Miscellaneous COVID-19/Corona Virus Discussion, Questions, etc.

[Khun Paul]

Thai Siri market on the Sakon Nahkon road closed for three days due top Covid infection.
Although by the time the owner posts this may well be open again.

[Giggle]

Test fewer people, get fewer cases.

Covid is whatever the local government (not medical pros) want it to be.

[Udon Map]

Test fewer people, get fewer cases.

The specious Trump approach.

[sometimewoodworker]

Test fewer people, get fewer cases.

The specious Trump approach.

Yes but, I you take the view that eventually everyone will be exposed, those that can catch it will catch it, if you have been vaccinated or not, that a largish percentage will either be symptom free or have mild symptoms, and that you have vaccinated everyone in the higher risk category and everyone else who will accept it.

Once you have made that decision what is the point of spending large amounts of money testing those non-sick individuals?

Of course you continue testing people sick enough to need to be hospitalised so you can give appropriate treatment

Germany will stop providing free testing in October, I don’t know if the U.K. has made a decision on when they will stop mass testing.

There.is conclusive proof that vaccination reduces death and hospitalisation. Look at the USA of the patients in hospital the numbers who haven’t been vaccinated is in the high 90% range.

[Giggle]

Only 11 percent of Thailand has been vaccinated. Shall we shun 89 percent of the population and make them wear gold stars and bar them from restaurants and airplanes? Maybe we can issue the high society "clean" types certificates, or maybe books of a specific color and shape. This is turning into a laughable real-life version of Dr. Seuss' Star bellied Sneetches story.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdLPe7XjdKc[/youtube]

eventually everyone will be exposed, those that can catch it will catch it, if you have been vaccinated

Then ... on to the next divisive, hateful ploy to get people to despise each other.

Rutgers student says he’s being stopped from taking virtual classes because he’s not vaccinated

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2021/09/ ... nated.html

Who cares that it's absurd and ridiculous -- as long as it's divisive...

[tamada]

To avoid entering into debate on the "Important Information" thread, when I suggested that the possible ongoing vaccine shortages in Thailand may be interesting when booster shots are needed, it was questioned why I would find this interesting. The whole booster question was dismissed as being unproven or not being needed by the "vast majority".

It's may be unproven at this juncture but there are enough virologists, scientists and health professionals in various nations actively studying it and talking publicly about it.

The UK government's health advisers have raised the likelihood of booster shots for those who may need them in the colder, traditional flu season. This is not the "vast majority".

The Thai health advisers have raised the likelihood of booster shots using Moderna or AZ for those who have already been double-jabbed with the Chinese vaccines. They are already doing this with essential health workers, possibly using Pfizer vaccine as well. These recipients aren't the "vast majority" either.

I find it interesting in a country that hasn't bought any meaningful amount of vaccines but has depended largely on the benevolence of Chinese and American donations and great gobs of luck. Malaysia has just bought and paid for another 45 million Pfizer shots ahead of an expected global shortage. The are streets ahead of Thailand with vaccinations while Vietnam, the one-time basket case, is rapidly catching up with Thailand.

Being over 60, I am already not of the 'vast majority' who may be able to slough off the worst that Covid can do. No pre-existing conditions but by this time next month, I will be fully vaccinated. How about next Easter?

Being a frequent international traveler again (at last), I am again no longer among the "vast majority" who aren't.

Meanwhile, in Israel where 3rd shot BOOSTERS are already part of their national game plan to avoid another national lock down.

"Preliminary data published by the Israeli government in July showed the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was just 16% effective against symptomatic infection for people who had received two doses in January. For people who had been fully vaccinated by April, the vaccine was 79% effective against symptomatic infection, suggesting that immunity gained through immunization depletes over time."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/30/israel- ... -rise.html

Maybe of no importance to some but unless I am in some other country, I think the availability or otherwise of boosters of any flavor in Thailand in Q1/2 of 2022 as interesting.

[sometimewoodworker]

I think that my post may have been taken to mean things that it did not.

The requirement for boosters for all is being pushed by politicians. This is before complete studies have been completed by the medical profession.

Yes certainly for some vaccination regimens and for some vaccines protection is reducing in some people faster than is liked or safe. (No just age is not an indication of the likelihood of being in those groups, though extreme age maybe). The groups of concern include people taking immunosuppressive drugs, transplant recipients need these, people who don’t seem to be making the normal quantity of protective cells, reasons are not yet clear why these people are reacting this way.

The studies are of a variety of situations.

