Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Whistler]

Israel announced that thye will take over security for Gaza after this military action is finished. A very smart move, if they control the police, it will be difficult for Hamas (whatever is left of it) to operate within Gaza with impunity. Of course many will interpret this as a territory grab, but if it is as stated, a very smart move.

[jackspratt]

Israel announced that thye will take over security for Gaza after this military action is finished.......

Any announcement whether they are going to encourage the establishment and growth of Israeli settlements within Gaza - as they have done in the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

[Whistler]

Not yet Jack, if they did it would not surprise anybody.

[Whistler]

What none of us mortals know is what is going on behind the scenes. The USA will almost certainly be asking for behind the scenes stuff from the Israel. It is in everybody's interest apart from those villains in Iran to achieve stability. In my view, nothing will happen until a lasting 2 state agreement is accepted by all.

[tamada]

Conflict in government. Within hours of Netanyahu publicly saying that Israel will occupy Gaza after the completion of their mission to destroy Hamas, the Israeli Defence Minister says exactly the opposite. He also claims that they have the Hamas commander trapped in the tunnels, knowing exactly where he is, and now is the time for Hamas to release all the hostages.

[Doodoo]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/9571540/is ... chokehold/

As in any organization if the Leader is captured or killed an alternate will soon step in to carry on the cause. Will Hamas survive? maybe not in this name but another group will take over the cause too liberate the Palestinians.

[Udon Map]

Israel announced that thye will take over security for Gaza after this military action is finished. A very smart move, if they control the police, it will be difficult for Hamas (whatever is left of it) to operate within Gaza with impunity. Of course many will interpret this as a territory grab, but if it is as stated, a very smart move.

Additionally, Israeli control might permit elections in Gaza (which Hamas has refused to hold since it took over in 2005) so that the free will of the Gazan residents can be determined and implemented.

[tamada]

Israel announced that thye will take over security for Gaza after this military action is finished. A very smart move, if they control the police, it will be difficult for Hamas (whatever is left of it) to operate within Gaza with impunity. Of course many will interpret this as a territory grab, but if it is as stated, a very smart move.

Additionally, Israeli control might permit elections in Gaza (which Hamas has refused to hold since it took over in 2005) so that the free will of the Gazan residents can be determined and implemented.

It's not Hamas that's stopping these elections. It's the incumbent who's refusing to admit that it's their own corrupt practices with their own unpopular leadership of Fatah that's handed Hamas the political initiative. Mahmoud Abbas has been the one hamstringing any self-determination. When your people get desperate, they'll go with whoever promises change. Unfortunately, it's pretty much Hobson's Choice for Palestinians. Maybe this will change after the elimination of Hamas.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/84509

[Udon Map]

Israel announced that thye will take over security for Gaza after this military action is finished. A very smart move, if they control the police, it will be difficult for Hamas (whatever is left of it) to operate within Gaza with impunity. Of course many will interpret this as a territory grab, but if it is as stated, a very smart move.

Additionally, Israeli control might permit elections in Gaza (which Hamas has refused to hold since it took over in 2005) so that the free will of the Gazan residents can be determined and implemented.

It's not Hamas that's stopping these elections. It's the incumbent who's refusing to admit that it's their own corrupt practices with their own unpopular leadership of Fatah that's handed Hamas the political initiative. Mahmoud Abbas has been the one hamstringing any self-determination. When your people get desperate, they'll go with whoever promises change. Unfortunately, it's pretty much Hobson's Choice for Palestinians. Maybe this will change after the elimination of Hamas.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/84509

Weren't Abbas and the PA thrown out of Gaza by Hamas in 2005?

[Udon Map]

The much touted humanitarian crisis in Gaza, -- perhaps Hamas should start taking care of its own people.

Arab and Western officials say there is substance to Israeli claims of Hamas stockpiling supplies, including desperately needed food and fuel. Hamas, they say, has spent years building dozens of kilometers of tunnels under the strip where it has amassed stores of virtually everything needed for a drawn-out fight.

Finally, the Arab and western countries agree on something in this war.

Hamas has hundreds of thousands of gallons of fuel for vehicles and rockets; caches of ammunition, explosives and materials to make more; and stockpiles of food, water and medicine, the officials said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/27/worl ... -food.html

[tamada]

Israel announced that thye will take over security for Gaza after this military action is finished. A very smart move, if they control the police, it will be difficult for Hamas (whatever is left of it) to operate within Gaza with impunity. Of course many will interpret this as a territory grab, but if it is as stated, a very smart move.

