A Shadow of Darkness From Australia.

[AlexO]

I have a very strong preference that New Zealand military and civilian government personnel when on premises effectively under the control of the NZ government not attend fancy dress parties in Ku Klux Klan kit either in New Zealand or overseas. I don't think the "it was a joke" line will endear them to their employers.

The evidence that the Australian SAS went rogue is overwhelming. I'm confident the Australian military will make a big effort to improve things. As for Australian war criminals, where there is sufficient evidence they should be held to account and face the full weight of the relevant Australian law. I suspect whatever the outcome, this defamation trial is going to be a mighty pain in the arse for the Australian military.

It's a shame decades ago that members of the British Brigade of Guards weren't also held to account for deplorable behaviour:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -guardsman

Military leaders need to pull their heads out of the sand and manage the problematic points of their institutions better. Then they will be able to carry out their respective civilian government's objectives more effectively.

Jeez
The Guardian again. Please tell us you have at least an education and some joined up brain cells. Decades ago the Brigade of Guards??? What are you talking about. Usual innuendo without an ounce of fact.

[tamada]

I have a very strong preference that New Zealand military and civilian government personnel when on premises effectively under the control of the NZ government not attend fancy dress parties in Ku Klux Klan kit either in New Zealand or overseas. I don't think the "it was a joke" line will endear them to their employers.

The evidence that the Australian SAS went rogue is overwhelming. I'm confident the Australian military will make a big effort to improve things. As for Australian war criminals, where there is sufficient evidence they should be held to account and face the full weight of the relevant Australian law. I suspect whatever the outcome, this defamation trial is going to be a mighty pain in the arse for the Australian military.

It's a shame decades ago that members of the British Brigade of Guards weren't also held to account for deplorable behaviour:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -guardsman

Military leaders need to pull their heads out of the sand and manage the problematic points of their institutions better. Then they will be able to carry out their respective civilian government's objectives more effectively.

Jeez
The Guardian again. Please tell us you have at least an education and some joined up brain cells. Decades ago the Brigade of Guards??? What are you talking about. Usual innuendo without an ounce of fact.

Easy there Tonto, it's only an opinion piece.

[jackspratt]

New explosive allegations from the ABC.

The ABC brings to light shocking new accounts of the single deadliest alleged war crime committed by Australia’s special forces in Afghanistan......

....By the time the SAS raid is over, 13 people will be dead. According to Australian and Afghan sources, most of them were unarmed civilians who were shot in cold blood.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-09/ ... n/13362000

For the sake of the (very diminished) reputation of the special forces, let's hope the ABC has it wrong.

Although that doesn't happen too often - just ask Christian Porter.

[AlexO]

I have a very strong preference that New Zealand military and civilian government personnel when on premises effectively under the control of the NZ government not attend fancy dress parties in Ku Klux Klan kit either in New Zealand or overseas. I don't think the "it was a joke" line will endear them to their employers.

The evidence that the Australian SAS went rogue is overwhelming. I'm confident the Australian military will make a big effort to improve things. As for Australian war criminals, where there is sufficient evidence they should be held to account and face the full weight of the relevant Australian law. I suspect whatever the outcome, this defamation trial is going to be a mighty pain in the arse for the Australian military.

It's a shame decades ago that members of the British Brigade of Guards weren't also held to account for deplorable behaviour:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -guardsman

Military leaders need to pull their heads out of the sand and manage the problematic points of their institutions better. Then they will be able to carry out their respective civilian government's objectives more effectively.

So your preferences would be that the guys who risk life and limb and incredible hardships in carrying out your Governments orders (they are not there because they just want a fight) should only relax after bringing back their own dead and wounded by having a very quick shower just in case they miss the scheduled knitting class and the lovely tea and little sandwitches afterwards.
Give me a break FFS.

[AlexO]

New explosive allegations from the ABC.

The ABC brings to light shocking new accounts of the single deadliest alleged war crime committed by Australia’s special forces in Afghanistan......

....By the time the SAS raid is over, 13 people will be dead. According to Australian and Afghan sources, most of them were unarmed civilians who were shot in cold blood.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-09/ ... n/13362000

For the sake of the (very diminished) reputation of the special forces, let's hope the ABC has it wrong.

Although that doesn't happen too often - just ask Christian Porter.

Pratt
Every insurgent in Afghanistan is/was dressed as a civilian. Their terrorist comrades know that if they are hit and you cannot recover the body you recover the weapon thus the propaganda war has another civilian victim.
Exactly the same in Ulster with PIRA. Brave sniper in civilian clothes is shot and killed, his mates pick up the weapons and run away.
Classic terrorist tactic.
Cannot believe ABC are so biased or naive to even publish such rubbish.

