Ukrainian Passenger Plane Crashes in Iran.

[Drunk Monkey]

well buggar me .. is it now confirmed the Iranians actually shot the passenger plane down ??..

RRMS ... OMG

Rogue Raghead Misslie Strike

ARE WE SAYING the Uk s man for Iran Jeezza Al Corbynista is wrong again

DM

[jackspratt]

I must confess I was surprised by your earlier response, KP, and the fact you got it so wrong on so many levels.

We were used to certainty from you, because you could be relied upon to have checked, and re-checked, with your numerous contacts in high places before posting so definitively.

[choi choi]

Now they are saying US to blame! "Intimidated"
Bit like farangs fault here enit!

[jackspratt]

Who are "they"?

And what does your second sentence mean?

[choi choi]

You know perfectly well what "I mean" Spratt
The subject is concerning Iran. Go figure!
Just stirring the plot again are we?

[jackspratt]

If I knew perfectly well, I wouldn't have asked.

[Earnest]

Now they are saying US to blame! "Intimidated"
Bit like farangs fault here enit!

I think you mean this bit, old chap.

"Human error at time of crisis caused by US adventurism led to disaster," Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif tweeted.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/11/midd ... index.html

Always good to cite a quote, enit!

[tamada]

Ah Tamada, still attempting to ridicule a poster in a pathetic attempt to sound intelligent. At my time of posting there was nothing not even a hope that Iran would admit to even un-intentionally shooting down the plane, but it seems sanity took over, in other words admit a mistake rather than a deliberate attack, as POTUS and others stated it may have been unintentional, so the Iranians took that as the lesser of two evils . Had I known what was in their minds my post would have been different, BUT I was right they did clear the site in an attempt to distance themselves from any guilt, BUT JUST MAYBE THEY GOT CAUGHT.
PS: MY opinions are entirely unbiased ( even on Thailand ) and based on many years of living, each to their own, I rarely attack other posters for being wrong, delusional or even plain ignorant , unless they first attack me.

Thanks for staying (mostly) on topic (this time).

[Kenr6583]

It kind of sounds like Iran took a page out of Trump's playbook. Blame everyone else in order to deny culpability. Hell, Trump blames Obama for all of this happening.

[AlexO]

Iranian Armed Forces Say They Inadvertently Shot Down The Ukrainian Plane

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/01/i ... .html#more

You don't inadvertently/accidentally shoot down an aircraft. You target it, you fire a missile at it, the missile does its job strikes the target and kills it. The real reason is, that you are so ******* stupid, your brain so addled with praying 5 times a day and screaming anti west and hate filled rhetoric about the Great Satan AMERICA all day that you were unable to work out that the aircraft was in a commercial airspace, was probably still climbing from its very recent take off from Tehran and you were focused on 'its nearly time to pray again' Accidental my rear end.

[noosard]

"The aircraft came close to a sensitive IRGC military center at an altitude and flight condition that resembled hostile targeting. Under these circumstances, the aircraft was unintentionally hit,"
This is the statement I like to shift the blame

That jet like all the others coming and going was on the correct flight path leaving the airport and
Iran should have closed their airspace to all flights

[pipoz4444]

"The aircraft came close to a sensitive IRGC military center at an altitude and flight condition that resembled hostile targeting. Under these circumstances, the aircraft was unintentionally hit,"
This is the statement I like to shift the blame

That jet like all the others coming and going was on the correct flight path leaving the airport and
Iran should have closed their airspace to all flights

Correct and Pilots do not arbitrarily choose their flight paths, from and or into Airports, as far as I know. I was under the impression that the Air Traffic Controllers planned this route for them. I also suspect that the earlier departing flight from that airport, took the same departure path as the Ukranian flight, so what changed.

Maybe the nightshift came in at the IRGC in between flights or the IRGC is on wheels and so moved a kilometer or two in between flights. That make sense doesn’t it? "*******"

[Earnest]

Yes, I think you're right, I suspect all the other aeroplanes would have followed the same route. Pilots get told off when they start doing their own thing.

I've never liked pilots, readers.

But what about the Iranian protests yesterday demonstrating about the lies their government told them? And what about the effect it may have on their upcoming elections? The downing of this aeroplane changes the argument, doesn't it?

[tamada]

"The aircraft came close to a sensitive IRGC military center at an altitude and flight condition that resembled hostile targeting. Under these circumstances, the aircraft was unintentionally hit,"
This is the statement I like to shift the blame

That jet like all the others coming and going was on the correct flight path leaving the airport and
Iran should have closed their airspace to all flights

Correct and Pilots do not arbitrarily choose their flight paths, from and or into Airports, as far as I know. I was under the impression that the Air Traffic Controllers planned this route for them. I also suspect that the earlier departing flight from that airport, took the same departure path as the Ukranian flight, so what changed.

