Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Doodoo]

"They show what they show." Exactly and different people perceive it differently

As my Father said if I say "I am going to kill you " what does that mean? It can be perceived in different ways and so can videos

[Laan Yaa Mo]

"As my Father said if I say "I am going to kill you " what does that mean? It can be perceived in different ways and so can videos

George was smokin a blunt when he was writing therefore the posting explains itself

Doodoo must have smokin a blunt when he was writing and responding to questions on this thread. At least his spaced out logic points in that direction. Focus, Doodoo, focus.

[rick]

Have seen a shocking video recorded by a Israeli Kibutz survivor who blames the Israeli army for many of the Israeli casualties. She was taken prisoner by Palestinian Hamas fighters, she was kept in a room with 11 others and she says not ill-treated, given water. The fighters explained that they were hostages and would be taken back to Gaza, but wanted to negotiate safe passage from the Israeli army, and waited for them to turn up. They were outside the building. The Israeli army turned up and opened fire on the group without warning, 6 of the hostages were cut down along with many of the fighters. A gunfight then began, with tanks shelling the buildings. No attempt was made to rescue the hostages. She survived but was wounded.

It has been suggested that something called "The Hannibal directive' was invoked ( this is that captured Israeli soldiers should be killed if possible by the Israeli army rather than allowing Hamas to ransom them back) but should not apply to civilians.

Many claims of atrocities committed by Hamas fighters like beheadings and rape may not be true (who knows?). There is a propaganda war on both sides, truth is the first casualty.

[Doodoo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKWr11oBUE

[Udon Map]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVKWr11oBUE

I completely agree. The Palestinian people are entitled to self-determination. Unfortunately, Hamas doesn't see it that way.

Anyway, videos aren't sufficiently reliable for you, as you said. Or are videos only sufficiently reliable if they espouse your views?

[Udon Map]

It has been suggested that something called "The Hannibal directive' was invoked ( this is that captured Israeli soldiers should be killed if possible by the Israeli army rather than allowing Hamas to ransom them back) but should not apply to civilians.

I would suggest that the history of Israel releasing hundreds and sometimes thousands of Palestinian prisoners in exchange for each Israeli soldier taken captive indicates that Israel has no Hannibal directive, but do you have a link? I'd be interested to see the video.

Also, my understanding from all the news reports I've seen (both western and Arab, Al Jazeera) is that the reason that the Hamas attack was so effective was that they first used drones to take out the cell towers, so there was no communication and the IDF didn't arrive for several hours. By that time, the terrorists were long gone with their captives. Yes, I would definitely like to see this video.

And I agree that if there is such a thing as a Hannibal Directive as you've described it, it should not apply to civilians. Military personnel have strategic and tactical information/intelligence which could be useful to an enemy, civilians do not.

[tamada]

Have seen a shocking video recorded by a Israeli Kibutz survivor who blames the Israeli army for many of the Israeli casualties. She was taken prisoner by Palestinian Hamas fighters, she was kept in a room with 11 others and she says not ill-treated, given water. The fighters explained that they were hostages and would be taken back to Gaza, but wanted to negotiate safe passage from the Israeli army, and waited for them to turn up. They were outside the building. The Israeli army turned up and opened fire on the group without warning, 6 of the hostages were cut down along with many of the fighters. A gunfight then began, with tanks shelling the buildings. No attempt was made to rescue the hostages. She survived but was wounded.

It has been suggested that something called "The Hannibal directive' was invoked ( this is that captured Israeli soldiers should be killed if possible by the Israeli army rather than allowing Hamas to ransom them back) but should not apply to civilians.

Many claims of atrocities committed by Hamas fighters like beheadings and rape may not be true (who knows?). There is a propaganda war on both sides, truth is the first casualty.

It's war. It's collateral damage. It's not the IDF's fault.

These are Hamas operatives who chose to invade Israel and attack a farm. They took hostages solely in order to negotiate their safe passage back to Gaza. They are obviously not ardent pursuers of the glorious martyrdom they their cowardly leaders rabidly ascribe to.

[Khun Paul]

I smile when I see people attempting one way or the other trying to justify actions by either party. All news is skewed and BIASED, determining what is right and what are illegal actions are blurred as soon as you state it is a war many norms go out the window.
HAMAS are not projecting the wish of the Palestinians only of their paymasters , Israelis are also trying just to live .
It is and will continue to be a thorn in the Middle eastern Politics and upheavals will occur on a regular basis , but a recent international comment rings bells. THE World is losing its humanity and that folks is not good for any of us .

