Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Udon Map]

Time for some demographics. Jews ceased being the majority in Palestine in the 5th century AD. . . . So, what we see is waves of migrants taking over land and displacing and marginalising the original inhabitants.

If Jews were the majority until the 5th century, on what basis do you suggest that Palestinians are the original inhabitants?

We cannot undo all the injustices or events of the past, but when an area is occupied by one ethnic group for over 1500 years, surely they become the rightful inhabitants? If you think Jews still had a real claim to Palestine, then shouldn't the USA be returned to native american tribes?

Your original thesis seemed to be based on who was there first. Now you're saying that occupation for 1,500 years negates who was there first. Doesn't seem fair to change the rules in the middle to achieve the outcome you seem to favor.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Rick, just like the Hamas representative on Al-Jazeera, this is avoiding, not answering, the question. Why would Hamas engage in evil actions against Israel if they know the reaction of Israel will be swift, harsh and evil. What did the residents of Gaza gain from Hamas going into Israel? What have they lost? Israel, after all, is not a country of Quakers. And, it has a right to respond.

[rick]

Ethnic cleansing, stealing lands was normal practice in earlier times. But since 20th Century this has been deemed illegal. So how much right do jews have to a piece of land they sometimes occupied 2000 years ago (sometimes because Israel as a Jewish state often did not, other tribes also occupied parts of the area at times) It has never really been exclusively Jewish. should we also give England back to the Celts? We know that is impractical. Arabs were the dominant people in this area for around 1500 years. The Balfour declaration has lead to a century of strife, you cannot just give a country away to some other people who have a more tenuous connection.

Israel was offered a peace deal back in 2002, which was backed by most arab countries. it was accepted by the PLO, but Israel would have to return all territories captured in the 1967 war and offer some reparations to Palestinian refugees. Israel refused. Because of that there is no peace. Now Israel is using 1,000 pound bombs to try and kill the odd Hamas member they think they have identified, and causing massive civilian casualties. Actually the Hamas fighters are mainly hiding in tunnels, hardly any in Gaza have actually been killed.

As to why Hamas did it, they do not care about how many Palestinians die, but are counting on Israel to over react and kill thousands, thus maybe loosing international support. And that may just work. Yes, Hamas's hatred is immense, but how do they get so many recruits? Because a young Palestinian in Gaza has no money, little chance of work and no future. Give them a future, and Hamas will loose it's support.

Meanwhile, this year 6 Palestinian settlements in the West Bank have been abandoned this year due to Jewish settler attacks. But no Western government cares about that. Hypocrisy.

[Doodoo]

Illegal or not, ethnic cleansing and stealing of lands has happened in the 20th century numerous times
The expulsion of the Jews by Germany and the stealing not only of their lands but everything they owned, from art to gold in their teeth.
The the forced migrations and mass killings in the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda in the 1990s are other examples that have almost been forgotten.

[Udon Map]

So how much right do jews have to a piece of land they sometimes occupied 2000 years ago (sometimes because Israel as a Jewish state often did not, other tribes also occupied parts of the area at times) It has never really been exclusively Jewish.

Wait a minute, -- earlier you said that the Jews were the majority until the 5th century. Now you're saying that they "sometimes occupied" the area back then? Again, you're changing things to get to your desired result.

Israel was offered a peace deal back in 2002, which was backed by most arab countries. it was accepted by the PLO, but Israel would have to return all territories captured in the 1967 war and offer some reparations to Palestinian refugees. Israel refused.

You're right. Israel would not accept a return to the pre-1967 borders. The reason was that the agreement did nothing to put an end to terrorism. In fact there was a suicide attack on a Passover Seder in Netanya immediately before Israel rejected the proposal.

Because of that there is no peace.

Oh, dear. You really believe that there's no peace because Israel rejected the 2002 Arab peace plan? So are you suggesting that Israel should accept whatever the Arab nations say? And what about the Israeli peace plans that the Palestinian leadership rejected?

As to why Hamas did it, they do not care about how many Palestinians die . . . .

Exactly.


Separately, no response from you on the Hamas charter which clearly states that its purpose is to kill Jews. Under what scenario would you think that that would, or should, be acceptable to Israel?

[Khun Paul]

Oh dear dragging up history to even attempt to decide the future is a pointless exercise. BOTH Sides Israeli and Hamas have committed atrocities, and both are in some instances equally guilty,however in this particular instance HAMAS actions are plainly wrong and their actions against Women and Children are wrong on so many counts. considering that this attack was not advertised and the targets were specifically targeted because they were SOFT targets. Does not excuse Hamas and while the current Israeli actions may seem severe, put yourselves in their shoes, hundreds of children slaughtered including babies DELIBERATELY ( not accidently ) and hostages taken .
While I might point out the majority of the ARAB neighbours say nothing about that only to attack Israel for its actions. .
Personally I would hang drawe and quarter any Hamas member if they had done that to my family .;

[Udon Map]

BOTH Sides Israeli and Hamas have committed atrocities . . . .

