are you saying that health insurance may be required of me on my next extension request?

[AA Ins Broker]

Peter, this does not make any sense to me and it very confusing. How and why would anyone enter on a Non-Immigrant O-A and then convert to a Non-Immigrant O? I enterered 9 years ago on a Non-Imm O-A and have extended for the past 8 years on the basis of Retirement. Are you saying that health insurance may be required of me on my next extension request?

Sorry but I can only report on what is happening at the HH IO and what our customers are telling us.
The answer to your question is yes, if you first entered Thailand on an OA Visa and then at a later date changed to an O based on retirement, you may well be asked to show proof of insurance on the next renewal

Peter

[samsam]

Peter so how much for an insurance that meets the requirement of 400000 inhouse and 40000 thb out, concidering i have free healthcare in norway and sweden as long im able to fly there and im 67 years old,have a bit high bloodpresure ,on medication 50 mg a day metoprolol and no other healthproblem? Thanks

[sometimewoodworker]

Peter, this does not make any sense to me and it very confusing. How and why would anyone enter on a Non-Immigrant O-A and then convert to a Non-Immigrant O? I enterered 9 years ago on a Non-Imm O-A and have extended for the past 8 years on the basis of Retirement. Are you saying that health insurance may be required of me on my next extension request?

Sorry but I can only report on what is happening at the HH IO and what our customers are telling us.
The answer to your question is yes, if you first entered Thailand on an OA Visa and then at a later date changed to an O based on retirement, you may well be asked to show proof of insurance on the next renewal

Peter

Are you talking about Hua Hin immigration office? If so then it is one of the small number of office's that has been known to have invented some extra requirements in the past.

Knowing which offices are concerned is rather important, while it certainly can change Udon has been remarkably sensible and certainly seems to be ignoring some of the recent changes, I see no reason to think Udon is going to change is stance without an amendment to a police order, possibly not even then.

It also seems that your customers are some what confused to say the least (something that seems to be only too easy with Thai immigration)

Thai Immigration will not issue a Non-O visa unless it is issued to someone who currently has a visa exempt entry, visa on arrival or a tourist visa and only for the reason that the holder is going to apply fo a 1 year extension to permit seasoning of the required money, never to a holder of a Non-OA. Apart from that case (I am deliberately ignoring the elite visa) visas are always issued outside Thailand.

Immigration will extend the permission to stay for a year from either a Non-O or a Non-OA.

Visas are never (despite the wording on the immigration website) extended, the reason for a visa is never changed.

The reason for a permission to stay extension can be changed, most commonly at the time of renewal.

[tamada]

My understanding is that all extensions based on retirement originated from an O-A, O or a Tourist visa, a visa exempt entry or a visa on arrival (VoA).

The O-A visa, if properly utilized would have been extended once but after around 2-and-a-bit years (when the first and only 1-year O-A visa extension expires), the visa is dead/canceled and longer stay is enabled by annual retirement extensions.

The Non-O would have been converted to annual retirement extension on its expiration, typically just before its 12-months validity expires and the visa is dead/canceled.

The TR (METV and SETV), visa-exempt and VoA are typically single entry that are converted to Non-O status in-country with the 'temporary' visa canceled when the retirement extension is issued as above.

Since there's no legal or technical difference between an extension that originated with an O-A and one that started with an O, TR (METV/SETV), visa-exempt or VoA, the OP's information suggests that Hua Hin are processing retirement extensions based on the original visa that enabled it and when it's found to be an O-A, then they are (illogically) applying the new insurance criteria.

One to watch for but as STWW points out, Hua Hin, like Chiang Mai or Jomtien, are not new to making their own, different rules.

[Bandung_Dero]

Good post!
Let's just wait and see. There is NO point in starting rumors (or spreading gossip) that will just get every ones anxiety level up and start this whole debate over again. As said the idiot IO's down South are a law to their own = scare the Farang into paying more graft?

An extension based on retirement is NOT subject to the health insurance introduction on 31st Oct or any other date (as the new rules stand today). End of story!

[sometimewoodworker]

Regrettably with immigration procedures the wording of rules and terms are important be used to avoid adding to the available confusion.

