Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[AlexO]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67246847

Wonder how many of these protesters were out on the streets in the UK celebrating after the October 7th attacks?
The Israeli Government still maintaining a very hard stance while initial support from others starting to slowly ebb away. Flip/flop Starmer now having to bow down to the anti Jew factions in his political cabal.

[tamada]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67246847

Wonder how many of these protesters were out on the streets in the UK celebrating after the October 7th attacks?
The Israeli Government still maintaining a very hard stance while initial support from others starting to slowly ebb away. Flip/flop Starmer now having to bow down to the anti Jew factions in his political cabal.

Isn't the current flake in #10 also vacillating? I mean what on earth are these "humanitarian pauses" he's suddenly yacking about NOW that he's done his "pilgrimage" to bolster Bibi's sick and unpopular nationalist administration? I mean what else is a lame duck "luck dip" Tory leader supposed to do when his party face life in the political wilderness?

Starmer is simply keeping a large quotient of British-born Muslim councillor's that represent a larger quotient of British-born Muslims onside. There's an election next year. Yes they probably cheered 9-11 as well but AFAIK no Jews were targeted there.

Pick your "cabal" carefully... as if it really matters, but just make sure you can tell your Hamas from your proxy wars.

(This written with "Life, Liberty and Levin" on Fox News playing in the background).

[Whistler]

Ditto Albanese, gutless abstention on UN vote. All lives are important not just Isreali, the world must get Irael to temper its response

[AlexO]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67246847

Wonder how many of these protesters were out on the streets in the UK celebrating after the October 7th attacks?
The Israeli Government still maintaining a very hard stance while initial support from others starting to slowly ebb away. Flip/flop Starmer now having to bow down to the anti Jew factions in his political cabal.

Isn't the current flake in #10 also vacillating? I mean what on earth are these "humanitarian pauses" he's suddenly yacking about NOW that he's done his "pilgrimage" to bolster Bibi's sick and unpopular nationalist administration? I mean what else is a lame duck "luck dip" Tory leader supposed to do when his party face life in the political wilderness?

Starmer is simply keeping a large quotient of British-born Muslim councillor's that represent a larger quotient of British-born Muslims onside. There's an election next year. Yes they probably cheered 9-11 as well but AFAIK no Jews were targeted there.

Pick your "cabal" carefully... as if it really matters, but just make sure you can tell your Hamas from your proxy wars.

(This written with "Life, Liberty and Levin" on Fox News playing in the background).

The current "flake" in No 10 is doing what most civilised nations leaderships would do, advocating aid to 'civilians' by whatever means are available while not saying 'stop' to the wronged nations legitimate reprisals against a terrorist attack on their people. If you look at the UK demo's how many are carrying stop the reprisals banners, we are sorry for the horrendous terrorist attacks, or is it just another 'Free Palestine' and from the 'River to the Sea' banners (reference to the eradication of Israel) event. Starmer, to my knowledge has ever actually chucked his hat into anything other than sound bytes and hindsight proclamations ' of course we would have done it differently' but never quite telling people what he would have done. The large quotient? (just what does that mean) of not just British born Muslims that he is now hoping to win their votes is just another failed attempt to make Post Corbyn Labour seem acceptable. If no Jews were directly targeted its only because they chose not to counter demonstrate the sick celebrations allowed to happen in the supposedly law abiding multi racial utopia that the last Socialist Government has created in the UK. Political wilderness must be hard to take Tam, you lot have been there quite a while now.

[tamada]

I watched a series of Tory ministers and their shadow cabinet contemporaries on Sky very early this morning. They are ALL talking in circles, touting the "whatever means available" mantra without mentioning how humanitarian aid to the CIVILIANS in Gaza, and access to it, is all controlled by Israel. The Israeli myth that Hamas will steal the diesel ignores the fact that a very strict, Israeli-controlled and managed diesel delivery service has been in place for years and there's no way it can be stolen or lost. The tankers are logged in with a fixed delivery destination and a fixed turnaround time, all monitored by GPS and need to be checked back out over the border.

When asked if he thought Israel's response was disproportionate, the multi-hatter, no-talent, odd-jobbing Minister for Something Else Today Grant Schapps brought up a bizarre analogy about how British people would respond if there was a similar act of barbaric terrorism in the UK as Hamas perpetrated on defenceless kibbutz dwellers and concert goers. W T F? Dancing around the questions while toeing the collective line on repeating what Hamas did. How many times do they have to invoke the images of dead babies, rape and holocaust survivors being kidnapped? It happened, it was unforgivable, we get that already. Mentioning it almost three weeks later instead of wondering why the number of Israeli dead flat-lined around 1400 somewhere around six days after the event whereas Palestinian dead is over 8000 and rising. Didn't Joe Biden advise Bibi not to be driven by revenge?

