Are we truly Free

[Whistler]

Whistler, please feel free to provide the details to the 2 incidents you have alleged. Should you choose to provide the alleged details you will be protected by your anonymity on the forum in regard to making unfounded statements.

Making post at 3:00 AM? Hmmmm.

Alleged details? Unfounded statements? Are you living in some fantasy world where you think you are cross examining?

I disclosed a very nasty experience to illustrate that there should not be unfettered free speech, I made that quite clear that defamous statements should not be made under the guise of free speech.

The website at the centre of the issue was called rebelrabbitohs.com run by my defamous contact. The site has now been taken down and the Facebook page has been dormant for a number of years. The named owner of both sites is an alias Everton Dessant. The individual was a central character in a number of legal cases. My role was to track down the real person behind the site ownership. I identified the persons real name, telephone number, email and address by going through various Web registration entries and matching this with other known information.

However, let me make another clear statement. I have no intention of going through the incidents, chapter and verse.

[Khun Paul]

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/ques ... ts-in-2018

Over 3,000 arrested for posting in the UK as compared to Russia at only 400

A ridiculously misleading post.

First of all it is 5 years old, before Russia invaded Ukraine. It is a crime to use free speech in Russia, on one single day in March, 5000 were arrested for expressing their view on the war. Comparing the right to free speech in the UK to that of Russia is like complaining that elephants are grossly overweight compared to mice, and expecting to be taken seriously.

I would suggest that not one single arrest for social media posts in the UK was to suppress free speech. Using Social media to harass and threaten is illegal as it should be, and that would be the reason for arrests.

AH Whistler offering his opinion whle calling the previous post ridiculous and then offering a reason, total rubbish.
Yes all fgures are misleading as someone said you can make stats say anything you want in my old force they managed to arreswt a whole Person for what he posted on the internet in the last 12 months and guess what most Police offcers do not care nor will they actually go out of their way to act.. Normally left to specialised UNITs in other Government agencies to deal with this proliferation of bad information, should look here as well. LOTS of it on here

I think that you may have missed the point of Whistler's post, KP. I thought that he was talking about the reason that people were arrested for posts. He said that no one was arrested in the UK for exercising their right to free speech. The link referred to violating the Malicious Communications Act of 1988. Malicious communications are very different from exercising one's right to free speech.

A malicious complaint happens because someone states it is malicious not that the maker thought it was . In the first place they were exercising FREE SPEECH . The difference is if they made the comment with intent . Same communication but different outcome . No wonder there is a problem in the world.

No, there are objective measures of malice. The fact that the speaker proclaims his lack of malicious intent does not cure a malicious statement.

It seems we must all bow down to great American INTELLECT , erroneous though it may be . THat is why AMEICA IS IN THE CULTURAl mess it is in. skewed thinking abilities.

[Udon Map]

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/ques ... ts-in-2018

Over 3,000 arrested for posting in the UK as compared to Russia at only 400

A ridiculously misleading post.

First of all it is 5 years old, before Russia invaded Ukraine. It is a crime to use free speech in Russia, on one single day in March, 5000 were arrested for expressing their view on the war. Comparing the right to free speech in the UK to that of Russia is like complaining that elephants are grossly overweight compared to mice, and expecting to be taken seriously.

I would suggest that not one single arrest for social media posts in the UK was to suppress free speech. Using Social media to harass and threaten is illegal as it should be, and that would be the reason for arrests.

AH Whistler offering his opinion whle calling the previous post ridiculous and then offering a reason, total rubbish.
Yes all fgures are misleading as someone said you can make stats say anything you want in my old force they managed to arreswt a whole Person for what he posted on the internet in the last 12 months and guess what most Police offcers do not care nor will they actually go out of their way to act.. Normally left to specialised UNITs in other Government agencies to deal with this proliferation of bad information, should look here as well. LOTS of it on here

I think that you may have missed the point of Whistler's post, KP. I thought that he was talking about the reason that people were arrested for posts. He said that no one was arrested in the UK for exercising their right to free speech. The link referred to violating the Malicious Communications Act of 1988. Malicious communications are very different from exercising one's right to free speech.

A malicious complaint happens because someone states it is malicious not that the maker thought it was . In the first place they were exercising FREE SPEECH . The difference is if they made the comment with intent . Same communication but different outcome . No wonder there is a problem in the world.

No, there are objective measures of malice. The fact that the speaker proclaims his lack of malicious intent does not cure a malicious statement.

It seems we must all bow down to great American INTELLECT , erroneous though it may be . THat is why AMEICA IS IN THE CULTURAl mess it is in. skewed thinking abilities.

I know from personal experience that admitting that you are wrong is not one of your strong suits, however, no one is asking you to bow down to anyone or anything. If you disagree with something that anyone, including me, has posted, feel free to explain. That's what a discussion is, -- people exchanging ideas and viewpoints.

