Donald Trump within a few days of criminal charges

[Whistler]

Alex, 100% correct

[Kenr6583]

Trump won in 2016, Trump lost in 2020, in both cases, Trump lost the total electoral majority. Under the American system, he was the legitimate winner in 2016.

The big difference, Hillary conceded in 2016 and accepted the constitutional system in the USA, Trump did not in 2020 and that is a huge difference.

Exactly why I find it unbelievable that he is again being touted as the Republican candidate in the 2024 elections. But more so Biden who has visibly physically deteriorated over the last 3 years. Surly somewhere in the USA there are better, younger candidates on both sides who can do the job even if they are less than the 'saintly' or never been caught candidates normally required.

If Biden and Trump are the best the parties have to offer, the US is screwed just like the past two (2) elections.

[Whistler]

any suggestions Ken?

I cannot think of many at this point in time, I had a bit of time for Buttingig (spelling) but a small town Mayor to a stint in the cabinet is a huge leap, Kamila - No, Pence - 55, De Santis - yuk. Maybe Michelle Obama, but another black POTUS would have a lot of foaming at the mouth.

"Weird Al" Yankovic seems a sensible alternative

[Kenr6583]

any suggestions Ken?

I cannot think of many at this point in time, I had a bit of time for Buttingig (spelling) but a small town Mayor to a stint in the cabinet is a huge leap, Kamila - No, Pence - 55, De Santis - yuk. Maybe Michelle Obama, but another black POTUS would have a lot of foaming at the mouth.

"Weird Al" Yankovic seems a sensible alternative

Doesn’t matter to me as long as they are somewhat moderate and aren’t picking fights with Mickey Mouse.

[Khun Paul]

While the downside of many actions both here and in the Us are interesting. One has to say the Americans get the Political ad LaEnforcement system both seriousy flawed that they voted for . . . .

The American people did not, and do not, vote to enact or enforce laws. Federal laws are enacted by Congress, -- the House of Representatives and the Senate. State laws by the state legislatures (with exceptions for direct citizens legislation in some states). Laws are enforced by prosecutors, who are elected by the people, but the people do not decide who is prosecuted. Federal judges are appointed, state judges are appointed in most states, elected in a few. The people vote directly for the members of Congress and the members of the state legislatures. It's a classic trusteeship form of government.

So who votes for those in the Senate and Congress then, the PEOPLE may NOT vote for individual laws BUT they vote for the people making them or do they not ....eh? Hence thay have the power to decide who is sup[posed to make laws for them , or is that just a Britishthing , Americans vote for any idiot that stands as it appears being blue or red determines which person gets to be paid for the rest of their life even if they lie about it

[Khun Paul]

While the downside of many actions both here and in the Us are interesting. One has to say the Americans get the Political ad LaEnforcement system both seriousy flawed that they voted for . . . .

The American people did not, and do not, vote to enact or enforce laws. Federal laws are enacted by Congress, -- the House of Representatives and the Senate. State laws by the state legislatures (with exceptions for direct citizens legislation in some states). Laws are enforced by prosecutors, who are elected by the people, but the people do not decide who is prosecuted. Federal judges are appointed, state judges are appointed in most states, elected in a few. The people vote directly for the members of Congress and the members of the state legislatures. It's a classic trusteeship form of government.

So who votes for those in the Senate and Congress then, the PEOPLE may NOT vote for individual laws BUT they vote for the people making them or do they not ....eh? Hence thay have the power to decide who is sup[posed to make laws for them , or is that just a Britishthing , Americans vote for any idiot that stands as it appears being blue or red determines which person gets to be paid for the rest of their life even if they lie about it

[Udon Map]

While the downside of many actions both here and in the Us are interesting. One has to say the Americans get the Political ad LaEnforcement system both seriousy flawed that they voted for . . . .

The American people did not, and do not, vote to enact or enforce laws. Federal laws are enacted by Congress, -- the House of Representatives and the Senate. State laws by the state legislatures (with exceptions for direct citizens legislation in some states). Laws are enforced by prosecutors, who are elected by the people, but the people do not decide who is prosecuted. Federal judges are appointed, state judges are appointed in most states, elected in a few. The people vote directly for the members of Congress and the members of the state legislatures. It's a classic trusteeship form of government.