Anyway Alex, good to debate and offer opinions but there's no need to get personal and throw around clueless notions on my politics and proclivities. The last time that happened, you went into self exile.

[rick]

Meanwhile, Israel's biblical eye for an eye retaliation has so far killed over 8,000 Palestinians - 70% women and children. I am sure some of them were Hamas, but all of them?

I think Hamas is close to achieving it's aims, provoke a biblical style retaliation from Israel, which will sicken the populations of many countries around the world. It has certainly undone 30 years of rapprochement in the middle-east. I am not supporting Hamas, they are as bad as Alqueda or ISIS, but is Israel's level of response justified? it is called collective punishment, illegal in international law i believe (although it has been used by Israel against families of Palestinian terrorists for some time, by destroying the families homes at short notice).

[Udon Map]

I am not supporting Hamas, they are as bad as Alqueda or ISIS, but is Israel's level of response justified? it is called collective punishment, illegal in international law i believe (although it has been used by Israel against families of Palestinian terrorists for some time, by destroying the families homes at short notice).

How else do you get rid of Hamas, a goal upon which everyone seems to agree (except Iran)? Civilians are losing their lives and will continue to do so because their government (Hamas) is willing to sacrifice them in its effort to eradicate Israel.

[AlexO]

Anyway Alex, good to debate and offer opinions but there's no need to get personal and throw around clueless notions on my politics and proclivities. The last time that happened, you went into self exile.

Not really Tam, was just sick and tired of the usual left wing f**kwits never putting up a real argument/discussion. Usual absolute nonsense and just personal abuse of anyone who was not a half communist.
There is Rick saying that 70% of all terrorist supporters that have been killed are women and children (who provides you with the stats). Really don't keep doing that. Does not help anyone.
Who is getting personal? You have done nothing for years but to take every opportunity to castigate anything to do with the opposition of the Communist party who pretend they have the working people of the UK at heart. Just look at this years strikes in the UK .

[rick]

How else do you get rid of Hamas? Hearts and minds. Difficult to do while Hamas is in control. But bombing the population will not get the result.
Two options - first the Cathar option ('kill them all, god will recognise his own'). Second, separate out the civilians from the population to areas where Hamas cannot operate, treat them well, and slowly thin the forest in which Hamas hides (the population) until they have nowhere left to operate. But it will take time, and cost a lot. Currently, Israel seems to prefer option one.

[glalt]

It is obvious that Hamas places no value on human life. It turns my stomach to see Palestinians cheering and celebrating the massacre of innocent men women and children. It is difficult for me to have any sympathy for those who support Hamas. The terrorists are stopping the innocent Gaza residents from going south the escape the fighting. Hamas needs to keep people there in the north so they can shield and hide among them. Israel seems determined to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth once and for all regardless of the cost. They have no other choice.

[jackspratt]

Israel seems determined to wipe Hamas off the face of the earth once and for all regardless of the cost. They have no other choice.

They certainly have other choices, which don't involve the indiscriminate killing of uninvolved men, women and children.

[AlexO]

How else do you get rid of Hamas? Hearts and minds. Difficult to do while Hamas is in control. But bombing the population will not get the result.
Two options - first the Cathar option ('kill them all, god will recognise his own'). Second, separate out the civilians from the population to areas where Hamas cannot operate, treat them well, and slowly thin the forest in which Hamas hides (the population) until they have nowhere left to operate. But it will take time, and cost a lot. Currently, Israel seems to prefer option one.

No one is going to advocate your option 1. Option 2 is virtually impossible, just how do you differentiate between a non Hamas supporting civilian and a full on Hamas supporter who is not armed? There is a third option.
Cut the head off the Snake.
Iran is the full on supporter of both Hamas and Hezbollah. Both organisations would wither on the vine if the financial support, training areas, weapons etc which are currently provided were no longer available. Iran is a thorn in the side to most Western nations and many of the Sunni Middle East regimes. It might be that the current bunch of crazies running Iran need to be 'removed' to bring about peace in the Middle East.
A prime example that this works is when after 9-11 the UK demanded that the USA plastic paddies were no longer allowed to fund the IRA, in return we would provide both political and military backing to Bushes, War on Terror.
The IRA were soon at the table and there is a form of peace in Ulster now.
Given the ongoing development of WMDs in Iran perhaps sooner than later might be prudent.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Although I like your option, it isn't prudent nor practical in terms of world diplomacy.

