Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[FrazeeDK]

Hamas perpetrated a horrendous terrorist attack. What country wouldn't respond offensively against the perpetrators. The question is, how far should they go? Netanyahu has said he wants to eradicate Hamas.. Given Hamas's long time aggressive and murderous nature they probably deserve that retribution. But, again, how?

as for getting in and out of Gaza.. Prior to the Hamas attack both Israel and Egypt allowed limited transit in and out of Gaza and allowed import of specificed goods. The Egyptians have, like the Israelis slammed the door shut since the Hamas attack. The Egyptians maintain they don't want an influx of Palestinians into Egypt since the Palestinians should be in their own state... https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-ea ... 023-10-17/

[papafarang]

the uk just said its going to give $5 for every Gaza refugee ,just like colonial days we brits seem to think we have some say in the world, giving them 5 bucks each while assisting in ethnically cleansing them at the same time. The british government sending ships and marines .. how retarded. our governments are still stuck in the 1820's gunboat diplomacy, cant wait to see how this gets written down in the history books.

[tamada]

the uk just said its going to give $5 for every Gaza refugee ,just like colonial days we brits seem to think we have some say in the world, giving them 5 bucks each while assisting in ethnically cleansing them at the same time. The british government sending ships and marines .. how retarded. our governments are still stuck in the 1820's gunboat diplomacy, cant wait to see how this gets written down in the history books.

US sends a carrier, the UK sends the Navy. Biden flies in, stirs the pot and leaves, Rishi's off to meet with Bibi.

Monkey see, monkey do.

As for the Brit PM, it will go down in the history books as another, failed Tory, pre-election straw clutch.

PS: Zelenskyy must be going mental after dropping completely off the front page.

[Udon Map]

PS: Zelenskyy must be going mental after dropping completely off the front page.

I don't doubt for a minute that you're right.

U.S. intelligence now agrees that Israel didn't fire the rocket into the hospital. They now agree with Israel that the evidence shows that it was a malfunctioning rocket fired by Islamic Jihad from a nearby cemetery. Israel also has signals intelligence of a discussion among Hamas leaders immediately after the hospital blast in which they consciously decided to blame Israel. U.S. intelligence has also verified this, at least according to what I've seen on the news. The PR value to Hamas, however, is inestimably high. I don't expect Hamas or any other Arab country to consider any position other than it was israel, at least not publicly.

Objectively, we know that Palestinian rockets have misfired and fallen on Gaza before. It's far from implausible that it could have happened again. Plus, we know that Biden has called out Israel (and Netanyahu) in the past when he feels that Israel is in the wrong.

[tamada]

Those Hamas operatives who's phone conspiracy has been revealed to the world must be wondering how THAT happened. To me, it reveals an insight into the joint IDF/US surveillance apparatus. It must have been considered an expendable back channel for them to release it as "proof" rather than say they "have evidence."

[Udon Map]

To me, it reveals an insight into the joint IDF/US surveillance apparatus.

No question. And it raises all sorts of questions that go far beyond the current Israel/Hamas war.

[Doodoo]

"U.S. intelligence now agrees that Israel "
Fancy that. I will have to wait for a reliable source before I decide

[Laan Yaa Mo]

The main desk Al-Jazeera commentator this morning and their reports from Gaza state that the destruction and deaths at the Baptist Hospital in Gaza were a result of an Israeli air strike. Subsequently, Al-Jazeera notes that Isreal denies that they caused the tragedy; however, they point out that Israel and the U.S. have not provided any evidence that this is true. One should argue that the Al-Jazeera reporters and others who accuse Israel for the bombing have yet to offer any evidence either.

[Doodoo]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1021479715728019
Dont piss off the Irish

[Udon Map]

"U.S. intelligence now agrees that Israel "
Fancy that. I will have to wait for a reliable source before I decide

Well, if you're not going to believe either the U.S. or Israel, I guess you'll just go on believing that israel intentionally targeted a hospital, since that's the only other narrative. Got any evidence of that other than the unsupported and unverified statements of Hamas? Lots of people simply ignore any evidence which is contrary to their already formed opinions.

It appears that the rocket landed and exploded in an open area in front of the hospital, leaving the hospital undamaged except for a few broken windows. The hospital, itself, is still standing. If Israel had, indeed, targeted the hospital, it would have hit the hospital and destroyed the building, as it has with other buildings in Gaza.

So, you must believe that 1) Israel knew that Gazan civilians were crowded in an open area in front of the hospital, and 2) Israel then targeted that area and not the hospital building. Right.

