The lack of evidence lockdowns actually worked is ...

[Whistler]

OK CJD, show me an article that proves the theory of herd immunity as an effective strategy for COVID 19

[cjd01]

https://thevaccinereaction.org/2018/06/ ... ination-2/

[Whistler]

Oh good Lord, anti-vaxers. This is an opinion piece, not proof.

Do you believe this rubbish or are you just being obtuse?

How about you go back and get a real honest to goodness scientific article that says herd immunity works with COVID 19.

[cjd01]

say what
Dr. Arthur W. Hedrich, a health officer in Chicago, Illinois. He observed that, “during 1900-1930, outbreaks of measles in Boston, MA appeared to be suppressed when 68 percent of the children contracted the virus.”
No mention of anti vaxers in the 1930's

[Whistler]

COVID 19, not measles.

BTW measles killed 180,000 kids over this period, when a vaccine was introduced this toll dropped so by 2000 the US declared the disease had been eliminated.

However no studies, zero, zip, nada have shown COVID 19 can be overcome with so called heard immunity.

just more troll like activity from CJD

[cjd01]

Whistler
we can run around the internet for ever, you'll find a supporting article and I'll go and find the opposite view.
many of our "experts" are later proved wrong.
The initial Covid models from Ferguson I think his name was, were wildly over exaggerated
but here we are frightened to come out of homes through fear.
I went to lunch with my wife today and we drove past our local hospital, my wife commented how few cars and bikes were there normally you wouldn't get in for hours. The people here are frightened to go case they catch the virus.
You can have all the opinions you want and call me a troll up to you as I pointed out before I'm happy in my own beliefs and 100% you won't influence me in any way, sorry but a fact not theory.

[Whistler]

Ha ha, find one article, just one, not many, only one.

Otherwise you have just proven that you are not serious in your beliefs at all, just a troll

[joudon]

Regarding the UK figures for death in this period.I for one would like to be given the exact breakdown of the reasins for death
How many flu. How many heat attacks. Strokes .Organ failures etc ...Simply put how many deaths would have occured without covid
I doubt these figures will ever be published as I believe fear of covid has been used for a different reason or reasons.

[cjd01]

Try paragraphs 3 and 4 of the article I posted
I don't know what's your problem but selective hearing and reading is definitely a major issue.
anyway up to you

[cjd01]

Regarding the UK figures for death in this period.I for one would like to be given the exact breakdown of the reasins for death
How many flu. How many heat attacks. Strokes .Organ failures etc ...Simply put how many deaths would have occured without covid
I doubt these figures will ever be published as I believe fear of covid has been used for a different reason or reasons.

It's a good question
unfortunately doesn't suit the current narrative or agenda
You will of course be ridiculed for having any independent thought.

[Whistler]

Try paragraphs 3 and 4 of the article I posted
I don't know what's your problem but selective hearing and reading is definitely a major issue.
anyway up to you
I think the word troll might be self explanatory

I will no longer feed the TROLL

[noosard]

Which brings us to why herd immunity could never be considered a preventative measure.

If 70 percent of your population is infected with a disease, it is by definition not prevention. How can it be? Most of the people in your country are sick!

Now this statement is crap
70% of the pop has had the virus so they are not sick but immune
That is what herd immunity is about
Again just playing with the wording

How effective is the flu vaccine each year
Real numbers is less than 50%
So all these people waiting for vaccine are living in pipe dream

[Whistler]

Ok, CJ, lets update this thread every month and see actual v's projected.

Plug in your stats and I will plug in mine

June 30 550,000 deaths
July 31 700,000 deaths
August 31 830,000 deaths

I only think three months make sense. Of course there will be dead set lies from many countries, but we cannot factor that in.

Honestly
It's not that important to me to always be right, I am well aware I'm often wrong in what I think (correction one time several years ago)
but I don't need to update I'm sure you'll do it, that's who you are.
I have often said that just because I'm here in Thailand I wouldn't bother with people that I wouldn't give the time of day to in Australia well with this virus situation Hows that working out for me.
anyway you continue on, as a favor to a special friend could you find some more interesting things to keep me awake I am quite old and get up rather early.

Lockdowns dont work? it's just the flu

I got ridiculed when I pointed out how serious this was going to be by those that followed the incredibly flawed statements from Trump, Right Wing commentators etc.

Well instead of 550,000 deaths, we have 510,000, that more than validates the model my company developed. Countries that managed their lockdown well are back in business, those that did not are in chaos and having to reintroduce lockdowns.

What is working?

Lockdowns
Social distancing
Tracking
Widespread testing
Masks\Washing hands

All of these strategies were bleeding obvious many months ago, what is more, they contribute to opening up the economy faser because they manage the crisis with tough up-front decisions. Smart countries saved lives and opened their economies sooner. These countries included Conservative governments like Australia's

Idiots like the Bunker Bitch and Boris failed their countries. Those that followed American the denial, neo-con policies that have plagued the USA still cannot fathom the simple fact that strategies must be Science based not based on same idiotic flawed political ideology backed up by lies and BS

[noosard]

There has not been any widespread testing done
but a few small populations have tested up to 41.2%
Russia at No 17 of tests per pop has tested 13.4%
Singapore at No 21 of tests per pop has tested 11.6%

[Whistler]

There has not been any widespread testing done
but a few small populations have tested up to 41.2%
Russia at No 17 of tests per pop has tested 13.4%
Singapore at No 21 of tests per pop has tested 11.6%

Widespread testing does not necessarily have to be random. Testing people with symptoms, testing contacts from infected people, testing everybody that enters the country etc. A great example, after trumps closing the boarder statement, the border was wide open for returning Americas who were not tested on arrival. in one month over 40,000 returned, were not tested and brought Covid back with them from hostpots like Italy and Spain. Mindnumbingly stupid.