[tamada]

Nice rallying call by Biden. Unite, don't hate, work together.

... meanwhile, over in Congress.

[Drunk Monkey]

Going by the evidence of Hamas voice recordings followed by the video of the actual malfunctioning rocket launch near the hospital site in Gaza its nailed on it was Islamic Jihad / Hamas who did it and they are just using it as propaganda to get the rest of the Arab world behind them.

I know its Fox but in this vid the son of a Hamas leader who has jumped ship explains first hand the total disregard Hamas has for Palestinian lives from using them as human shields to robbing all the civilian aid that enters for their fighters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCC2ihCowg

Terrible situation there and can expect to see more terrorist attacks throughout the world as the conflict ramps up.

DM

[Whistler]

IMHO there is not enough focus on Iran in this flare up. Without finance and arms from Iran, Hamas and Hezbolah would be diminished entities. While the poor people of Gaza and Isreal suffer, Iran and its ratbag fundmentalist leadership appears to getting off Scot free. The Iranian people them selves appear to have little input in Iran where the hardline fundmentalists have an iron grip.

[FrazeeDK]

referencing the "Haniibal Directive" and the interview with the Kubbutz survivor sound like it was from Tom Cooper's blog. He's just a wee bit an Israel hater...

As for the Hospital bombing. The initial stories told tales of surgeons having the OR fall down on them.. Now the stories from the surgeons reflect the fact that the hospital (per numerous photos and videos) didn't take much damage and the bomb/misfired rocket impacted over or on the parking lot outside. The "blast" crater that some reference is about 1 meter across and perhaps 10cm's deep.. I just don't see this as having been a JDAM, even the Small Diameter Bomb (SDB" version... Same with the death count.. 500?? And it sure seems like all the media took the announcement from the "Palestinian Health Ministry" (read that realistically as HAMAS) gave those huge numbers... If anything it appears that HAMAS with the willing collusion of western media is winning the Information War...

[Drunk Monkey]

IMHO there is not enough focus on Iran in this flare up. Without finance and arms from Iran, Hamas and Hezbolah would be diminished entities. While the poor people of Gaza and Isreal suffer, Iran and its ratbag fundmentalist leadership appears to getting off Scot free. The Iranian people them selves appear to have little input in Iran where the hardline fundmentalists have an iron grip.

Thats what the guy said in the vid link i posted ..re Iran being the backer and puppet master for Hamas n Hezbollah. He is the son of a Hamas leader but obviously doing his desire for US citizenship no harm by going on Fox to spill the beans.

DM

[rick]

Hannibal Directive -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Directive

[tamada]

IMHO there is not enough focus on Iran in this flare up. Without finance and arms from Iran, Hamas and Hezbolah would be diminished entities. While the poor people of Gaza and Isreal suffer, Iran and its ratbag fundmentalist leadership appears to getting off Scot free. The Iranian people them selves appear to have little input in Iran where the hardline fundmentalists have an iron grip.

Hamas and the Palestinians is just a smaller version of Iran's Islamic Republic and the Persians. Supreme power in the hands of few and f*ck the people.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Who benefits from the parking lot explosion outside the hospital? Gwynne Dyer reminds us of the question posed by Cicero:

What we’re left with is the old Latin legal strategy deployed by the statesman and lawyer Cicero in a famous case in the late Roman Republic: “Cui bono?” Who benefits from this (crime)?

Dyer goes on to offer a number of possibilities. He does note that the country with the most to lose from the explosion in the parking lot outside the Al-Ahli Al-Arabi hospital in Gaza is Israel.

https://www.niagarafallsreview.ca/opini ... 5d055.html

[Doodoo]

"Supreme power in the hands of few and f*ck the people."

Same as Canada, UK, Sri Lanka, India, USA etc Name a country it isnt, now that's a challenge

[tamada]

"Supreme power in the hands of few and f*ck the people."

Same as Canada, UK, Sri Lanka, India, USA etc Name a country it isnt, now that's a challenge

Observing the thread title and sticking to the topic at hand, now that's a challenge.

[Khun Paul]

Good to see that a Saudi Prince has chastised Hamas as well as Israel, maybe at last the Moslem world sees these organisations for what they are . Although it is difficult to see haw that will influence the terrorist paymasters Iran !!

[Doodoo]

Thats never stopped you before I will remember this day that you changed Bravo