Additionally, Israeli control might permit elections in Gaza (which Hamas has refused to hold since it took over in 2005) so that the free will of the Gazan residents can be determined and implemented.

It's not Hamas that's stopping these elections. It's the incumbent who's refusing to admit that it's their own corrupt practices with their own unpopular leadership of Fatah that's handed Hamas the political initiative. Mahmoud Abbas has been the one hamstringing any self-determination. When your people get desperate, they'll go with whoever promises change. Unfortunately, it's pretty much Hobson's Choice for Palestinians. Maybe this will change after the elimination of Hamas.

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/84509

Weren't Abbas and the PA thrown out of Gaza by Hamas in 2005?

Yes, but despite Hamas having the majority in the collective PA parliament and "owning" Gaza, they can't call an election. Only the President can do that and he hasn't since 2006 after they totally lost Gaza to Hamas and barely clinged on in the West Bank. At that time, Hamas had politically outmanoeuvred Fatah with strategic and peaceful alliances with minor factions. The stasis incurred by Abbas's clinging to power is partly enabling foreign actors to intervene and manipulate Palestinians in their proxy wars.

[mak]

A recent movie, "Golda", with some historical relevance.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14454876/? ... _3_q_golda

[FrazeeDK]

"Weren't Abbas and the PA thrown out of Gaza by Hamas in 2005?" Yup and after Hamas won the elections in Gaza they made damn sure that any Fatah elements either left or were "thrown" out of tall buildings.. As for Hamas not being able to have an election because only the PA President can call for one, well.. I'd say that Hamas could do pretty much whatever it wanted to do vis-a-vis running Gaza..

Here's an interesting editorial https://www.channelnewsasia.com/comment ... ar-3903076

[jackspratt]

Interesting statistics:

Ukraine size - ~ 603,000km square
Gaza size - 365km square

Russia's invasion of Ukraine started - 24/2/22
Israel's bombing of Gaza started - 7/10/23

Civilian deaths in Ukraine over 20 months since invasion - approx 10,000
Civilian deaths in Russia - attributed to the war - approx 100

Civilian deaths in Gaza in 1 month since Hamas terrorist attack - approx 10,000
Civilian deaths in Israel, including the Hamas slaughter - approx 1400

[AlexO]

Interesting statistics:

Ukraine size - ~ 603,000km square
Gaza size - 365km square

Russia's invasion of Ukraine started - 24/2/22
Israel's bombing of Gaza started - 7/10/23

Civilian deaths in Ukraine over 20 months since invasion - approx 10,000
Civilian deaths in Russia - attributed to the war - approx 100

Civilian deaths in Gaza in 1 month since Hamas terrorist attack - approx 10,000
Civilian deaths in Israel, including the Hamas slaughter - approx 1400

sPratty
Why do you find the statistics interesting?
Do you glory in peoples deaths?
Why do you accept casualty figures issued by a terrorist organisation as fact.
The casualty figures in Ukraine are horrendous and most of them are (Ukrainian) civilians mobilised to try and fight the Communist Aggressor Poo Tin.
I have yet to see any verifiable evidence of the thousands of women and children that Hamas claim to have been killed by Israeli actions. Plenty of wounded kids which is horrid but surly the Hamas propaganda machine would be showing more women and kids funerals, they normally don't miss opportunities like that.
As I said, an explanation of why you find casualty figures "interesting" would be welcome.

[jackspratt]

The numbers speak for themselves, Alex.

10,000 Ukrainian civilians in a country 1500 times the size of Gaza killed by Russian aggression in 20 months.

10,000 Gazan civilians killed by Israeli aggression in 1 month.

The comparison is not perfect, but draw whatever conclusion you feel comfortable with.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

Blame Hamas. They knew the Iraeli response to their attacks in Israel would be swift and hard, but they went ahead and put the lives of innocent Palestinians at risk anyway. The blame for the number of deaths can be squarely put at the feet of Hamas.

[Udon Map]

10,000 Gazan civilians killed by Israeli aggression in 1 month.

1. Israeli aggression? You think that the Israelis are the aggressors in this war the same as Russia is the aggressor in Ukraine?

2. You believe Hamas' numbers? (See AlexO's post upthread.)

[rick]

Well, when you are oppressed fand dispossesd for 50 plus years, something will happen for sure.

[tamada]

Well, when you are oppressed fand dispossesd for 50 plus years, something will happen for sure.

Dispossessed of something they never possessed.

I see.