So who votes for those in the Senate and Congress then, the PEOPLE may NOT vote for individual laws BUT they vote for the people making them or do they not ....eh?

Yes, that's what a trusteeship form of government is.

[Khun Paul]

While the downside of many actions both here and in the Us are interesting. One has to say the Americans get the Political ad LaEnforcement system both seriousy flawed that they voted for . . . .

The American people did not, and do not, vote to enact or enforce laws. Federal laws are enacted by Congress, -- the House of Representatives and the Senate. State laws by the state legislatures (with exceptions for direct citizens legislation in some states). Laws are enforced by prosecutors, who are elected by the people, but the people do not decide who is prosecuted. Federal judges are appointed, state judges are appointed in most states, elected in a few. The people vote directly for the members of Congress and the members of the state legislatures. It's a classic trusteeship form of government.

So who votes for those in the Senate and Congress then, the PEOPLE may NOT vote for individual laws BUT they vote for the people making them or do they not ....eh?

Yes, that's what a trusteeship form of government is.

You have no idea just how daft youir comment is , every 4 years you vote and also have the authority to remove bad politicians , they do not have carte blanche to say or do what they want but in America the spineless public act like ;lemmings and follow the party line as not to do so can be worse it seems . With threasts and rallies outside peoples houses , how bloody childish

[jackspratt]

Finally, some accountability for the grifting charlatan who was happy to over-turn American democracy for his personal ego and wallet.

Donald Trump has been formally indicted over alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election, culminating in the January 6 insurrection.

The 45th president has been charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States, obstructing an official proceeding, and conspiracy against voter rights.

Along with six co-conspirators, he is accused of creating an "intense national atmosphere of mistrust and anger" with the intent to subvert the election result, perpetrating "three criminal conspiracies" in the process.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-08-02/ ... /102677210

In my view, this was, and still is, far more important than the multitude of other serious criminal cases Trump is currently facing. And yet millions of seemingly gormless cult-followers continue to pledge money and their votes towards his re-election.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

A fairly reliable newspaper tends to agree with you.

Donald Trump’s third indictment is arguably the most momentous in his country’s 247-year history because it goes right to the heart of the electoral system that underpins American democracy.

No president has faced criminal charges before Trump. Only Ulysses Grant was previously arrested, for speeding in his horse-drawn carriage. The closest parallel with Trump is Richard Nixon, who resigned rather than face impeachment over Watergate, and was pardoned by his Republican successor Gerald Ford, who believed a presidential trial could rip America apart.

Five decades later that notion will be put to the test. The historic indictment against the 45th president says that he has the right to make false statements as part of the rough and tumble of political campaigning. A jury must now decide whether Trump went too far and abused his power by knowingly lying to subvert the will of the people, as expressed at the ballot box.

Either outcome will have far-reaching consequences for America and its often rambunctious experiment in democracy — if Trump is found guilty then his millions of supporters may react in unpredictable and violent ways, while if he is cleared then the guardrails on future presidents will have dramatically shifted. All this with Trump, 77, still running for office.

The heart of the prosecution case against Trump is that he knew very well that he lost the election but nevertheless pressed ahead with a deceitful campaign to overturn the results.

The jury will be presented with numerous examples of senior aides and officials — senior Republicans in the Trump inner circle — repeatedly telling him that the game was up and his claims of fraud were bogus.

[/His state of mind will be key to securing a conviction. Did he truly believe the election was rigged or was it all a convenient ruse?

One key piece of evidence into his thinking emerged from Richard Donohue, the acting US deputy attorney-general, at the congressional inquiry into January 6. He described how Trump told Jeffrey Rosen, the acting attorney-general: “What I’m just asking you to do is just say it was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressman.”

In other words, prosecutors argue, the two most senior figures in the Department of Justice were asked to back up Trump’s unfounded claims of election fraud without evidence and to leave the spinning to him and his cronies.

Trump has already been acquitted once for the more serious accusation of “incitement of insurrection” during his impeachment trial in the Senate. The jury in that case was political: Democrats, who all voted to convict, and Republicans, just seven of whom joined them. The two-thirds majority to remove him from office was not reached.