Israel has now released a recording of the intercepted conversation in which Hamas leaders decided to blame Israel. I didn't listen, as I neither speak nor understand Arabic. But you don't seem to be interested in evidence which contradicts your beliefs.

[Udon Map]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1021479715728019
Dont piss off the Irish

And not one word about the Hamas operation which killed numerous Israelis, Americans, Thais, and others, not to mention the civilians taken hostage.

[Doodoo]

"And not one word about the Hamas operation which killed numerous Israelis, Americans, Thais, and others, not to mention the civilians taken hostage."

Awaiting a reliable source.

[Udon Map]

The main desk Al-Jazeera commentator this morning and their reports from Gaza state that the destruction and deaths at the Baptist Hospital in Gaza were a result of an Israeli air strike. Subsequently, Al-Jazeera notes that Isreal denies that they caused the tragedy; however, they point out that Israel and the U.S. have not provided any evidence that this is true. One should argue that the Al-Jazeera reporters and others who accuse Israel for the bombing have yet to offer any evidence either.

It should be pretty easy to tell the source of the rocket and explosive material from a basic chemical and structural analysis of what's left. Since Israel has no access to the site and the remains of the rocket, one might think that Hamas would be eager to share this information and prove conclusively that it was an Israeli strike.

[Udon Map]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1021479715728019
Dont piss off the Irish

And not one word about the Hamas operation which killed numerous Israelis, Americans, Thais, and others, not to mention the civilians taken hostage.

Awaiting a reliable source.

So you're also waiting for a reliable source confirming the Hamas operation into Israel in which many Israelis, Thais, Americans, and others were killed or taken hostage?

You're obviously never going to find a source reliable enough for you, as you've already made up your mind.

You could listen to the intercepted conversation of the Hamas leaders deciding to blame Israel, but then you'll just say that Israel manufactured the tape. Why not just admit it, -- there is no proof which will convince you.

[tamada]

The main desk Al-Jazeera commentator this morning and their reports from Gaza state that the destruction and deaths at the Baptist Hospital in Gaza were a result of an Israeli air strike. Subsequently, Al-Jazeera notes that Isreal denies that they caused the tragedy; however, they point out that Israel and the U.S. have not provided any evidence that this is true. One should argue that the Al-Jazeera reporters and others who accuse Israel for the bombing have yet to offer any evidence either.

Baptist Hospital? I see what you've done there.

[Doodoo]

"You're obviously never going to find a source reliable enough for you, as you've already made up your mind."
I am always amazed when people say they can read my mind. Unusually they are wrong and in this case the same

Both sides in this conflict are wrong. I am neither an Israeli fan nor a Hamas, Palestinian etc fan

As for finding a Reliable Source in this day and age, there arent any and never will now that we have Social Media. There is no way to secure a reliable source unless you personally were/are there and even then everyone sees something different.

[Udon Map]

"You're obviously never going to find a source reliable enough for you, as you've already made up your mind."
I am always amazed when people say they can read my mind. Unusually they are wrong and in this case the same

Both sides in this conflict are wrong. I am neither an Israeli fan nor a Hamas, Palestinian etc fan

As for finding a Reliable Source in this day and age, there arent any and never will now that we have Social Media. There is no way to secure a reliable source unless you personally were/are there and even then everyone sees something different.

Thus in the absence of what you consider reliable sources, you believe nothing? It's all just fabrication, right? No Hamas incursion into Israel, no bomb near the hospital in Gaza, without proof, you believe nothing, yes?

What source would you consider reliable?

I don't pretend to be able to read your mind, only your words.

[Udon Map]

Awaiting a reliable source.

How about video showing a launch from near the hospital, then the rocket turns around (an apparent malfunction) and explodes over the hospital?

https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/1 ... st-vpx.cnn

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67144061

I don't expect these videos to influence your pre-conceived beliefs about what happened, but others with a more open mind might find these videos helpful in sorting out the events. And I'd still like to know what sources you might consider to be reliable.

[Doodoo]

What source would you consider reliable?
There are none .
Even when 2 people are at a scene each one sees something different. As in your profession I would think that you should be aware of that.

[Udon Map]

What source would you consider reliable?
There are none .
Even when 2 people are at a scene each one sees something different. As in your profession I would think that you should be aware of that.

Q.E.D. No point in discussing this with you, since you refuse all information as unreliable.

In my profession, while different people see things differently, we review the evidence (like videos) and come to our own conclusion. That's why we use evidence like videos, they do not depend on someone's perception. They show what they show.