[AlexO]

Pratt
Just another little point.
The Aussie special forces must be some kind of stupid to record their allegeged war crimes on body cams and then give the evidence to ABC and the Guardian so they can be castigated and brought to trial by the wee lefties who believe they should go to was armed with knitting needles. Makes absolute sense dosn't it.

[tamada]

That's was almost three consecutive posts without referencing the Guardian.

Glad to see your condition is improving slightly.

[jackspratt]

Pratt
Just another little point.
The Aussie special forces must be some kind of stupid to record their allegeged war crimes on body cams ........

Suggest you watch the 1st video included with this report, and get back on the subject of them being "some kind of stupid".

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-16/ ... s/12028512

Or if you want the whole picture, educate yourself by watching the 2nd video - plenty of SAS recorded footage on that as well.

[AlexO]

Pratt
What do you see that is incriminating in any of the footage apart from a wee soul being led by a reporter into saying things. Words in a video means nothing, you never watched a Western movie that has been dubbed in Thailand, and you talk about educated????

[AlexO]

That's was almost three consecutive posts without referencing the Guardian.

Glad to see your condition is improving slightly.

What is almost Tam 2.5 , 2.2 times? It was actually twice. What's happened, you still in quarantine, forget the photos of the ironing days or your Pino houseboy not up to your usual standards (any port in a storm).
Ps
Have a good trip.

[tamada]

That's was almost three consecutive posts without referencing the Guardian.

Glad to see your condition is improving slightly.

What is almost Tam 2.5 , 2.2 times? It was actually twice. What's happened, you still in quarantine, forget the photos of the ironing days or your Pino houseboy not up to your usual standards (any port in a storm).
Ps
Have a good trip.

[jackspratt]

Pratt
What do you see that is incriminating in any of the footage apart from a wee soul being led by a reporter into saying things. Words in a video means nothing, you never watched a Western movie that has been dubbed in Thailand, and you talk about educated????

So what did you make of the 1st video Alex - you did watch it yeah?

The one taken by an SAS body cam, without any reporter being present.

Where SAS1 says to SAS2 a couple of times "should I drop this c*unt" - the c*unt being a young Afghan laying on the ground, without any resistance, or a weapon or radio in sight.

And then, from about 2 metres range, shoots him 3 times.

Please get back after giving it due consideration - and without any deflection about Northern Ireland.

[jackspratt]

Glad to see your condition is improving slightly.

Only on one level.

[GT93]

At this stage it looks to me as if this is going to be a soldier against soldier trial.

[marjamlew]

At this stage it looks to me as if this is going to be a soldier against soldier trial.

Soldier against soldiers GT. Looks like about 20 ex SAS servicemen are prepared to stand up in court and attest to the grave sins of Bang Bang Benny. The son of a supreme court judge. Will be interesting to see just how far privilege can get ya in Australia.

[Bandung_Dero]

This is the 1st time I have opened this thread and wonder how many of you "key board warriors" have served in the military or even seen active service?

All sorts of things happen behind the scenes that you lot will never be privy to.

My brother in law spent 2 years in the Holsworthy military prison during the Vietnam War for an incident he was eventually cleared of = scape goat, went back and completed a 2nd tour as forward scout leader.

BTW:- Me, 8 years RAAF 1966 - 1974.

[marjamlew]

21 current and former SAS soldiers are going to give evidence about what they saw in Afghanistan. Not sure how many of them are or were 'keyboard warriors.'
RS is suing the papers for defamation. The papers are claiming truth as a defence. The 21 current and former SAS soldiers are going to testify that the papers are telling the truth.
Their testimony will be interesting.

[Kenr6583]

Kind of sounds like the Eddie Gallagher saga.

[pipoz4444]

So what Court are we talking about?

In a Military Court by his Peers or By/in the name of the Attorney-General or the Director of Public Prosecutions (in which State or internal Territory) by a Judge and Jury, (probably Canberra), as enacted by the Amended Act of 1988 No 3 of 1989 /War Crimes Act No 48 of 1945

No member of the Australian armed forces has been prosecuted for war crimes for some 120 years, so it would appear that there is very little Australian precedent, on hand, for any Court, Judge or Jury. To use a punt, "What a Legal Minefield".

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2004A03751

pipoz4444

[jackspratt]

Document Lodged: Statement of Claim - Form 17 - Rule 8.06(1)(a)
File Number: NSD1485/2018
File Title: BEN ROBERTS-SMITH v FAIRFAX MEDIA PUBLICATIONS PTY LTD
(ACN 003 357 720) & ORS
Registry: NEW SOUTH WALES REGISTRY - FEDERAL COURT OF
AUSTRALIA