Unless you can cite instances of Israelis intentionally targeting women, children, and infants, incinerating some infants and beheading others (while they were alive), I'll have to disagree with you. There is no equivalence between Israel and Hamas when it comes to atrocities.

[Udon Map]

BOTH Sides Israeli and Hamas have committed atrocities . . . .

Or listen to this young man describe how he saw a girl raped then stabbed to death, and another girl killed, and then raped. Watch as a terrorist shoots into a body on the ground to make sure that he is dead.

No, there is no equivalence.

Video from PBS Newshour: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/survi ... -out-alive

[Khun Paul]

BOTH Sides Israeli and Hamas have committed atrocities . . . .

Unless you can cite instances of Israelis intentionally targeting women, children, and infants, incinerating some infants and beheading others (while they were alive), I'll have to disagree with you. There is no equivalence between Israel and Hamas when it comes to atrocities.

I did not specfy specfic instances, however you chose to nitpick my post to trumpet your own agenda. In this situation neither side is RIGHT . Many in the world agree on that and after speaking to a friend who is Moslem and versed n these matters, like many fanatics of many faiths, Hamas does not speak for Palestine and Zionist Jews do not speak for all Jews.

SO who are we mere Mortals to speak about what is right or wrong, we only speak about what we see.

[jackspratt]

The claim of Hamas beheading babies has not been verified by either the IDF, nor Israeli civil authorities. It has also been walked back by US authorities.

[Udon Map]

BOTH Sides Israeli and Hamas have committed atrocities . . . .

Unless you can cite instances of Israelis intentionally targeting women, children, and infants, incinerating some infants and beheading others (while they were alive), I'll have to disagree with you. There is no equivalence between Israel and Hamas when it comes to atrocities.

I did not specfy specfic instances, however you chose to nitpick my post to trumpet your own agenda.

I wasn't nitpicking at all. That's what you said.

[Udon Map]

The claim of Hamas beheading babies has not been verified by either the IDF, nor Israeli civil authorities. It has also been walked back by US authorities.

A quick check online shows that you're right. Disinformation seems to be rampant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinform ... 3Hamas_war

[Doodoo]

Did I hear correctly that an official of The Israeli Government was convicted in an Israeli court of Terrorism?

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1UOJHeSZS_o

[glalt]

All the major problems the world faces centers around MONEY. People are obsessed and greedy about making profits. The rich and powerful get richer. The Israel thing is the same as when the US stole the Indian lands. The native Americans were content to live off the bounty of the land hunting , fishing and farming just enough to feed the people. Greedy people wanted that land to be profitable so they stole it. Israel wants the same thing. Governments cannot stand to see a subsidence life style. They want profits at the expense of depriving people of their lifetime living methods producing only what they need to survive. Making profits is the existing way of life and is never going to change. It's the same old story, money talks.

[Doodoo]

https://www.globalcitizen.org/en/conten ... conflicts/

[Doodoo]

No matter when a Bomb is dropped or bullet is shot , it is terrorism in the eyes of the child that is being aimed at.
There is no right or wrong in war, as all is wrong
Hamas, Palestinians, Americans, Brits, Canadians, Germans etc we are all guilty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgUd5A7d4Cs

[Laan Yaa Mo]

No matter when a Bomb is dropped or bullet is shot , it is terrorism in the eyes of the child that is being aimed at.
There is no right or wrong in war, as all is wrong
Hamas, Palestinians, Americans, Brits, Canadians, Germans etc we are all guilty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgUd5A7d4Cs

Really?!? In your humble opinion, no war ever was/is justified?

It must be really traumatic for the children (boys and girls) who are recruited as child soldiers too, don't you think?

Despite global efforts to end the use of child soldiers, girls and boys are still forced into combat - as fighters and in other roles - in at least 14 countries including the Democratic Republic of Congo, South Sudan and Somalia.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-glob ... SKBN2AC0CB

[Udon Map]

All the major problems the world faces centers around MONEY. People are obsessed and greedy about making profits. The rich and powerful get richer. The Israel thing is the same as when the US stole the Indian lands. The native Americans were content to live off the bounty of the land hunting, fishing and farming just enough to feed the people. Greedy people wanted that land to be profitable so they stole it. Israel wants the same thing.

Huh? Perhaps I've misread your post, but what potential financial benefit for Israel is there in northern (or southern) Gaza?

[Doodoo]

LOLO
In my opinion the killing of another regardless is a terrorist activity
Dont muddy the waters

[tamada]

All the major problems the world faces centers around MONEY. People are obsessed and greedy about making profits. The rich and powerful get richer. The Israel thing is the same as when the US stole the Indian lands. The native Americans were content to live off the bounty of the land hunting, fishing and farming just enough to feed the people. Greedy people wanted that land to be profitable so they stole it. Israel wants the same thing.

Huh? Perhaps I've misread your post, but what potential financial benefit for Israel is there in northern (or southern) Gaza?

It's where their forced labor comes from? Apart from that, it holds no financial or strategic value, unlike the West Bank and Golan Heights.

Interesting to note that Israel had given Palestinians 24-hours to evacuate Gaza City and the north and move south for their own safety...and then carried out air raids on the south anyway.