Changes in Embassy services

[ChicagoExpat]

Hi all -- new here and thought I'd drop some info I've picked up (sorry if some of you already know this).

A guy in the Embassy I met in Bangkok says they're doing a big push to get the Thais to change the way they deal with foreigners -- trying to get them to use their heads (i.e. fewer useless affidavits -- like the marriage one where I'M the one who promises I'm single! ) and modernize. This is partially because he says it's absurd the way they treat us and partially self-preserving -- they simply cannot keep up with all the requests for stupid notaries the Thais send their way and still do the regular stuff (deaths, arrests, etc).

That is what is behind no more passport letters, and stuff like that. He also said every other foreign embassy is either going this way or already has.

And that the Thais are doing all in their power to keep things they way they are... firmly in the 1950s...

So this is going to suck for a while but in the end will be a big win, it seems, if they succeed...

[jackspratt]

I thought it was a good idea to bump this post, as it may slip under the radar due to being from a new member.

While it has particular relevance to the American members, if what the OP says about other embassies joining the push against what appears to be self-serving red tape and bureaucracy, better times may be ahead.

I can't wait for the Embassy pension letters to once again become acceptable.

[stattointhailand]

The other embassies and organisations need to get their own house in order first.
Pain in the ar*e to get a doctor/policeman (who has no idea who you are) to certify you are still alive every year when you have a perfectly good stamp from the Immigration office that for some crazy reason is unacceptable (even though its the Immigration guy who sees all your details before stamping your passport)

Why should the Thais change a system that works perfectly well to a different one just so the UK/US/Aus etc embassies can reduce their costs by cutting down the amount of staff required.
Of course you need to prove you are single and are not entering into a Bigamous marriage before being allowed to marry a Thai. How else are you going to prove your ex wife is either dead or you have a legal divorce if not by a legally witnessed affidavit?

[FrazeeDK]

the US Embassy is "overwhelmed" with notary requests? At $50 a pop for about 5-10 minutes work?? Note that they brought services to a screeching halt during COVID and only partially brought things back to normal despite never reducing their work force.. No more ACS visits to the provinces, no walk-ins, all services by appointment...

oh, in my opinion the income affadavits were stopped due to the inability of the ACS section to verify what somebody affirmed on the notarized letters... It did seems a joint effort among many embassied to drop that service about the same time.

[ChicagoExpat]

jackspratt -- thanks.

stattionthailand -- The system doesn't serve the Thais well either -- to use your marriage affidavit example, a "legally witnessed affidavit" doesn't do what you said it does. It's literally whatever the guy says it is. Why not make this part of the marriage license application, and done in front of a Thai official? That's the way it's done nearly everywhere else and makes so much sense. It would save you $50 and a trip to Bangkok. I'm mystified you'd grouse about it.

FrazeeDK -- yes, I asked about this. They don't want the money, that's not an issue. It's the 5000 (!) of these they had to do per year and that was under COVID -- with numbers of Americans here growing it'll go through the roof. And they did reduce staff, by a lot.

Bottom line is... think about it. Most of these things the Thais require us to get from the Embassy are totally stupid. Why can't I get them done from a Thai notary in my town? Of with a Thai official at the office?

[Hoopoe]

Hmm
Thais stuck in the 50s , love it ,
Try UK's DWP who insist everything is done via snail post
Only when it goes wrong , ' people not receiving C/L for pension ' then ( DWP) they still don't inform you,that they've not received it ,stop payment , phone calls required , they will then E mail you , hmm maybe should have done that first ,
They are not the only uk government department applying this archaic bollocks ,many got caught up in this ,in the last three months , i'm then informed by the banks there's been an Embardo on uk mail to Thailand , hmm embargo set by whom , ?? yep UK set it , it's now i'm told been lifted ,

[stattointhailand]

I had to hire a solicitor in UK to locate and get copies of my decree absolute from GRO and court, mail them to me. then I had to get them legally translated before I could marry , so NO it is not just "whatever the guy says"

[semperfiguy]

Last August I renewed my wife's B2 10-year multiple entry visa to the USA, and we did it online and by post. A few days ago I attempted to find the same instructions online at the US Embassy Bangkok site, and it appears that service is no longer available, and the renewal now requires a face-to-face interview. I did a thorough Google search as well, and no information on renewal by mail is available on any site. Perhaps others will have better luck in finding instructions.

[Udon Map]

How else are you going to prove your ex wife is either dead or you have a legal divorce if not by a legally witnessed affidavit?

