TAX on Income from Abroad

[Doodoo]

How many other ideas have we seen over the years that have faded away?
I would wait and see what happens

[rct]

Suppose an expat bought a fancy million dollar condo off plan, paying 20% during construction of 2 or 3 years from 2021 to 2023. On completion in 2024, the balance 80% needs to be brought in.

Is that taxed as income?

[tamada]

How many other ideas have we seen over the years that have faded away?
I would wait and see what happens

From what I am reading elsewhere, this RD edict has already been promulgated in the Royal Gazette. Typically, that means it is a done deal despite the ambiguities and obfuscation which may be from rubbish translations. Hopefully, the PriceWaterhouseCoopers website should be updated with the official interpretation.

[ladda3904]

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... eas-income

[Doodoo]

"Doodoo wrote: ↑September 19, 2023, 6:01 pm
How many other ideas have we seen over the years that have faded away?
I would wait and see what happens
From what I am reading elsewhere, this RD edict has already been promulgated in the Royal Gazette. Typically, that means it is a done deal despite the ambiguities and obfuscation which may be from rubbish translations. Hopefully, the PriceWaterhouseCoopers website should be updated with the official interpretation."

OOOPS Read on as a redoing is in the wind
I am still waiting before any action

[Fatone]

Whats the chance they will tax pension received from abroad?

[Whistler]

Whats the chance they will tax pension received from abroad?

Even the Thai government, flawed though it is would realise that could deal a blow to Thailand. The latest figures I could find was 80,000 retirement via issued in 2018, an estimate of 100000+ by now seems likely. at a modest 500.000 baht per retiree, that brings in fifty billion Baht into the economy and no costs for health, education etc.

It would be monumentally dumb if the did this as retirees would flee to Camboadia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

[Doodoo]

To those that wish to read on.
It wasn't that difficult to research the issue myself and come up with the supporting documents.

"The Thai government encourages retirees through a retirement visa program (the common term for a program officially known as “extension of stay based on retirement” or “long-stay visa”). The kingdom issued nearly 80,000 retirement visas in 2018, a 30 percent increase over 2014."
I just plugged into the search area "number retirement visas issued in Thailand"

Thanks for your work and info Whistler

[tamada]

Whats the chance they will tax pension received from abroad?

Even the Thai government, flawed though it is would realise that could deal a blow to Thailand. The latest figures I could find was 80,000 retirement via issued in 2018, an estimate of 100000+ by now seems likely. at a modest 500.000 baht per retiree, that brings in fifty billion Baht into the economy and no costs for health, education etc.

It would be monumentally dumb if the did this as retirees would flee to Camboadia, Vietnam and the Philippines.

Yes it would. But then you look at who recently became PM, who the administration's bedfellows are and who just came in from the cold, there's still no evidence that they are brilliant at politics, planning or policy.

Chai-o!

[Whistler]

Loads car with belongings, heads East

[pipoz4444]

Welcome to todays Banking

https://aseannow.com/topic/1307466-barc ... sh-expats/

pipoz4444

[pipoz4444]

The Revenue Department has ruled that a person who resides in Thailand for up to 180 days a year and earns overseas income from work or assets will be subject to personal income tax, according to Section 48 of the Revenue Code


https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... s-targeted

pipoz4444

[deankham]

Welcome to todays Banking

https://aseannow.com/topic/1307466-barc ... sh-expats/


Barclays 2023-09-25 110602.jpg


pipoz4444

Hopefully I'm not tempting fate with this comment, but above is the main reasons I've maintained a UK address since becoming an expat almost 20 years ago.
To date no letter from Barclays telling my to close my accounts.

I've banked with Barclays since I was 16 years old, would be a real kick in the balls if they closed all my accounts!

[tamada]

I had a 'moment' while chatting with one of the few human beings that Barclays insist you need to book an appointment with to make any banking enquiries. While tapping on the keyboard and reviewing my account, she read out my local address and then stopped, took her hands off the keyboard and looking at me directly asked "Where is that exactly?" Since it's not in a named suburb or area of the city, the location is best described by nearby main roads, a river, a school and the railway station, which I did. Good job I actually knew where my niece had moved to!