He will now face a jury in Washington DC, an area where 92.15 per cent of voters supported Biden in 2020.

Trump cannot be prevented from running for office again even if a jury does convict him, however. The Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution bars previous office holders who “have engaged in insurrection or rebellion” against the United States. But Jack Smith, the special counsel, did not follow the recommendation of the January 6 House committee that Trump face a charge of inciting insurrection — and avoided the inevitable debate that this charge would have provoked. The trial of Trump during an election year will be no less incendiary for its omission, however, and no less of a challenge to the fabric of American democracy.quote]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/what ... -hzhhsj65z

[Whistler]

I find it difficult to understand how a serious criminal can be elected to any parliament in the USA. In Australia, you are ineligible if found guilty of a crime that has a potential sentence of 12 months or more.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I find it difficult to understand how a serious criminal can be elected to any parliament in the USA. In Australia, you are ineligible if found guilty of a crime that has a potential sentence of 12 months or more.

The U.S.A. is a different country with different rules than Australia. For one, the U.S. does not have a parliamentary system. it has a presidential system, and, two, is a Federal Republic.

[Doodoo]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... president/

Convicted, who cares

[glalt]

The recommendations from Atlanta grand jury are leaking like a tap without a washer.

Multiple actors including Trump and Rudy G seem to be within weeks of charges being laid. So much now in the public forum that Georgian authorities must be pressured to actually move to charge beyond compromised jurors can be a defence against a fair trial.

Hard to put a date on it, but I would guess way ealiar than March 31.

I think the democrats are just throwing crap against the wall and hoping some will stick.

[jackspratt]

More like Special Counsel Jack Smith throwing crap into several docks, and seeing what sticks.

[Whistler]

I find it difficult to understand how a serious criminal can be elected to any parliament in the USA. In Australia, you are ineligible if found guilty of a crime that has a potential sentence of 12 months or more.

The U.S.A. is a different country with different rules than Australia. For one, the U.S. does not have a parliamentary system. it has a presidential system, and, two, is a Federal Republic.

I think most of us are aware of the different political structures. The salient point here is the laxity of any legislation to prevent individuals who have been convicted of a serious crime, to hold any official position in government.

Even Thailand has such a law, maybe a tad loosely enforced for flour smugglers in a foreign jurisdiction.

[Mosquito]

More like Trump throwing crappy excuses for why he isn't guilty.

On the Federal / Jack Smith indictments more than enough evidence and witnesses (including Trump's own statements) to justify them.

Along with (my logical assumption) doubting a highly seasoned lawyer/prosecutor just tossing charges out there to see what sticks in a HIGH Profile case such as this......it would just weaken the overall case.

IMO, DOJ/Jack Smith already has all the evidence to back-up the charges with no lacking of willing witnesses to flip on Trump to save their own behinds.

[Whistler]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... president/

Convicted, who cares

Doodoo, should they care? If not, I would view this as peculiarly American compared to the rest of the developed world.

You cannot if convicted of a crime with a sentence

Australia 1 year
Britain 1 year
Canada 2 years
New Zealand 2 years
Italy barred for 6 years
Norway
France
Brazil
South Korea
Thailand
Germany
Etc

What sort of a country turns a blind eye to criminals being in government?


/

[Whistler]

The recommendations from Atlanta grand jury are leaking like a tap without a washer.

Multiple actors including Trump and Rudy G seem to be within weeks of charges being laid. So much now in the public forum that Georgian authorities must be pressured to actually move to charge beyond compromised jurors can be a defence against a fair trial.

Hard to put a date on it, but I would guess way ealiar than March 31.

I think the democrats are just throwing crap against the wall and hoping some will stick.

It is not the Democratic Party throwing crap. It is the law enforcement bodies laying charges after gathering sufficient evidence for the courts to order an arainment. In the case of the stolen classified documents, the judge is actually a Trump appointed Republican.

[Whistler]

My biggest concern about Trump is the jury system. We see everywhere that rusted on MAGA supporters stick to Trump regardless of everything. You only need one MAGAmaniac on any jury to spilt any decision regardless of the evidence.