So far preliminary data is showing that a 3rd shot (of any of the western vaccines) provides less protection against both catching Covid and being hospitalised than catching Covid long enough after vaccination has become effective, at least +14 better +28 days. There is insufficient data for those who are more than 9 months out who catch Covid then.

Yes a 3rd shot improves resistance to most variants, there hasn’t been enough time to suggest if this protection will be longer lasting.

Sinovac while safe and probably still providing protection against the original variant seems to provide less protection against the delta variant, empirical evidence suggests that for those who have only had Sinovac and are frontline workers likely to be exposed because of their job (health, police, public contact government etc) a 3rd shot of a different vaccine is needed.

Bottom line

A) a 3rd shot extends protection.
B) Catching Covid when protected extends protection.
Data so far is saying for the vast majority of any age B provides better protection than A

Bottom bottom line

If vaccination is freely available to everyone who wants it boosters should be a personal choice, until then getting a booster is probably taking away from someone else.

[parrot]

While at Somsak's Pharmacy (on Phosri Rd) today, he mentioned that VIRX (nasal spray, developed in Israel) will be available in very limited supply.......I'm not interested, but those who are can read up on it on the internet and contact Somsak if you're interested.

[parrot]

A clip from one of the news links I read each day:
I would like to report the results of passenger screening at Udon Thani Airport on September 15, 2021 as follows:
Flight 1
11:05 a.m. Thai Vietjet Airlines
VZ208 Number of passengers 102
1. 100 people passed the screening, 32 of those traveling to other provinces​
2. Failed to pass the screening 2
Flight 2
12:30 p.m. Nok Air
DD306 Number of passengers 63
1. Passed the screening 58 (17 people travel to other provinces)
2. Failed to pass the screening 5 people
Flight 3
13.10 hrs. Thai Air Asia
FD3358 Number of passengers 85
1. Passed the screening 84 people (27 traveling to other provinces)
2. Failed to pass the screening 1 person

[FrazeeDK]

Virx nasal spray is merely a sodium chloride solution. It is not an anti-viral. https://www.antifakenewscenter.com/%E0% ... %E0%B8%87/

[tamada]

A clip from one of the news links I read each day:
I would like to report the results of passenger screening at Udon Thani Airport on September 15, 2021 as follows:
Flight 1
11:05 a.m. Thai Vietjet Airlines
VZ208 Number of passengers 102
1. 100 people passed the screening, 32 of those traveling to other provinces​
2. Failed to pass the screening 2
Flight 2
12:30 p.m. Nok Air
DD306 Number of passengers 63
1. Passed the screening 58 (17 people travel to other provinces)
2. Failed to pass the screening 5 people
Flight 3
13.10 hrs. Thai Air Asia
FD3358 Number of passengers 85
1. Passed the screening 84 people (27 traveling to other provinces)
2. Failed to pass the screening 1 person

This UTH arriving passenger 'screening' is what exactly? Temperature checks with those walk-through thermal imaging thingmies?

What's the follow up I wonder? A re-test after sitting in an air conditioned room for 20 minutes? A lateral flow (RTK) test? Or is it straight off to do 14-days quarantine and observation in a cardboard bed warehouse?

[tamada]

I think that my post may have been taken to mean things that it did not.

The requirement for boosters for all is being pushed by politicians. This is before complete studies have been completed by the medical profession.

Yes certainly for some vaccination regimens and for some vaccines protection is reducing in some people faster than is liked or safe. (No just age is not an indication of the likelihood of being in those groups, though extreme age maybe). The groups of concern include people taking immunosuppressive drugs, transplant recipients need these, people who don’t seem to be making the normal quantity of protective cells, reasons are not yet clear why these people are reacting this way.

The studies are of a variety of situations.

So far preliminary data is showing that a 3rd shot (of any of the western vaccines) provides less protection against both catching Covid and being hospitalised than catching Covid long enough after vaccination has become effective, at least +14 better +28 days. There is insufficient data for those who are more than 9 months out who catch Covid then.

Yes a 3rd shot improves resistance to most variants, there hasn’t been enough time to suggest if this protection will be longer lasting.

Sinovac while safe and probably still providing protection against the original variant seems to provide less protection against the delta variant, empirical evidence suggests that for those who have only had Sinovac and are frontline workers likely to be exposed because of their job (health, police, public contact government etc) a 3rd shot of a different vaccine is needed.

Bottom line

A) a 3rd shot extends protection.
B) Catching Covid when protected extends protection.
Data so far is saying for the vast majority of any age B provides better protection than A

Bottom bottom line

If vaccination is freely available to everyone who wants it boosters should be a personal choice, until then getting a booster is probably taking away from someone else.

