Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Khun Paul]

People complain and wax lyrical about what is happening in this futile war between Palistine and Israel/ Historically the Middle East including most of the African nations have an horendous history sretching back centuries of torturing and mutilating including rape of the people they capture .
Compared to the Western powers who normally treat prisoners 10000 % better .

[Udon Map]

No. No he won't. And Congress (especially this headless one) wouldn't allow any other POTUS to do it either.

My understanding is that the House can't pass any legislation or take any action on anything until there's a new Speaker.

People complain and wax lyrical about what is happening in this futile war between Palistine and Israel

I don't think that anyone's "waxing lyrical" about what Hamas has done.

wax lyrical

idiom

chiefly British, informal
--> to talk about something in a very enthusiastic way
Ex.: He waxed lyrical about the time he spent living in southern France.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, as we have just seen. Until more countries unite in making terrorism unacceptable, it will continue. Doesn't matter the size, shape, flavor, or political persuasion, -- terrorism is terrorism, and terrorists are terrorists. They only understand one language. Hamas has to be destroyed completely, regardless of the cost.

[glalt]

All Muslims are not terrorists, BUT, all terrorists are Muslims. That should tell you that there are serious problems with that so called religion. I still remember 9-11 and watching Muslims celebrating that horrible disaster. Now they are celebrating the Israel massacre. Is this normal behavior? There are no easy answers. The entire world must band together to eliminate those terrorist sickos. Muslims must stop sheltering these groups and expose them for what they are. The terrorists hide among innocent Muslims and expose the innocents to death and destruction.

[Doodoo]

"all terrorists are Muslims."
Have to disagree with this as many Terrorists are Christians, have no affiliation etc

Wikipedia definition is "Criminal acts intended or calculated to provoke a state of terror in the general public, a group of persons or particular persons for political purposes are in any circumstance unjustifiable, whatever the considerations of a political, philosophical, ideological, racial, ethnic, religious or any other nature that may be invoked to justify them."

Examples are the individuals who provoked and participated in the attack on Washington, January 6, Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) was an American domestic terrorist, Other acts of terrorism "occurred during the war included the 1863 Chesapeake Affair and the 1864 St. Albans Raid, the former being committed by British subjects"

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Doodoo is right. Terrorists aren't restricted to one religion, colour, race or nationality. They come in all shapes and sizes.

[tamada]

What is the root cause of the vacuum that allows Hamas to propagate?

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I haven't head much from the Palestinian Authority to date. Perhaps they are the vacuum.

[deankham]

update on the situation with Thai's in Israel;

Thai fatalities from Hamas attacks rise to 18: Reports
We are getting reports from multiple media outlets in Thailand that the number of Thai nationals killed during Hamas’s attacks in Israel has risen to 18.

The Khaosod Online website is also reporting that 11 Thai nationals, including 10 men and one woman, are still being held as hostages by armed Palestinian groups.

The report also quoted officials as saying that more than 3,000 Thais have asked to return home due to the conflict. The first 15 Thai workers are due to arrive in Thailand on October 12.

source: Al Jazeera news on-line

[tamada]

What’s the Israel-Palestine conflict about? A simple guide https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... mple-guide

[Udon Map]

What is the root cause of the vacuum that allows Hamas to propagate?

Complex question, and likely an equally complex answer. One answer is money. Where does it come from?

Since Egypt withdrew its support of Gaza and instituted its own blockade, goods (food, supplies, etc.) are smuggled in. Hamas imposes a tax on this smuggling. Several unrelated sources say that this brings in about USD $12 million/month. Unfortunately, instead of using the money to better the lives of the Palestinian people, Hamas leaders spend it on themselves (planes, houses, etc.) and just accumulate that which they don't spend. Additionally, U.S. intelligence estimates that over 70% of Hamas' funding comes from Iran.

[Udon Map]

What’s the Israel-Palestine conflict about? A simple guide https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... mple-guide

Interesting article, if biased. OTOH it's from Al Jazeera, so I didn't really expect objectivity. Suffice it to say that there's more to the story.

[Whistler]

The words 'compassion' and 'compromise' and its translations into Israeli and Arabic do not exist in the middle east.

[tamada]

What’s the Israel-Palestine conflict about? A simple guide https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... mple-guide

Interesting article, if biased. OTOH it's from Al Jazeera, so I didn't really expect objectivity. Suffice it to say that there's more to the story.

I am all ears for the other side’s objectivity. That's why I posted the link.

[tamada]

What is the root cause of the vacuum that allows Hamas to propagate?

Complex question, and likely an equally complex answer. One answer is money. Where does it come from?

Since Egypt withdrew its support of Gaza and instituted its own blockade, goods (food, supplies, etc.) are smuggled in. Hamas imposes a tax on this smuggling. Several unrelated sources say that this brings in about USD $12 million/month. Unfortunately, instead of using the money to better the lives of the Palestinian people, Hamas leaders spend it on themselves (planes, houses, etc.) and just accumulate that which they don't spend. Additionally, U.S. intelligence estimates that over 70% of Hamas' funding comes from Iran.

The corruption of Hamas, Fatah and the precedents like the PLO is well known. Look to Lebanon to see the same very, very sad results of failed, post-war French colonialism. Supporting puppets isn't a winning strategy but maybe that's the west's strategy all along?

The difficulty here is separating Hamas from the core Palestinian issue of where's our land now? The British have never been terribly good in that regard. I believe the various nations that constitute the still restive Balkan's were ill-served by that Anglo-British sponsored carve-up as well.

