A Shadow of Darkness From Australia.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

[Doodoo]

You qould have to define moral leadership to ask that question

[Whistler]

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Better .oral leadership than the USA.

Let's see, starting with A. Armenia, Austria, Andorra, Azerbaijan, Argentina. Now starting with B, Belize, Bolivia, Bhutan, ..........

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

[papafarang]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Sweden

[Whistler]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Sweden

starting with A

Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Andorra
Angola
Antigua and Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Benin
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Côte d'Ivoire
Cabo Verde
Cambodia
Cameroon
Canada
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
China
Colombia
Comoros
Congo (Congo-Brazzaville)
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cuba
Cyprus
Czechia (Czech Republic)
Democratic Republic of the Congo
Denmark
Djibouti
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Eswatini (fmr. "Swaziland")
Ethiopia
Fiji
Finland
France
Gabon
Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guinea
Guinea-Bissau
Guyana
Haiti
Holy See
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Kiribati
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Madagascar
Malawi
Malaysia
Maldives
Mali
Malta
Marshall Islands
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico
Micronesia
Moldova
Monaco
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Mozambique
Myanmar (formerly Burma)
Namibia
Nauru
Nepal
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nicaragua
Niger
Nigeria
North Korea
North Macedonia
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Palau
Palestine State
Panama
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
Samoa
San Marino
Sao Tome and Principe
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia
Seychelles
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Slovakia
Slovenia
Solomon Islands
Somalia
South Africa
South Korea
South Sudan
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sudan
Suriname
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Timor-Leste
Togo
Tonga
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Tuvalu
Uganda
Ukraine
United Arab Emirates
United Kingdom
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Vanuatu
Venezuela
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

[tamada]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Sweden

starting with A

Afghanistan
...
Ethiopia
...

This just in. The 2019 Nobel Peace Prize winning Ethiopian Prime Minister Abiy Ahmed has sent the army in to suppress a separatist uprising in the northern province of Tigray. This has caused a refugee crisis in neighboring Sudan. Claims of many civilian causalities cannot be independently confirmed as there's a ban on foreign media accessing the region.

[jackspratt]

We seem to be drifting off-topic.

[Whistler]

Naw Jack, the broad topic here seems to be national standards of morals. In defence of Australia, they exposed the alleged misconduct internally and appear to be dealing with it in a sensble and ethical manner. We have expanded this to moral leadership, of which the US has none, waterboarding, shipping people overseas for not so delicate interrogation.

I think in fact, the exposing of this behaviour by the Australian government is praiseworthy and shows commendible moral leadership.

It goes without saying that China covers up all of its sins and thumbs its nose at the world on humnan rights abuses.

[AlexO]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Sweden

That will be the Country where the cops tell the local females not to go out at night because they cannot control the immigrant rape gangs. How many grenade attacks this year. ALL ARE WELCOME, bet that is not the case any more.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Your list of enlightened countries that can provide moral leadership is a joke beginning with the first countries listed and including China. Try again.

[Whistler]

Your list of enlightened countries that can provide moral leadership is a joke beginning with the first countries listed and including China. Try again.

twas a non tribute to America. A Russian joke

'When somebody make a joke, it is half joke, but half true'

[Doodoo]

Laan "Gone Fishing"

[papafarang]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Sweden

That will be the Country where the cops tell the local females not to go out at night because they cannot control the immigrant rape gangs. How many grenade attacks this year. ALL ARE WELCOME, bet that is not the case any more.

Well you can get stabbed in UK,shot in america, kidnapped in mexico. Crime has nothing to do with it , crime is world wide. We are on about government morality . or lack of ,recently we have moved into state terrorism,assassinations

[AlexO]

Alex, the US also declared that waterboarding was not torture. The CIA whisked captured combatents to Pakiston, Egypt and other places to be tortured. The US held combatents in Guantanimo without trial. Let's not look at the US as the paragon of virtue. They have morphed into arrogant thugs over the past 30 or 40 years or more. Murdering foreign leaders like Allende, financing terrorist (sorry freedom fighters), etc etc.

They are morally corrupt.

The Geneva convention means nothing to the US, we need to look at more enlightened nations for moral leadership these days.

Please list some of these more enlightened nations that have the influence to provide moral leadership in the world. And, Scotland doesn't count.

Sweden

That will be the Country where the cops tell the local females not to go out at night because they cannot control the immigrant rape gangs. How many grenade attacks this year. ALL ARE WELCOME, bet that is not the case any more.

Well you can get stabbed in UK,shot in america, kidnapped in mexico. Crime has nothing to do with it , crime is world wide. We are on about government morality . or lack of ,recently we have moved into state terrorism,assassinations

Dean
How many western nations police forces actually come out and admit that they can no longer protect their citizens from rape gangs etc. Of course there is crime in all countries but Sweden was just overwhelmed. Quick question, if the 'all welcome' mat had not been given do you think the rape and violent crime figures would be the same??

[AlexO]

And you can get your head hacked off with a knife while listening to someone praising his God in other Countries. What has Government morality (or lack there off) got to do with it?? There are certain actions needed to protect the well being of your nation that are better kept a blanket. Lessons from the wee fat boy in North Korea not required.

[GT93]

Roberts-Smith's big defamation action draws closer:

https://www.theage.com.au/national/comm ... 57y3s.html

I see Dame Quentin-Bryce has done a runner. I would too. And Brendan Nelson makes a dash to be the dumbest Australian.

There's also a photo in the link of some Aussie soldiers, including the plaintiff, partying at the Fat Ladies Arms with a Ku Klux Klan figure. Oh dear.

These guys make even Scotty from Marketing look like Einstein.

[AlexO]

There's also a photo in the link of some Aussie soldiers, including the plaintiff, partying at the Fat Ladies Arms with a Ku Klux Klan figure. Oh dear.

You clearly forgot to mention the fact that it was obviously at a private 'Fancy Dress' party that you individually have no control about how people come dressed. The guy in the KKK outfit might cause cries of outrage depending on your political leanings or lack of sense of humour but does not as you infer mean support, would you have preferred the elite special forces of your nation to attend dressed in gay rights or trans outfits.
PS
I have no axe to bear on peoples choice of lifestyle but you have to understand the mindset of most of these SF guys. Just let the trial go forward without trying to presuppose the verdict and then gloat or offer your massive apologies.

[GT93]

I have a very strong preference that New Zealand military and civilian government personnel when on premises effectively under the control of the NZ government not attend fancy dress parties in Ku Klux Klan kit either in New Zealand or overseas. I don't think the "it was a joke" line will endear them to their employers.

The evidence that the Australian SAS went rogue is overwhelming. I'm confident the Australian military will make a big effort to improve things. As for Australian war criminals, where there is sufficient evidence they should be held to account and face the full weight of the relevant Australian law. I suspect whatever the outcome, this defamation trial is going to be a mighty pain in the arse for the Australian military.

It's a shame decades ago that members of the British Brigade of Guards weren't also held to account for deplorable behaviour:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -guardsman

Military leaders need to pull their heads out of the sand and manage the problematic points of their institutions better. Then they will be able to carry out their respective civilian government's objectives more effectively.

[noosard]

Easy answer is dont send people to war
War is for killing and ---- happens