Non Immigrant O or OA Visa

[pipoz4444]

I am not confusing anything STWW, I know they are two different scenarios with requirements and I am not suggesting the same.

Only on O-A: In the first case, I am just stating what my friend actually did or had to go through for his requirement to stay in Thailand, (this last month), when he decided not to extend his O-A for the second year and decided to move over to reason of Retirement. I am not surmising. As to whether the Thai Immigration at PK would accept, the less cover as you suggests, the answer he got would appear to be Not Possible, in PK,as they insisted that he have the Minimum the TB 400,000, from what I am told. This guy is not flush with cash and wont spend anymore than he has to.

As to the second insurance matter, i.e.r Foreigners re-entering Thailand on whatever Visa they have, I am just stating what appears to be the obvious,at present for those who are currently trying to re-enter. Namely that they will need USD 100,000 Insurance Policy with Covid-19 cover, which yes, is a different Insurance policy to that above. Some of these Foreigner's, re-entering Thailand, are coming back on Long Stay arrangement, are they not? Some are on Work Visas and some on Retirement with Families and like like my friend above, they will both stay in Thailand for the next 12 Months. I also have a different friend who is currently going through the re-entry exercise.

Regarding. "Also if you have an O-A visa or re-entry permit from an O-A Visa/extension of stay and enter Thailand you must show the insurance you got when you got the visa or extension" - STWW: Are you suggesting that if my first friend(Pk) leaves Thailand for a holiday (now) only with having his B 400,000 Insurance in tow, that he can re-enter with that same insurance without the need to get the SD 100,000 Insurance with Covid-19 Cover.

STWW: Can I ask which Thai Insurance Company is presently offering Long Stay Medical Insurance at a Premium of TB 12,0000, with 200,000 excess, that the Thai Immigration will willingly accept for the purpose of extending ones Long Stay visas.

I haven't seen anyone on this Forum mention, that you have managed to get their Long Stay Visa extended , whist producing a Thai Insurance Policy that has a significant high Policy Excess of 200,000 or more.

For the Thai Immigration to accept an Insurance Policy Excess with a very high Policy Excess for those on Long Stay arrangements, doesn't make sense and would tend to negate the Thai Government's reasoning for insisting that O-A Long Staying Foreigner have an Insurance Policy in the first place, which is presumably pay for their hospital Bills. If one cannot afford the initial Policy Premium, then one is unlikely to be able to afford to pay the B 200,000 plus Excess when the time comes, in hospital

pipoz4444

[sometimewoodworker]

I am not confusing anything STWW, I know they are two different scenarios with requirements and I am not suggesting the same.

Only on O-A: In the first case, I am just stating what my friend actually did or had to go through for his requirement to stay in Thailand, (this last month), when he decided not to extend his O-A for the second year and decided to move over to reason of Retirement. I am not surmising. As to whether the Thai Immigration at PK would accept, the less cover as you suggests, the answer he got would appear to be Not Possible, in PK,as they insisted that he have the Minimum the TB 400,000, from what I am told. This guy is not flush with cash and wont spend anymore than he has to.


STWW: Can I ask which Thai Insurance Company is presently offering Long Stay Medical Insurance at a Premium of TB 12,0000, with 200,000 excess, that the Thai Immigration will willingly accept for the purpose of extending ones Long Stay visas.

I haven't seen anyone on this Forum mention, that you have managed to get their Long Stay Visa extended , whist producing a Thai Insurance Policy that has a significant high Policy Excess of 200,000 or more.

For the Thai Immigration to accept an Insurance Policy Excess with a very high Policy Excess for those on Long Stay arrangements, doesn't make sense and would tend to negate the Thai Government's reasoning for insisting that O-A Long Staying Foreigner have an Insurance Policy in the first place, which is presumably pay for their hospital Bills. If one cannot afford the initial Policy Premium, then one is unlikely to be able to afford to pay the B 200,000 plus Excess when the time comes, in hospital

pipoz4444

You talked about 2 long stay insurance rules, there is only 1.


The information on the policy, company and people who have used it with immigration for OA extensions is on ThaiVisa it is one of the accepted insurance companies listed by immigration. It has been used by several people who have reported on it. The excess is 200,000 to get the low premium. As it isn’t needed for my extensions I didn’t make a note of exact details

The policy has the requirement specified by immigration, the cover is not less than required. That he didn’t find out about i it doesn’t change it’s availability or suitability.