[jackspratt]

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/ques ... ts-in-2018

Over 3,000 arrested for posting in the UK as compared to Russia at only 400

A ridiculously misleading post.

First of all it is 5 years old, before Russia invaded Ukraine. It is a crime to use free speech in Russia, on one single day in March, 5000 were arrested for expressing their view on the war. Comparing the right to free speech in the UK to that of Russia is like complaining that elephants are grossly overweight compared to mice, and expecting to be taken seriously.

I would suggest that not one single arrest for social media posts in the UK was to suppress free speech. Using Social media to harass and threaten is illegal as it should be, and that would be the reason for arrests.

AH Whistler offering his opinion whle calling the previous post ridiculous and then offering a reason, total rubbish.
Yes all fgures are misleading as someone said you can make stats say anything you want in my old force they managed to arreswt a whole Person for what he posted on the internet in the last 12 months and guess what most Police offcers do not care nor will they actually go out of their way to act.. Normally left to specialised UNITs in other Government agencies to deal with this proliferation of bad information, should look here as well. LOTS of it on here

I think that you may have missed the point of Whistler's post, KP. I thought that he was talking about the reason that people were arrested for posts. He said that no one was arrested in the UK for exercising their right to free speech. The link referred to violating the Malicious Communications Act of 1988. Malicious communications are very different from exercising one's right to free speech.

A malicious complaint happens because someone states it is malicious not that the maker thought it was . In the first place they were exercising FREE SPEECH . The difference is if they made the comment with intent . Same communication but different outcome . No wonder there is a problem in the world.

No, there are objective measures of malice. The fact that the speaker proclaims his lack of malicious intent does not cure a malicious statement.

It seems we must all bow down to great American INTELLECT , erroneous though it may be . THat is why AMEICA IS IN THE CULTURAl mess it is in. skewed thinking abilities.

Please tell us - nay, enlighten us - as to his error(s).

[Whistler]

I am fascinated an more thzn a bit hortified by the statement

'Police offcers do not care nor will they actually go out of their way to act.'

Really? The police are not interested in dealing with illegal activities. Not my experience at all, the police were very active, the public prosecutor refused to act saying in my case I had a civil option of suing for defamation, but I could not fault the police.

Maybe you were part of a police force that did not care, you seem supportive of that view.

[Udon Map]

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/ques ... ts-in-2018

Over 3,000 arrested for posting in the UK as compared to Russia at only 400

A ridiculously misleading post.

First of all it is 5 years old, before Russia invaded Ukraine. It is a crime to use free speech in Russia, on one single day in March, 5000 were arrested for expressing their view on the war. Comparing the right to free speech in the UK to that of Russia is like complaining that elephants are grossly overweight compared to mice, and expecting to be taken seriously.

I would suggest that not one single arrest for social media posts in the UK was to suppress free speech. Using Social media to harass and threaten is illegal as it should be, and that would be the reason for arrests.

AH Whistler offering his opinion whle calling the previous post ridiculous and then offering a reason, total rubbish.

Yes all fgures are misleading as someone said you can make stats say anything you want in my old force they managed to arreswt a whole Person for what he posted on the internet in the last 12 months and guess what most Police offcers do not care nor will they actually go out of their way to act.. Normally left to specialised UNITs in other Government agencies to deal with this proliferation of bad information, should look here as well. LOTS of it on here

I think that you may have missed the point of Whistler's post, KP. I thought that he was talking about the reason that people were arrested for posts. He said that no one was arrested in the UK for exercising their right to free speech. The link referred to violating the Malicious Communications Act of 1988. Malicious communications are very different from exercising one's right to free speech.

A malicious complaint happens because someone states it is malicious not that the maker thought it was . In the first place they were exercising FREE SPEECH . The difference is if they made the comment with intent . Same communication but different outcome . No wonder there is a problem in the world.

No, there are objective measures of malice. The fact that the speaker proclaims his lack of malicious intent does not cure a malicious statement.

It seems we must all bow down to great American INTELLECT , erroneous though it may be . THat is why AMEICA IS IN THE CULTURAl mess it is in. skewed thinking abilities.

I know from personal experience that admitting that you are wrong is not one of your strong suits, however, no one is asking you to bow down to anyone or anything. If you disagree with something that anyone, including me, has posted, feel free to explain. That's what a discussion is, -- people exchanging ideas and viewpoints.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ&t=91s

[jackspratt]

Whistler, please feel free to provide the details to the 2 incidents you have alleged. Should you choose to provide the alleged details you will be protected by your anonymity on the forum in regard to making unfounded statements.

Just to clarify, tt - as your latest post on this thread seems to have "dropped off the map".

Are you seeking details about:

I suggest you know zip, simply fishing for info so you can make a personal attack. Given there are now two well known incidents of you being beaten up by making personal insults to people to their face, do you now feel safe doing so on an internet forum?

rather than whistle's earlier "expert witness" statement?