From viewing my banking activity and credit history, she could probably see that there was no way this was a primary "living" account so was probably already flagged as a non-dom account.

In case they do get arsey, my backup for UK banking is a dual-currency Revolut account.

[Whistler]

The new arrangements are supposed come into force 1/1/2024. There are so many wrinkles to be sorted out, I think that will delayed.

It seems to be targeting 'Earned income', that ought to exclude pensions, as it is not earned income.

If people park their money overseas and withdraw via an ATM, they get a worse exchange rate, but it would be difficult to trace.

If tax residence transfer money to family members, they can be below the income tax threshold.

Thailand has tax treaties with other countries, also complex.

The whole idea seems too difficult to administer, I think a good chance it will be shelved

[pipoz4444]

The new arrangements are supposed come into force 1/1/2024. There are so many wrinkles to be sorted out, I think that will delayed.

It seems to be targeting 'Earned income', that ought to exclude pensions, as it is not earned income.

If people park their money overseas and withdraw via an ATM, they get a worse exchange rate, but it would be difficult to trace.

If tax residence transfer money to family members, they can be below the income tax threshold.

Thailand has tax treaties with other countries, also complex.

The whole idea seems too difficult to administer, I think a good chance it will be shelved

It also seems aimed the property market (Condos) as Expats buying Condos must demonstrate they brought their financial assets/funds in from Overseas. Therefore they will need to transfer it in from overseas, then pay that 5-10% Tax (or whatever it is) to the Bank or have it taken out at some point before they complete their transaction at the Land Office. Whoopie

It is a good way to kill off the Thai Property Market by adding another 5-10% to the cost of an Expat buying property in Bangkok etc., adding it on top of the existing Transaction Fees and Taxes payable to the Land Office, along with the Tax also payable if one sells the property in the first 7 years after purchase. To an already suffering market, saturated / oversupplied with an excess of Condos for Sale and still no Chinese in sight to come to the rescue and help curb that oversupply.

Well done Thailand Gov, just kill off the Property Market and put a lot more Thai construction workers on the unemployment scrap heap for a long time.

I would say a lot of the more affluent Developers will be knocking on the T G''s doors in the next three months with BPB's to change the course of this idea.

pipoz4444

[tamada]

Farang retirees not being willing or able to "pay that 5-10% Tax (or whatever it is).." is certainly not going to kill the Thai property market.

As for the "already suffering market, saturated / oversupplied with an excess of Condos for Sale and still no Chinese in sight to come to the rescue and help curb that oversupply...", plenty Chinese and Russians are happy to fill the Thai coffers with their property purchases.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2652371

[leterry60614]

South Korea is the only G20 country without a tax agreement with Thailand. A tax treaty is an agreement between two countries that aims to avoid double taxation on income and capital gains.

Thailand is just closing a loophole opened 40 years ago. Thai citizens with a double nationality are the target

[rick]

As was said early on, unlikely to target retirees deliberately. However we all know that intention and implementation can be very different in Thailand. Some pensions are protected by double taxation agreements (currently), and if we assume it will only apply to money remitted to Thailand, the question is, in what form?
Bank to Bank transfers presumably could be caught in the net, but other financial institutions (Wise, Western Union etc.) maybe not so easy. And what about spending and cash with foreign debit/credit cards?. And for those frequently travelling there is hard cash.
Finally, if worst case scenario is all incoming money, most of us would still pay very little. I did a quick check using a Thai tax calculator and on 680,000 baht annual transfers i got a figure of 17,000 baht. That included some but not all applicable Thai tax free allowances. So not a major disaster. And of course, we will all find various ways to cut our liabilities once we know the details.

My expectation is that i will pay zero on incoming money, about 95%. If i do have any taxable income, i will of course look at how to limit what i pay.

[Khun Paul]

I had said previously in a post discounted by the powers that be, that the rationale signed by Thailand will apply to all of the 69 countries involved, However certain income ie:- those not taxed at source or declared could be subject to taxation and suggested that for the Brits the production of a P^) would alleviate most questions regarding income. It is the Off-shore account holders or those reaping Capital gains where the monies paid are untaxed and therefore must be declared that could be subject to scrutiny.
Personally I would rather pay Thai Tax, but my pensions are deducted at source, so I must endure the heavy taxation of the UK