As to immigration making sense, TIT immigration

Regarding. "Also if you have an O-A visa or re-entry permit from an O-A Visa/extension of stay and enter Thailand you must show the insurance you got when you got the visa or extension" - STWW: Are you suggesting that if my first friend(Pk) leaves Thailand for a holiday (now) only with having his B 400,000 Insurance in tow, that he can re-enter with that same insurance without the need to get the SD 100,000 Insurance with Covid-19 Cover.

No, he must have the insurance he got when extending his permission to stay.
He must have US$100,000 COVID-19 cover. AFIK they could be the same policy or 2 different policies.

As I mentioned the period of coverage required for COVID-19 is not clear

Although this discussion is pointless at the moment since it is unlikely that he would get permission to enter Thailand as people with retirement extensions are not one of the permitted groups & if they were it is very difficult and likely to cost ฿200,000 just for the flight and quarantine hotel.

[pipoz4444]

OK let me clarify my point in my first Post and what was behind it . Have two similar Friends in different circumstances at present, as related to living under long stay arrangements in Thailand

Friend No 1: He was on an One Year O-A Multiple Entry (Long Stay) and had been in Thailand for 11 months. Friend No 1 (whilst sitting in Thailand) decided to move from his One Year O-A arrangement to a One Year Retirement (Long Stay arrangement).

So in order to do that he had to get his medical Insurance in order. So, Friend No 1 then went obtained his Long Stay Medical Insurance Policy for the TB 400,000/ TB 40,000, as he was told to do by the Thai Immigration. He did not purchase it through one of the 14 listed Companies, he purchased it from a Company outside of Thailand. Plus this Policy does not specifically cover Covid-19.

Now Friend No 1 has obtained his new One Year Retirement, the right to stay in Thailand, for the next 12 months.


Friend No 2: He actually moved permanently to Thailand at the same time as Friend No 1, in June 2019. At that time Friend No 2 had already obtained his One Year Multiple Entry O-A from the Thai Embassy, some 6 months earlier. Before the first 12 month’s time of his O-A multiple was up, Friend No 2 decided to fly out of Thailand and fly back in, this allowing his Non Imm O-A, to cancel itself. Thus Friend No 2 proceeded to re-enter Thailand, late year as a Tourist on a 30 day Visa.

Then, whilst in Bangkok, Friend No 2 applied for a 90 day “O” type Visa. Towards the end of his 90 days on his O Visa, Friend No 2 then applied for and transferred over to his One Year Retirement Visa (Permission to Stay). This then gave Friend No 2 the right to stay in Thailand for the next 12 months, much like Friend No 1, has now.

Whilst Friend No 2 didn’t need Medical Insurance to stay in Thailand at that time, Friend No 2 went an bought his Medical Insurance from one of the Thailand Companies (One of the 14 on the long stay list). In early 2020, before Covid-19, Friend No 2 took out a Policy with a Limit of about TB 3.00 Million (much more than what Friend No 1 has today)

Friend No 2 then decided to go on a holiday to …………..and left Thailand in late February 2020. He became stuck outside Thailand, along with his TB 3.0 Million Insurance Policy and with his One Year Retirement Visa (Permission to Stay), still active and is currently stuck in a Country with near no active cases.

However Friend No 2 cannot re-enter Thailand using his TB 3.0 Million Insurance Policy, even with his One Year Retirement Visa still current (not due for extension until December 2020). Friend No 2 has a legitimate reason to re-enter Thailand under the more recent lifting of some restrictions, but has been advised that he cannot re-enter on his TB 3.0 Million Insurance Policy and that he must purchase the $100,000 USD Policy with Covid 19 cover, because the policy he has does not specifically state it covers Covid 19.