Begin by destroying Hamas and go from there.

[tamada]

The US claims that Hamas are blocking the departure of foreign nationals that has been agreed by Egypt and Israel.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... ving-gaza/

This is an obvious and cynical incitement for nations that so far are currently prepared to only "do whatever it takes" with the drip-feed of humanitarian assistance to get into the war.

This plays along with the Iranian President recently suggesting that 'red lines' had been crossed by Israel on their Gaza offensive"...which may force everyone to take action."

https://www.iranintl.com/en/202310298727

There's also a report of IDF's first identified confrontation with Hamas's tunnel dwelling terrorists.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ ... war-hamas/

On Fox News last night, one of their on-call, retired generals was suggesting that they flood these Hamas tunnels, maybe even gas them. The interviewer quickly changed the subject after that absolutely awful suggestion. Obviously, the "general" wasn't a Jew but either way, he also hadn't considered the reality that the hostages are being held in these tunnels.

[AlexO]

Although I like your option, it isn't prudent nor practical in terms of world diplomacy.

Begin by destroying Hamas and go from there.

You cannot wipe out an ideology. Thats like saying you could wipe out Islam if you wipe out Saudi. Hamas are just the cannon fodder for Iran's aim of destroying Israel. Its Iran who are driving this.

[AlexO]

On Fox News last night, one of their on-call, retired generals was suggesting that they flood these Hamas tunnels, maybe even gas them. The interviewer quickly changed the subject after that absolutely awful suggestion. Obviously, the "general" wasn't a Jew but either way, he also hadn't considered the reality that the hostages are being held in these tunnels.


Its horrible to contemplate Tam, but from a military point of view losing a couple of hundred hostages who might never be released alive anyway as opposed to perhaps military casualties which could be in the thousands if you don't.
How do you explain to a dead soldier's mother that her son/daughter's life is/was less valuable than a hostages.

[tamada]

Meanwhile, Israel's biblical eye for an eye retaliation has so far killed over 8,000 Palestinians - 70% women and children. I am sure some of them were Hamas, but all of them?

I think Hamas is close to achieving it's aims, provoke a biblical style retaliation from Israel, which will sicken the populations of many countries around the world. It has certainly undone 30 years of rapprochement in the middle-east. I am not supporting Hamas, they are as bad as Alqueda or ISIS, but is Israel's level of response justified? it is called collective punishment, illegal in international law i believe (although it has been used by Israel against families of Palestinian terrorists for some time, by destroying the families homes at short notice).

The outcome of this global "sickening" will hopefully be Team America ending their arms-length proxy wars and take it directly to Teheran. They've got two carrier fleets in the eastern Med already so just park a third one at the pointy end of the Arabian Sea and harden the diplomacy.

Since this kicked off, there's been around twenty attacks on US military deployments in neighbouring countries that don't seem to be getting much mainstream media coverage. I have a friend on "secondment" in Jordan. He informs of a couple of attacks, one involving injuries but the few media outlets only mention strikes in Iraq and Lebanon.

[tamada]

On Fox News last night, one of their on-call, retired generals was suggesting that they flood these Hamas tunnels, maybe even gas them. The interviewer quickly changed the subject after that absolutely awful suggestion. Obviously, the "general" wasn't a Jew but either way, he also hadn't considered the reality that the hostages are being held in these tunnels.

Its horrible to contemplate Tam, but from a military point of view losing a couple of hundred hostages who might never be released alive anyway as opposed to perhaps military casualties which could be in the thousands if you don't.
How do you explain to a dead soldier's mother that her son/daughter's life is/was less valuable than a hostages.

Got to agree with the stark reality offered there. Netanyahu has already stated that the FIRST priority is to destroy Hamas completely, while hostage rescue is secondary. Saving the state of Israel is the imperative.

With Hamas allegedly preventing foreigners from being repatriated, thus pulling a hostage scenario similar to Saddam Hussein's Kuwait ill-advised and ultimately worthless gambit, the stakes are rising on both sides.

All sides better have plenty of body bags.

[tamada]

Something for westerners joining pro-Palestinian rallies to ponder.

[glalt]

The Palestinian sympathizers would do well to try to dispute this film clip. I'm not a Jew nor am I a religious person. I have always been amazed how Israel manages to survive in such a hostile land.