Notarization provides no type or form of proof that the statements in the affidavit (or any document) are, in fact, true/accurate. Notarization is merely a mechanism of confirming the identity of the person signing the document. Nothing more.

[stattointhailand]

The affirmation of freedom to marry includes

(c) I am single and have not previously been married (or)I am widowed (or) I am divorced (please attach appropriate certificates - originals only (*)

Once the embassy is happy that the docs/certs you have provided are genuine, you then need to get it translated for the Thai officials

If you do not get a member of the embassy staff to check the docs/certs are genuine how is the Thai Registrar supposed to know?

[rick]

A quick query if your Thai wife dies, and you want to remarry a Thai, do you still need an 'aflrmation to marry' from your Uk embassy? If so, that would be insane!

No plans to get rid of the current wife, just curious.

[stattointhailand]

The affirmation is required by Thai law before you can get married, so I presume you would need a new affirmation along with your previous Thai wives death certificate.

[ChicagoExpat]

Last August I renewed my wife's B2 10-year multiple entry visa to the USA, and we did it online and by post. A few days ago I attempted to find the same instructions online at the US Embassy Bangkok site, and it appears that service is no longer available, and the renewal now requires a face-to-face interview. I did a thorough Google search as well, and no information on renewal by mail is available on any site. Perhaps others will have better luck in finding instructions.

Hi -- actually check here -- they still offer renewal by mail: https://www.ustraveldocs.com/th/ -- go to "visa renewal by mail"

[FrazeeDK]

5000 notarizations a year? Figure 220 working days and that comes out to about 21 a day. In my expericence there, 10 minutes per notary would be about normal... Since both Direct Hire American Consular Officers as well as Eligible Family Member employess can become notaries,, it seems like having 2-3 notaries on hand wouldn't be difficult.. Besides, the "mission" of American Citizen Services is to provide embassy services to American citizens, not to find excuses not to provide services.

[tutone]

Last August I renewed my wife's B2 10-year multiple entry visa to the USA, and we did it online and by post. A few days ago I attempted to find the same instructions online at the US Embassy Bangkok site, and it appears that service is no longer available, and the renewal now requires a face-to-face interview. I did a thorough Google search as well, and no information on renewal by mail is available on any site. Perhaps others will have better luck in finding instructions.

https://www.ustraveldocs.com/th/th-niv-visarenew.asp

[glalt]

Years ago service at the US Embassy was great. Now it appears that they do everything to keep from doing their jobs. Working at the Embassy is a cushy job and they don't want to be bothered to do their jobs. And yes, I have examples I but will not bother to explain them.

[ChicagoExpat]

I think the explanation I was given seems the most likely, vice "looking for excuses not to provide services in their cushy jobs."

It squares with everything we know about the Thai government, the rapidly rising numbers of Americans here, and, quite frankly, how obnoxious and stupid many of our fellow expat retirees here are. As well as the fact that it seems every other embassy is forced to do the same for the same reasons.

Unless of course you believe they ALL are looking for excuses not to do their cushy jobs. And unless you LIKE going all the way to Bangkok to pay $50, think the requirements the Thai bureaucracy lays on us are reasonable and AREN'T increasing year by year, etc.

[FrazeeDK]

you'd think Amercian Citizens Services at the embassy would be doing some outreach to determine how well the American expat community views their performance.. Any ACS "wardens" out there in UM that might like to comment?

[ChicagoExpat]

I think they probably know there are plenty of unhappy people out there, who don't hesitate to tell them...

[eagle]

The other embassies and organisations need to get their own house in order first.
Pain in the ar*e to get a doctor/policeman (who has no idea who you are) to certify you are still alive every year when you have a perfectly good stamp from the Immigration office that for some crazy reason is unacceptable (even though its the Immigration guy who sees all your details before stamping your passport)

Why should the Thais change a system that works perfectly well to a different one just so the UK/US/Aus etc embassies can reduce their costs by cutting down the amount of staff required.
Of course you need to prove you are single and are not entering into a Bigamous marriage before being allowed to marry a Thai. How else are you going to prove your ex wife is either dead or you have a legal divorce if not by a legally witnessed affidavit?

What is really crazy is there back in our "home" land. Most of us need to get an income certificate for Visa extension. Few months after that we get a letter to confirm that we live.

It is our retirement pension insurance company, who wants that. In fact, it is complex, because companies want to know where we live and are we trying to make some illegal tax event.

When I die, they will send same letter to my wife. Asking, if she still has same address. YES... complex.

It is lucky that in countries, which are sophisticated, that be done using Internet, not old fashioned mail.