So when Friend No 2 does get back, he will have had to purchase a different Insurance Policy from that which Friend No 1 has, so that he can pass through the Airport. Friend No 2 being made to get a Policy for his $100,000 USD with Covid-19 cover, so he can return to Thailand and sit next to Friend No 1. The two Friends can then sit next to each other and have a beer, and also swap Passports, which will have presumably near identical Thai Immigration Stamps in them, but their Insurance Policies will be different from each other, for the next 12 months

Similarities: Both Friends No 1 & Friend No 2, will have the same permission to stay, each for another year or so. Both have the same reason for residing in Thailand. Both have Passports of equal weight, from similar parts of the World and both are nearly the same age. Both are not married to a Thai.

Differences: One is sitting in Thailand at present and the other is trying to get back into Thailand. However, they will have different Medical Insurance Policies, for the next 12 months or so and each will have paid totally different Premium for the right to have that beer together.

From where I sit, both are Long Stay Foreigners.

I trust this clarifies part of the reason for the Posts

Yes, and I realize it is a lengthy Post, but it might just highlight how F..f..d the rules are at present, for those in Thailand vs those outside Thailand

pipoz4444

[sometimewoodworker]

The information is interesting.

Your post has illustrated that immigration entry requirements are changeable dependent on many factors, the current world situation is unprecedented, while the 1918 Flue may have been as bad or worse the situation today is that there is less information being hidden.

Countries will have various requirements for allowing entry for non citizens, if they are allowed to enter at all. We can highlight the Thai situation, today it’s probably similar to quite a few other countries. With the sudden closing of most countries borders and the prevalence of international travel hundreds of thousands of people will be having problems.

I’m not surprised that 2 people will have to have different conditions to stay/enter, even though their situation is very similar.

It’s a little like 2 people on the same flight in the same class are likely to have paid a different price for their tickets. Years ago the ticket prices were mostly similar, today quite possibly everyone is paying a different price.

Thailand is hardly unique in the differences for stay and entry, it may be a little more unusual but not much.

That that the insurance F2 has is not OK to enter isn’t amazing as the requirement is for the insurance to explicitly cover COVID-19 implicit coverage isn’t enough as the insurance company may be able to avoid paying potentially leaving Thailand to pay.

You could very probably have a similar kind of story for many countries.

Safe to say the situation is messed up and will take months or years to get back to normal, or a new normal anyway.
Thailand looks as if it may be in a better, or safer, situation than most of our home countries.

FWIW hear is one person’s story of a recent 10 day, he thought, visa trip https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/i-fl ... new-normal

[pipoz4444]

STWW,

I should add that Friend No 2 is very closely attached to a female, well up the food chain of Thai Immigration, at the largest TI Office in BKK and it is her that has advised him that his USD 100,000 Covid -19 Insurance Policy will need to cover him, for the full remaining period of his One Year Retirement Visa (Permission to Stay), i.e. up to the date of when it is due to be extended.

As to whether he can get a 4.5 month Policy from one of the rouge Companies, I don't know. If not, then he will need to cough up for a full 12 months.

Maybe in due course TI will formally drop the specific requirement for Covid-19 from the policy coverage and just insist that any Foreigner re-entering has his/hers USD 100,000 worth of of Policy coverage.

But at this time for any Foreigner planning on leaving Thailand soon and then shortly return, the requirement as to what Insurance Policy he must have in his pocket when he walk back through the BBK Airport, is anything but certain.

pipoz4444

[pipoz4444]

Nice STWW

FWIW hear is one person’s story of a recent 10 day, he thought, visa trip https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/i-fl ... new-normal

I can just see this enticing the more typical budget conscious Tourist back to Thailand You certainly won't see any backpackers under the conditions which this gentleman experienced

pipoz4444

[samster]

Although this discussion is pointless at the moment since it is unlikely that he would get permission to enter Thailand as people with retirement extensions are not one of the permitted groups & if they were it is very difficult and likely to cost ฿200,000 just for the flight and quarantine hotel.

Irrelevant to the subject matter but, THB 200,000 is very much at the top end. More likely that quarantine and flight will be less than THB 100,000.

From an insurance perspective, there are products out there but, clearly, the cost depends upon quality of cover and whether you want to gamble on getting something which may not be acceptable.

I have been corresponding with a major International Broker. They have pointed me in the direction of a Company who will provide what appears to be, an all embracing Covid/General Health Insurance product which fulfills Immigration requirements (a letter is issued confirming this).