[Udon Map]

What’s the Israel-Palestine conflict about? A simple guide https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... mple-guide

Interesting article, if biased. OTOH it's from Al Jazeera, so I didn't really expect objectivity. Suffice it to say that there's more to the story.

I am all ears for the other side’s objectivity. That's why I posted the link.

Oh, I don't think that the other side is necessarily more credible. But they were the victims of the surprise attack. I wonder,did Hamas think that it would win, and drive the Israelis into the sea, as they have so often stated as their goal? A shame to see Palestinians and non-Palestinian Arabs celebrating the unnecessary deaths of so many. I think that while Hamas did achieve a stunning surprise victory, they will come to regret it in the long run. It certainly has cost Hamas, and by extension the Palestinian people, the sympathy of most of the world.

[Sport]

I am hoping Israel realises that if most of their forces are in the south, whats going to stop hezbollah attacking from the north with little resistance from Israel up there.

[Udon Map]

I am hoping Israel realises that if most of their forces are in the south, whats going to stop hezbollah attacking from the north with little resistance from Israel up there.

They just tried. Israel killed all the attackers.

[rick]

What’s the Israel-Palestine conflict about? A simple guide https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/ ... mple-guide

Interesting article, if biased. OTOH it's from Al Jazeera, so I didn't really expect objectivity. Suffice it to say that there's more to the story.

I am all ears for the other side’s objectivity. That's why I posted the link.

I actually think the Aljazeera guide is actually quite accurate. Obviously lacking a lot of detail, but matches the research i did a few years ago.
The Jewish population 120 years ago was about 5%. Within 50 years it wanted 50% of the land (although it only actually owned a few percent). Would any of you be happy if that sort of demographic and ownership shift happened in your own country?
What has been happening for the last 20 years in the West bank is simply ethnic cleansing. Settlers can do what they want (including harrassing, shooting and destroying property of Palestinians) but heaven help you if you are a Palestinian who attacks a Jewish settlement.
Also a Palestinian who marries an Israeli will be denied naturalisation in Israel. And a Jew cannot marry a Muslim in Israel (he would have to do so in another country). Sounds like Apartheid to me.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1 ... an-spouses

I am shocked by the savagery shown by Hamas to the civilians, but you have to ask yourself, why? Read the link Tam posted and you will know why.

[AlexO]

Oh, I don't think that the other side is necessarily more credible. But they were the victims of the surprise attack. I wonder,did Hamas think that it would win, and drive the Israelis into the sea, as they have so often stated as their goal? A shame to see Palestinians and non-Palestinian Arabs celebrating the unnecessary deaths of so many. I think that while Hamas did achieve a stunning surprise victory, they will come to regret it in the long run. It certainly has cost Hamas, and by extension the Palestinian people, the sympathy of most of the world.

I would argue your assertion about the loss of sympathy from "most of the world" UM. I would also question how much of the sympathy that is/was felt by those opposed to the terrorist tactics employed by HAMAS etc will be lost due to Israel's total blockade of electricity, water and food/medical supplies to Gaza. This could and probably will be construed as war against civilians which is illegal under international law. The same tactics have the international community calling for war crime charges to be brought against Poo Tin in his illegal attack on Ukraine. Israel needs to make some sensible decisions in the near future or face a backlash from its dwindling group of international supporters.

[tamada]

Oh, I don't think that the other side is necessarily more credible. But they were the victims of the surprise attack. I wonder,did Hamas think that it would win, and drive the Israelis into the sea, as they have so often stated as their goal? A shame to see Palestinians and non-Palestinian Arabs celebrating the unnecessary deaths of so many. I think that while Hamas did achieve a stunning surprise victory, they will come to regret it in the long run. It certainly has cost Hamas, and by extension the Palestinian people, the sympathy of most of the world.

I would argue your assertion about the loss of sympathy from "most of the world" UM. I would also question how much of the sympathy that is/was felt by those opposed to the terrorist tactics employed by HAMAS etc will be lost due to Israel's total blockade of electricity, water and food/medical supplies to Gaza. This could and probably will be construed as war against civilians which is illegal under international law. The same tactics have the international community calling for war crime charges to be brought against Poo Tin in his illegal attack on Ukraine. Israel needs to make some sensible decisions in the near future or face a backlash from its dwindling group of international supporters.

That pretty much sums up my view on how much Israel gets away with day-on-day, year-on-year oppression of Palestinian rights that is, in my view, disproportionately funded by the US. The WH was quick to announce the release of an $8b tranche of military funding (subsequently found to be fake news on X) and the relocation of a US nuclear carrier fleet (unfortunately not fake news) within hours of Hamas's rocket launches. However, I just listened to POTUS giving a speech evoking all the worst imagery of this current conflict from the Israeli viewpoint, including some of the more disturbing and mostly social media claims that have yet to be verified and confirmed. Playing to the Israeli gallery since WH relations with Netanyahu were already less than cordial before this kicked off.

Yes, Hamas are attacking 'innocent civilians' who for the most part are settlers in communities created for the Israeli occupational game, a game that a lot of the international community either doesn't condone or openly and legally opposes. But now Israel has chosen to cut off essential utilities to their erstwhile 'tenants' and conscripted labour force in the southern Israel tenement block that is Gaza. This frequently happens in wartime and, handily enough, Bibi has already labelled this stramash as a war.