Maybe the nightshift came in at the IRGC in between flights or the IRGC is on wheels and so moved a kilometer or two in between flights. That make sense doesn’t it? "*******"

What changed was that the IRGC had just tweaked the nipples on Trump's manboobs and there was an undeclared state of high alert in case of reprisals. Their SAM battery guys were probably just told to 'watch out!' without any specifics.

A genuine mistake just like a un-tested USN missile man on the USS Vincennes who fired a SAM that brought down an Iranian airliner that had just taken off from the same airport way, way back in 1988.

Despite all the technology and fail-safes, it seems like anyone can still be guilty of having a trigger finger.

[tamada]

Yes, I think you're right, I suspect all the other aeroplanes would have followed the same route. Pilots get told off when they start doing their own thing.

I've never liked pilots, readers.

But what about the Iranian protests yesterday demonstrating about the lies their government told them? And what about the effect it may have on their upcoming elections? The downing of this aeroplane changes the argument, doesn't it?

In a civilized society, these demonstrations would mark another incremental shift against demagoguery. If the free press could pick up this batten and run with it, it would be more difficult for the Mullah's to stifle and repress (and murder). But I fear the media will quickly lose interest on things that can't confirmed first-hand and revert to reporting on the more accessible, daily, in-your-face demagoguery from Washington DC instead.

[tamada]

"The aircraft came close to a sensitive IRGC military center at an altitude and flight condition that resembled hostile targeting. Under these circumstances, the aircraft was unintentionally hit,"
This is the statement I like to shift the blame

That jet like all the others coming and going was on the correct flight path leaving the airport and
Iran should have closed their airspace to all flights

Correct and Pilots do not arbitrarily choose their flight paths, from and or into Airports, as far as I know. I was under the impression that the Air Traffic Controllers planned this route for them. I also suspect that the earlier departing flight from that airport, took the same departure path as the Ukranian flight, so what changed.

Maybe the nightshift came in at the IRGC in between flights or the IRGC is on wheels and so moved a kilometer or two in between flights. That make sense doesn’t it? "*******"

What changed was that the IRGC had just tweaked the nipples on Trump's manboobs and there was an undeclared state of high alert in case of reprisals. Their SAM battery guys were probably just told to 'watch out!' without any specifics. One guys situational awareness of departing scheduled, domestic flights could have been another less aware guys sudden enemy target. There's always the slight chance that the guy that pressed that 'fire' button wasn't a fan of the mullah's?

Or a genuine mistake just like a un-tested USN missile man on the USS Vincennes who fired a SAM that brought down an Iranian airliner that had just taken off from the same airport way, way back in 1988... or maybe he didn't like President Reagan?

Despite all the technology and fail-safes, it seems anyone can still be guilty of having a trigger finger.

[Earnest]

In a civilized society, these demonstrations would mark another incremental shift against demagoguery.

Demma-wot?

Crikey, stop using big words, you're not talking to your clever pals at St Andrews, I only scraped by with a 2:2 from the Open University.

Demagogue - I need to look that one up. A rabble rouser exploiting emotions, prejudice and ignorance, right?

I have to disagree with your post in the nicest possible way. Haven't the Iranians rejected the hardliners before and opted for a more moderate form of government?

That said, there is more than one power base in Iran and aside from the Mullahs, the people also have to contend with the Revolutionary Guard.

I myself have never visited Iran.

[tamada]

^ I have flown over Iran but like yourself, never visited. I thought the Mullahs and the IRGC lived off each other's need for ultimate control and repression? Bedfellows for want of a better word? Same same in Thailand really but at least we still have the somtam.

I am trying to recall any period between the ousting of the Shah and the present day when there was anything like a moderate government. I can only recall steely-eyed, angry wee -----stirrers being President. The few, like Khatami, that spoke with moderates and encouraged dialog were run out of town on a rail or subsequently vilified after leaving office. For example:

"Currently the Iranian media are forbidden on the orders of Tehran's prosecutor from publishing pictures of Khatami, or quoting his words, on account of his support for the defeated reformist candidates in the disputed 2009 re-election of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Khatami

PS. It was Gordonstoun not St Andrews.

[glalt]

Have the Udon Map expert pilots figured it out yet? Had to be a massive engine explosion....... No wait, it is Boeing's fault. Boeing aircraft are no good........ An Iran missile? impossible!..... Wait, I got it. It was Trump's fault. That reason will satisfy a number of our local experts.

[Earnest]

I've never liked pilots but you can take it as given that I am an expert in most things, old chap. Eat your heart out, KP.

I am trying to recall any period between the ousting of the Shah and the present day when there was anything like a moderate government. I can only recall steely-eyed, angry wee -----stirrers being President. The few, like Khatami, that spoke with moderates and encouraged dialog were run out of town on a rail or subsequently vilified after leaving office.

Yes, Khatami, that's the chap!

There does seem to be some appetite for change in Iran, though. I also think that the assassination of someone like Qasem Soleimani might create conditions for a better government. That and the US sanctions (worked last time, readers).

Gordonstoun, I knew you were posh. I remember running near there as part of an Elgin 10K or Half-Marathon or something (I forget) back in the 90s.