I havent fully reviewed the paperwork yet as I am in no position to return until the criteria for returnees changes. My initial impression is that cost starts at around THB 40,000 per annum for early 50 year old with no OPD and go up to around THB 130,000.

[sometimewoodworker]

Although this discussion is pointless at the moment since it is unlikely that he would get permission to enter Thailand as people with retirement extensions are not one of the permitted groups & if they were it is very difficult and likely to cost ฿200,000 just for the flight and quarantine hotel.

Irrelevant to the subject matter but, THB 200,000 is very much at the top end. More likely that quarantine and flight will be less than THB 100,000.

No it isn’t.
Did you reed the linked article?
Yes there are quarantine hotels at about 24,000 but you won’t be able to book them your going to be at 70,000+ for quarantine
Yes there are economy tickets But your probably going to have to fly business class as the economy tickets will be taken up by retuning Thai people.

And none of that takes into account the running backward and forwards for your COVID test embassy paperwork and everything else. So if you get change from 200,000 you’ll be doing well.

If you budget for at least 6 weeks round trip and a minimum of the 200,000 for the return and have money left, congratulations. If you think you can do it faster and only have 100,000 for the return and run out of cash and you can’t you only have one person to blame.

The world has changed. Nothing is going to be easy.

[samster]

Although this discussion is pointless at the moment since it is unlikely that he would get permission to enter Thailand as people with retirement extensions are not one of the permitted groups & if they were it is very difficult and likely to cost ฿200,000 just for the flight and quarantine hotel.

Irrelevant to the subject matter but, THB 200,000 is very much at the top end. More likely that quarantine and flight will be less than THB 100,000.

No it isn’t.
Did you reed the linked article?
Yes there are quarantine hotels at about 24,000 but you won’t be able to book them your going to be at 70,000+ for quarantine
Yes there are economy tickets But your probably going to have to fly business class as the economy tickets will be taken up by retuning Thai people.

And none of that takes into account the running backward and forwards for your COVID test embassy paperwork and everything else. So if you get change from 200,000 you’ll be doing well.

If you budget for at least 6 weeks round trip and a minimum of the 200,000 for the return and have money left, congratulations. If you think you can do it faster and only have 100,000 for the return and run out of cash and you can’t you only have one person to blame.

The world has changed. Nothing is going to be easy.

Sorry STWW, I respect your many posts on visas which have helped me before but, on this one, my personal experience confirms that, for flights and quarantine alone, 100,000 is nearer the mark.

[dunroaming]

100000 that's o my a couple of days shopping at Robinson's for SMWW

[AlexO]

Although this discussion is pointless at the moment since it is unlikely that he would get permission to enter Thailand as people with retirement extensions are not one of the permitted groups & if they were it is very difficult and likely to cost ฿200,000 just for the flight and quarantine hotel.

Irrelevant to the subject matter but, THB 200,000 is very much at the top end. More likely that quarantine and flight will be less than THB 100,000.

No it isn’t.
Did you reed the linked article?
Yes there are quarantine hotels at about 24,000 but you won’t be able to book them your going to be at 70,000+ for quarantine
Yes there are economy tickets But your probably going to have to fly business class as the economy tickets will be taken up by retuning Thai people.

And none of that takes into account the running backward and forwards for your COVID test embassy paperwork and everything else. So if you get change from 200,000 you’ll be doing well.

If you budget for at least 6 weeks round trip and a minimum of the 200,000 for the return and have money left, congratulations. If you think you can do it faster and only have 100,000 for the return and run out of cash and you can’t you only have one person to blame.

The world has changed. Nothing is going to be easy.

Sorry STWW, I respect your many posts on visas which have helped me before but, on this one, my personal experience confirms that, for flights and quarantine alone, 100,000 is nearer the mark.

Come on samster what personal experience do you have to prove that a quarantine hotel plus one way flight is 100K Baht. Where and from who, is this available at around 100K. Then by your own admission medical insurance can be anywhere between 40K and 130K baht on top. You need to be pretty desperate to want to vacation in Thailand with those costs and restrictions. Granted people with families/ businesses will be willing to pay these costs but run of the mill tourists???

[sometimewoodworker]

Sorry STWW, I respect your many posts on visas which have helped me before but, on this one, my personal experience confirms that, for flights and quarantine alone, 100,000 is nearer the mark.