That's clarified things, thanks. However, if you look beyond the political posturing, there is already a degree of scientific research behind their claims so they're not quite pulling the data out of their arses.

The WHO's DG is pleading (again) for the 'rich countries' to hold off on boosters until the poorer ones catch up. I haven't seen much in the news on how the COVAX initiative is making inroads on the latter. If Dr Tedros had been a bit quicker pulling the pandemic trigger last Spring, maybe these rich countries would be paying more attention to his calls?

Here's a couple of decent reads on when to boost or otherwise. Please adjust your 'political filters' accordingly.

From the UK's perspective.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-wha ... obal-en-GB

And from the US's.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... obal-en-GB

[sometimewoodworker]

That's clarified things, thanks. However, if you look beyond the political posturing, there is already a degree of scientific research behind their claims so they're not quite pulling the data out of their arses.

The WHO's DG is pleading (again) for the 'rich countries' to hold off on boosters until the poorer ones catch up. I haven't seen much in the news on how the COVAX initiative is making inroads on the latter. If Dr Tedros had been a bit quicker pulling the pandemic trigger last Spring, maybe these rich countries would be paying more attention to his calls?

Here's a couple of decent reads on when to boost or otherwise. Please adjust your 'political filters' accordingly.

From the UK's perspective.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-wha ... obal-en-GB

And from the US's.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... obal-en-GB

I agree that there is research being carried out as I mentioned.

However the conclusions of that research are far from clear as yet. It’s a far more complex set of trials than the vaccines needed and may/will take a lot longer.

Both of the articles support the view point that the Booster regimen is being pushed far beyond the medical evidence by the political elite. I have seen no papers, reviewed or pre-print that directly support the government positions.

If it were the case that everyone who wanted a vaccination were able to get one then the wisdom of getting a booster would not be an issue. However there are billions who can’t get vaccinated who want to. Its unquestionably true that mass booster shots that the U.K. government have decided to give, will slow down the availability for even a first shot for millions, it will probably kill thousands or hundreds of thousands.

So apart from those at high risk there is no moral defence for the political choice of BoJo, it’s a choice for his political future.

[Doodoo]

"The best way to avoid new Covid variants is to delay booster shots"

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/best ... 58894.html

[noosard]

That is not true
what is that poor nations need to be vaccinated

[tamada]

"The hope is that booster shots might offer added protection against the virus. But some scientists say that right now, the best protection against delta and other variants isn’t prioritizing booster shots, but making sure that everyone in the world has the opportunity to get their first doses."

From Doodoo's link.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-way ... 58894.html

[Khun Paul]

To that I agree, but what about all those cynics, idiots or downright stupid people who refuse the vaccine and instyead want some of the more dangerous alternatives, what about them they will continually make the world an unsafe place realing to this Virus and all its mutations , through their ill informed denials and negative actions, often railing against their respective governments, having NO THOUGHT for others generally.

[sometimewoodworker]

That is not true
what is that poor nations need to be vaccinated

The supply of vaccines are limited, not by the amounts wanted, but by the amount that can be produced.
Every shot of vaccine produced has people waiting for it.
If the person who gets it has already had 2 shots then people who have not had any shots do not get it.
Unvaccinated people have a much higher chance of hospitalisation.
Unvaccinated people have a much higher chance of Death

Therefore giving 3rd Booster shots will kill hundreds or thousands or hundreds of thousands by using up the limited supply of vaccines on people who have protection, stopping people who have no protection from being vaccinated.

I thought that the above was so self evident that it was unnecessary to spell out.

Until the supply can easily meet the demand it’s just politics that gives 3rd shots in the rich countries.

[noosard]

The some wealthier countries have too many vaccines but the booster shots they use wont kill anyone
Failing to deliver to the poor nations does leave them with a growing number of cases,
which can cause the mutation of the virus
at present delta mutation which is about a year old has not been replaced by anything worse

[sometimewoodworker]

The some wealthier countries have too many vaccines but the booster shots they use wont kill anyone

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Or is it that you have no concept or understanding of limited resources.

The amount of vaccine that can be produced is limited.

Just because you have the money or foresight to buy more than you need doesn’t change that fact.

Just because you possess it does not change the fact that your excess has reduced the vaccine available.

So QED using that vaccine rather than selling it or donating it to unvaccinated kills people.

As I have said once vaccine production can meet all orders for it the case and morality of giving boosters changes