[Whistler]

Jack,

Let's drop it with TT. We both drank at the same bar a few years ago and he knows I was involved in some defamation actions, he has even seen some newspaper reports covering it mentioning me by name. We fell out over his extreme right wing views including him and his mates trying to welch on a bet when Trump.lost.

Now he goes out of his way to display his rather extreme political and social views. Sky news and News Limited are his GOTO sources for anti progressive views. His posts on Richard Marles prior to Australia's last federal election is an example of his hysterics.

I don't want to go into every detail, but he has taken a physical beating from two other farangs where he overstepped the mark

Let's just let him hoist himself on his own petard.

[joudon]

So people who question the so called " progressive" views are sidelined or blocked.
The new "woke" I suppose.

[Whistler]

So people who question the so called " progressive" views are sidelined or blocked.
The new "woke" I suppose.

I have not seen any evidence of that joudon and hope we never do. The message that was removed was pure personal abuse. No mention of the content or views of the poster, simply an abusive rant.

[Udon Map]

So people who question the so called " progressive" views are sidelined or blocked.
The new "woke" I suppose.

Hardly. Posts which are abusive or which insult other posters will be removed at our discretion without warning. Open and respectful discussion of all political views is not only permitted, it's encouraged.

The conversation about Whistler's previous experience, or lack of it, as an expert witness, is not a topic for discussion, especially in this thread. Please, no more posts about that.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

So people who question the so called " progressive" views are sidelined or blocked.
The new "woke" I suppose.

Yes, that is how some so-called progressives currently want debates to be resolved in the western world. It used to be that Mao would send 'non-progressives' to re-education camps, and Pol Pot would simply wipe them out. Happily, UM permits debates in which we can all speak.

[joudon]

L Y M Well put. In UK for many years now we have had a MSM that only allows one point of view. Very scary for me. I quote two of Albert Einsteins many sayings
" The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."
" Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of the truth."
These two sayings came to my mind during the recent Covid crisis.

[Udon Map]

I quote two of Albert Einsteins many sayings
" The important thing is to not stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."
" Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of the truth."
These two sayings came to my mind during the recent Covid crisis.

I'll add one to this, which I heard from a mentor many years ago: We evolve only by continuously questioning our beliefs and ideas.

[joudon]

Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes"
I mention this as it seems in UK, our history is being amended or denied by the so called "woke"' or "progressive" lobby. I agree that there was much in UK's past that was not good, but also much that was good'
History must remain uncensored or re written. imo.

[Whistler]

Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes"
I mention this as it seems in UK, our history is being amended or denied by the so called "woke"' or "progressive" lobby. I agree that there was much in UK's past that was not good, but also much that was good'
History must remain uncensored or re written. imo.

I find it difficult to understand how Britain's problems can be anything other than that of a series of conservative governments who have been in power since 2010. Quite frankly, the previous Blair (war criminal) government was pretty right wing too despite calling itself 'New Labor'.

In what ways can you amend or deny history?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Winston Churchill is quoted as saying "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat its mistakes"
I mention this as it seems in UK, our history is being amended or denied by the so called "woke"' or "progressive" lobby. I agree that there was much in UK's past that was not good, but also much that was good'
History must remain uncensored or re written. imo.

I find it difficult to understand how Britain's problems can be anything other than that of a series of conservative governments who have been in power since 2010. Quite frankly, the previous Blair (war criminal) government was pretty right wing too despite calling itself 'New Labor'.

In what ways can you amend or deny history?

Going back in time, lest we forget, it was those two Liberal Imperialists in Asquith's government, Winston Churchill and David Lloyd-George, that introduced old age pensions and unemployment insurance thereby demonstrating that conservatives and Imperialists can be progressive on social issues.

[Whistler]

Well quoted LYM.

It was also an arch conservative, John Howard who introduced gun control into Australia.

On the flip side, it was a Labor government in Australia that floated the dollar, de-regulated much of the banking system, brought in an accord to curb union power.

Too many want to pigeonhole people, one can be socially progressive but fiscally conservative (how I define myself) but labelled 'woke'. These labels are frequently nonsensical to classify political views that are multi-dimensional.

[FrazeeDK]

my observation is the fully "woke" are hardly multi-dimensional when it comes to their political/social/cultural views. They are lock step into every single progressive idea and program that exists. Their belief in those ideas, without question, is akin to a ardently religious person. Facts don't matter, feelings justify their beliefs..

I also am in many cases socially liberal and on the flip fiscally conservative.. I find the US budget issues and national debt problems beyond belief. I was brought up a parsimonious Yankee with a work/life ethic that says "pay your way", "borrow seldom" and "pay off your debts ASAP..

[Kenr6583]

Can anyone on here explain to me what their definition of "woke" is and why being "woke" is such a bad thing?