So you didn’t bother to read the article! And you are restricting the costs to flight and quarantine which is not what you need to pay and not what I have posted.

Quarantine hotel only 77,000 could easily have to go north of 120,000 as you can’t book ahead due to the paperwork you have to get before you are permitted to fly.

Your quote for insurance 40,000 minimum

To me that is already at 117,000 but maybe your math is “new math”

Flight, as I said you will probably have to fly at the front so probably at least 50,000

Again to me you are at 167,000

At that point you don’t have a COVID test
You don’t have the clearance to enter Thailand etc.

And if your test doesn’t come back clear you forfeit the ASQ fee because you can’t fly and it’s within 72 hours and you may well have difficulty with your cancellation of your flight.

A Thai citizen can get back for much less a foreigner can only do that with a lot of luck and hard work.

As I said budget for at least 200,000 and if it costs less you are lucky.
Or only have 100,000 available and if you are not lucky you will not be coming back as soon as you would like & could have lost quite a bit of that.

Your money, your life, your choices. But don’t mislead others.

[samster]

Ho hum.

Please read your post and my post again. To quote you "likely to cost 200,000 JUST for the flight and quarantine hotel ". I simply tried in a polite way to correct this

I added in comments about insurance to try and help as it is a subject I know a fair bit about and would be happy to share my 40+ years in the business

To deal with the cynicism of Alex O etc, I packed my partner back off to Thailand on a repatriation flight on 9/8/20 and thoroughly researched all aspects. The flight was £680 which I could have joined her on if eligible and the ASQ hotels start at 32000. With my maths that comes in at significantly less than 100,000.

It might help if people read the posts rather than trying to score points.

You do know guys that there are other people on here who have brains and opinions dont you!?

[tamada]

^ Thai repatriation pax get Coach as the priority. Based on the reports of several foreigners who have managed to secure a seat on a repatriation flight, they had no option but to pay for and fly Business or First. They also commented that low and mid range priced ASQ's are oversold so they had to pay extra for the premium rooms, suites and the like.

If you had chosen to return with your partner, you would have had to fly front of the bus and you would not have been able to stay in shared ASQ or the cheaper room next door.

[sometimewoodworker]

To deal with the cynicism of Alex O etc, I packed my partner back off to Thailand on a repatriation flight on 9/8/20 and thoroughly researched all aspects. The flight was £680 which I could have joined her on if eligible and the ASQ hotels start at 32000. With my maths that comes in at significantly less than 100,000.

As I said Thai citizens will not need to pay the high prices that foreign travelers will have to.

The lowest price of ASQ hotel is around 28,000. You will almost certainly not get that read the report of a foreign traveler Thai travellers costs are virtually irrelevant
Higher cost hotels go for over 140,000 much more chance of that price or a higher end one. You will not be able to book far enough ahead to get the best price ASQ
You may well HAVE to pay for business or first class.

I have constantly talked about the complete cost of returning and insurance is mandatory so you have to include that.

Yes if you assume that 1) you can travel economy, 2) that you ignore the insurance, 3) that you can book the bottom end ASQ at short notice you can say that it costs well under 100,000

But since 1 is probably not true, 2 is absolutely not true and 3 has almost no chance of happening your numbers are not correct. Do please report on a recent foreign traveler and include the all real costs not a cherry picked subset.

You can probably go online and buy a ticket to Thailand for a reasonable price, but the flight will be cancelled, or you will not be allowed to board as the only flights that carry passengers are being arranged by the Thai Embassy’s.

The world travel system has changed.

It will change again at some indeterminate date in the future, travel will become easier. If you have to travel now you have few choices and it’s very expensive,

[samster]

STWW, as I have said before I acknowledge your relative expertise in some aspects and have followed your advice succesfully previously. However, when you are incorrect, stop flogging a dead horse. This forum is to help others which is what I am trying to do from personal experience.

Of course there will be many reports by disgruntled individuals who dont plan, are unable to be flexible or are just plain unlucky but, there are also many who dont comment because they achieve their aim.

I am not point scoring but ....