My understanding is that all extensions based on retirement originated from an O-A, O

Only those two

or a Tourist visa, a visa exempt entry or a visa on arrival (VoA).

Not these

The O-A visa, if properly utilized would have been extended once but after around 2-and-a-bit years (when the first and only 1-year O-A visa extension expires), the visa is dead/canceled and longer stay is enabled by annual retirement extensions.

a holder of the OA makes an exit and entry to Thailand (to get a new 1 year permission to stay, (no extension involved ) just before the visa expires to get the maximum, almost 2 years, time.

It is the permission to stay you get entering Thailand that can be extended

The Non-O would have been converted to annual retirement extension on its expiration, typically just before its 12-months validity expires and the visa is dead/canceled.

only the Non-O multiple entry has a 1 year term, the single entry is 3 months.

converted Suggests something that doesn't actually happen.

On it's expiration a Non OA or Non O multiple entry expire, a Non O single entry is marked Used.

None of these are converted

The TR (METV and SETV), visa-exempt and VoA are typically single entry that are converted to Non-O status in-country with the 'temporary' visa canceled when the retirement extension is issued as above.

Sorry the terms above " converted ", "'temporary' ", and "canceled" while I'm sure were used to try to make the process easier to understand (in my opinion) actually lead to more misunderstanding.

The process is that the holder of permissions to stay granted by one of the above, applies for and is given a Non O visa by an immigration office in Thailand, this visa is then immediately marked as used and a 90 day permission to stay issued, this permission to stay can then be extended

Since there's no legal or technical difference between an extension that originated with an O-A and one that started with an O, --- snip--- the OP's information suggests that Hua Hin are processing retirement extensions based on the original visa that enabled it and when it's found to be an O-A, then they are (illogically) applying the new insurance criteria.

So far it is not only illogical it is also (without an new police order or memo) wrong.
While it certainly can change the insurance requirement only applies at the time a Non-OA VISA is issued. Immigration offices in Thailand can not and do not issue Non-OA visas.

The intention of the insurance requirement may well be to require every foreign person in Thailand using a retirement extension to have insurance. But at the moment that is not the words used and the words used are the thing we have to go by

Hua Hin immigration office may have a correct understanding of the intent of the rule or equally just inventing requirements as they have been known to do in the past

One to watch for but as STWW points out, Hua Hin, like Chiang Mai or Jomtien, are not new to making their own, different rules.

Edit. Oct 22 Due to the new information I’ve just received there is a new police order information lower down

[gghh]

What nonsense rumours are spread out here about HuaHin immigration?
It was always one of the most easy-to-deal-with and helpful offices.

[sometimewoodworker]

A short explanation of the (most common) visa
and permissions to stay

Thailand is AFIK unique in the way the visa system and staying in the country works.
This is probably because the the ministries involved are different and fiercely defend their prerogatives.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs (of the Kingdom of Thailand) for visas
and the Ministry of Interior of the Kingdom of Thailand for permission to enter and stay.

The immigration department of the Royal Thai Police do not (except in 2 specific cases) issues visas

Visas can never be extended. You always have to get a new visa. (MoFA)

Visas suggest to the immigration officer at the border the time the IO should give you to stay in country. It is the judgment of the IO, and supervisor, to allow you to enter and the time to give you. They usually give the time the visas allow. They can shorten the time permitted or refuse entry at their discretion.


The immigration officers (RTP) issue permission to stay (it isn't a visa)

permission to stay given for entering with a Non immigrant visa ( O, OA, B) can be extended multiple times

permission to stay given for entering with and without other visas can be extended 1 time only.
You can apply a second time, this application will be refused but you are usually given 7 more days to leave, so a de facto extension.

I hope this has given a little clarity.

[sometimewoodworker]

What nonsense rumours are spread out here about HuaHin immigration?
It was always one of the most easy-to-deal-with and helpful offices.

That they are easy and helpful (they may well be) hasn't stopped them from adding requirements that most other offices do not. Those are not rumours but first hand reports of additional requirements.