[Khun Paul]

Judging by some of the Political and people hype, it has been stated that testing will enable countries to see if the virus is spreading. Lockdown just curtail its spread and hopefully with other actions like face masks, hand washing and distancing slow the spread down.
However we have all read vast swathes of some countries decried the rules and regulations even to the point of alleging
that face masks interfered with breathing something God gave us the ability to do. Plus the constant drip drip of counter so-called scientific experts knocking this or that. I am amazed that the death toll is not HIGHER . Political leaders burying their head in the sand and refusing to comply with restrictions , all I can say is thank god we are not at war.
Common-sense went the way of the Dodo in this instance , everyone ran about like chickens w9ith their heads cut off . It is a Virus, not a nice one agreed but a BLOODY VIRUS , unable to be killed or beaten or even eradicated, yet each and every year Thousands die from FLU ( another VIRUS ) yet we do not shut down the entire world do we, wew take precautions, medicines etc and we survive, some may not that is sad.
So Lockdowns, testing are purely window-dressing to make us think Governments are doing something which they are not, it will run its course and become less virulent hopefully but that as they say is in the lap of the Gods. Not us mere mortals.

[Whistler]

Judging by some of the Political and people hype, it has been stated that testing will enable countries to see if the virus is spreading. Lockdown just curtail its spread and hopefully with other actions like face masks, hand washing and distancing slow the spread down.
However we have all read vast swathes of some countries decried the rules and regulations even to the point of alleging
that face masks interfered with breathing something God gave us the ability to do. Plus the constant drip drip of counter so-called scientific experts knocking this or that. I am amazed that the death toll is not HIGHER . Political leaders burying their head in the sand and refusing to comply with restrictions , all I can say is thank god we are not at war.
Common-sense went the way of the Dodo in this instance , everyone ran about like chickens w9ith their heads cut off . It is a Virus, not a nice one agreed but a BLOODY VIRUS , unable to be killed or beaten or even eradicated, yet each and every year Thousands die from FLU ( another VIRUS ) yet we do not shut down the entire world do we, wew take precautions, medicines etc and we survive, some may not that is sad.
So Lockdowns, testing are purely window-dressing to make us think Governments are doing something which they are not, it will run its course and become less virulent hopefully but that as they say is in the lap of the Gods. Not us mere mortals.

Yeah, just another flu. That fact that it has been eradicated from the general population of several countries seems to be lost on you.

[noosard]

There has not been any widespread testing done
but a few small populations have tested up to 41.2%
Russia at No 17 of tests per pop has tested 13.4%
Singapore at No 21 of tests per pop has tested 11.6%

Widespread testing does not necessarily have to be random. Testing people with symptoms, testing contacts from infected people, testing everybody that enters the country etc. A great example, after trumps closing the boarder statement, the border was wide open for returning Americas who were not tested on arrival. in one month over 40,000 returned, were not tested and brought Covid back with them from hostpots like Italy and Spain. Mindnumbingly stupid.

So please explain the mean of widespread testing
I did not mention random

[noosard]

Yeah, just another flu. That fact that it has been eradicated from the general population of several countries seems to be lost on you.
[/quote]

It maybe eradicated in a few countries or states
but at what cost and for how long
For the near future do not expect any thing like normal lives to return
No work for hundreds of millions
Who will end paying for this

Sweden may prove to be right in the long term
Stay open but social distancing
Try and protect the vulnerable

By the way it not another flu but a serious cold

[noosard]

Just read an article that majority of people may be immune from the virus

Conversation.

“Data from military ships and cities such as Stockholm, New York and London also suggest that infections have been around 20 per cent – much lower than earlier mathematical models suggested.

“This has led to speculation about whether a population can achieve some sort of immunity to the virus with as little as 20 per cent infected – a proportion well below the widely accepted herd immunity threshold (of 60 to 70 per cent).”

What’s behind this behaviour? Is it merely an anomaly or a sign the pandemic might end sooner than initially feared?

Cause for optimism has been fuelled by additional speculation about the potential of a “immunological dark matter”, Prof Franks and Prof Rocklov said.

It’s a kind of pre-existing immunity that can’t be detected in COVID-19 antibody testing.

“Antibodies are produced by the body’s B-cells in response to a specific virus. Dark matter, however, involves a feature of the innate immune system termed ‘T-cell mediated immunity’.

“Studies show that people infected with (COVID-19) indeed have T-cells that are programmed to fight this virus. Surprisingly, people never infected also harbour protective T-cells, probably because they have been exposed to other coronaviruses.

If this turns out to be real or true the world may be saved shortly without a miracle vaccine