Facts:-
1.You clearly said "flights and ASQ only". I was simply correcting the terminology to help others as you have many times on other threads.
2. I have not commented on costs for Thais. You are correct, that is irrelevant.
3. You are correct that ASQ hotels can be expensive but, equally there are many much cheaper options that expats have successfully booked......or are they standing empty!
4. Yes, you MAY have to fly business but, that depends on your preparation and ability to be flexible. My partner sat next to a falang and to quote her, economy was about 80/20 Thai/falang so, many succeeded.
5. I have not ignored insurance and commented on this separately. If anyone wants guidance on this, i am happy to help.

My partner and I prepared for her return and were ready to act as soon as flights became available. I had a contingency plan if the rules changed and I was able to join her. We knew it was unlikely but the cost would have been less than 100,000 plus insurance. As with most things, preparation is the key.

As far as your comment Tam, we were aware that we couldn't have shared a room with ASQ. She is actually delighted to now be staying alone in a room with 3 beds in a 4 star hotel in Jomtien at the governments expense and would have been happy to get a 2 week break from me if I had been able to return!!

[tamada]

An acquaintance of mine, a Canadian who has been battling the less helpful Thai Embassy in Ottawa for a few months is finally here doing ASQ at Siam Mandarina for 42,000 baht. Not sure what class of air travel he came in on but it is assumed via Europe based on travel time. With @samster's partner's observation that there were foreigners in Coach, maybe the peak of Thai repatriation has eased? Definitely the reports on Thaivisa from at least three foreigners who returned maybe a month ago did indicate that with their bookings done via Thai embassies, Coach wasn't a choice, let alone an option.

I have another mate hoping to repatriate to Thailand from Saudi soon. His current, all-in budget is 150-170 k.

[tamada]

^ Update. The guy in ASQ paid around 29,000 baht for Coach o/w on Cathay Pacific with a short stopover in HKG.

[sometimewoodworker]

^ Update. The guy in ASQ paid around 29,000 baht for Coach o/w on Cathay Pacific with a short stopover in HKG.

From?
Arranged by?

[pipoz4444]

For those, who may be contemplating a trip in October, some of the current Package offers on the web. Probably not the correct spot to post. Link below at the end.

Grande Center Point (Thonglor) are offering a package of a Deluxe room 40 m2, for B 62,000 for 15 nights, which includes free Airport Pick up and 3 meals a day, plus some extra add on's.

Movenpick (Ploenchit) are offering a Deluxe room 42 m2, for B 60,300 for 14 nights, which includes transport from airport to hospital to hotel (much the same as above), plus first night observation in the hospital, free SARS-COC-2 test in day 1, my 3 meals a day, consultation with Doctor and a Nurse to play with?

Hotel Clover Asoke (near Terminal 21, but you visit it) are offering a Standard room for B 47,000 and an Executive room for B 55,000 for 15 nights, which includes transport from airport to hospital to hotel, with much the same add on’s as above.

The Salil Hotel Sukhumvit 57 (Thonglor) are offering a Package of a Superior room 25 m2 - B 40,000 and a Deluxe room of 35 m2 - B 45,000, for 15 nights, which includes free Airport Pick up and 3 meals a day, with much the same add on’s as Movenpick and also apparently throw in the Nurse?

The Salil Hotel Sukhumvit Soi Thonglor 1, are offering a Package of a Deluxe room 35 m2 - B 55,000 and a Living suite room of 45 m2 - B 65,000, for 15 nights, with same add on’s as the Salil above

Royal Benja Hotel (Sukhumvit) are offering a Deluxe room 43 m2, for B 45,000 for 16 days with much the same add on’s as Movenpick and they also apparently throw in the Nurse?

Several other Hotels in the general Sukhumvit areas are offering packages a bit lower around B 40,000 for the 14-15 days stay, some Hotels further out of the city center are lower at B 29,000/32,000/35,000 (Depends on the room size) and others

So there is a wide range and arguably one can find something quite comfortable for their stay in Bangkok city area, for around B 40,000 for the 15 nights, give or take, according to their likes. At a package of B 60,000 or above, you would be very comfortable in your cozy room, with a view.

Most of the Hotel packages, tend to indicate which of the nearby Hospitals they have paired with, which is good if you wish to ensure the Hospitals is of a certain standard.

Link: https://thaiest.com/blog/list-of-altern ... s-thailand

pipoz4444