[gghh]

What nonsense rumours are spread out here about HuaHin immigration?
It was always one of the most easy-to-deal-with and helpful offices.

That they are easy and helpful (they may well be) hasn't stopped them from adding requirements that most other offices do not. Those are not rumours but first hand reports of additional requirements.

Rumours. I am doing my extension in HuaHin since 10years, never ever had or heard of special requests.
Even this endless topic with TM28/30 is handled here pretty simple.

So when did they request what?

[sometimewoodworker]

Rumours. I am doing my extension in HuaHin since 10years, never ever had or heard of special requests.
Even this endless topic with TM28/30 is handled here pretty simple.

So when did they request what?

The information is on ThaiVisa some posted by ubonjoe who probably is the most knowledgeable poster, I don't think I ever seen him to be wrong on anything related to visa, immigration, immigration offices information. Do ask him.

[gghh]

Rumours. I am doing my extension in HuaHin since 10years, never ever had or heard of special requests.
Even this endless topic with TM28/30 is handled here pretty simple.

So when did they request what?

The information is on ThaiVisa some posted by ubonjoe who probably is the most knowledgeable poster, I don't think I ever seen him to be wrong on anything related to visa, immigration, immigration offices information. Do ask him.

For what reason should I ask him?

Me and many others have absolutely no problems with HuaHin immigration.
That's it.

[sometimewoodworker]

Rumours. I am doing my extension in HuaHin since 10years, never ever had or heard of special requests.
Even this endless topic with TM28/30 is handled here pretty simple.

So when did they request what?

The information is on ThaiVisa some posted by ubonjoe who probably is the most knowledgeable poster, I don't think I ever seen him to be wrong on anything related to visa, immigration, immigration offices information. Do ask him.

For what reason should I ask him?

Me and many others have absolutely no problems with HuaHin immigration.
That's it.

You asked for information on the extra documents some some people have been asked to produce.

I gave you the way to find that out.

If you don't want to do that why did you ask?

If you don't want to know that is also your choice.

[AA Ins Broker]

Good post!
Let's just wait and see. There is NO point in starting rumors (or spreading gossip) that will just get every ones anxiety level up and start this whole debate over again. As said the idiot IO's down South are a law to their own = scare the Farang into paying more graft?

An extension based on retirement is NOT subject to the health insurance introduction on 31st Oct or any other date (as the new rules stand today). End of story!

The examples are from the stated IO only and the extension based on retirement is subject to the health cover now – if you first entered Thailand on an OA

Peter

[AA Ins Broker]

Peter
[/quote]
Are you talking about Hua Hin immigration office? If so then it is one of the small number of office's that has been known to have invented some extra requirements in the past.

Knowing which offices are concerned is rather important, while it certainly can change Udon has been remarkably sensible and certainly seems to be ignoring some of the recent changes, I see no reason to think Udon is going to change is stance without an amendment to a police order, possibly not even then.

It also seems that your customers are some what confused to say the least (something that seems to be only too easy with Thai immigration)

Thai Immigration will not issue a Non-O visa unless it is issued to someone who currently has a visa exempt entry, visa on arrival or a tourist visa and only for the reason that the holder is going to apply fo a 1 year extension to permit seasoning of the required money, never to a holder of a Non-OA. Apart from that case (I am deliberately ignoring the elite visa) visas are always issued outside Thailand.

Immigration will extend the permission to stay for a year from either a Non-O or a Non-OA.

Visas are never (despite the wording on the immigration website) extended, the reason for a visa is never changed.

The reason for a permission to stay extension can be changed, most commonly at the time of renewal.
[/quote]

Yes am talking about customer experiences in Hua Hin only and the problems it is causing and no, the customers are not confused, our staff have talked to the IO direct

[AA Ins Broker]

Peter so how much for an insurance that meets the requirement of 400000 inhouse and 40000 thb out, concidering i have free healthcare in norway and sweden as long im able to fly there and im 67 years old,have a bit high bloodpresure ,on medication 50 mg a day metoprolol and no other healthproblem? Thanks

Attached are examples of suitable coverage but note there are many more available from Thai and foreign companies

[samsam]

Thanks!