Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[tamada]

When it comes to the UN...

The State of Palestine has been accepted as an observer state of the United Nations General Assembly in November 2012.

As of 2 June 2023, 139 of the 193 United Nations (UN) member states have recognized the State of Palestine.

Israel is recognized by 165.

[FrazeeDK]

of course, Gaza under Hamas rule is not part of the "Palestinian State" which is under the Palestinian Authority that is dominated by Fatah and the old corrupt gerontocracy of the PLO.

[tamada]

If the IDF is waging a war in a country that isn't recognised by the UN, why is the UN bothering?

I was referring to the State of Palestine as recognised by the UN. I have no idea if the "Palestinian State" is something different or if it is, that those bearing a candle for them, including the UN, is aware of any difference.

By signing the Oslo Accord, the Palestinian Authority and Israel conditionally recognized each other's right to govern specific areas of the country. I haven't been able to find any evidence that the UN has officially unrecognised Gaza due to Hamas being the governing authority there.

[Udon Map]

Hamas.jpg (2.92 KiB) Viewed 1630 times

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CyTsgKhN ... UmpVF5zWrU

[Udon Map]

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that a two state solution is unlikely to work.

There are Jews everywhere. We must attack every Jew on the face of the planet. We must slaughter and kill them. ... We want to see knives. ... How much is a Jew's throat worth? ... [A]ll our sisters are ready to carry an explosive belt. ... By Allah you will be killed with our belts. ... No to negotiations, no to recognizing Israel. We will never recognize Israel.

https://twitter.com/amjadt25/status/173 ... gr%5Etweet

[jackspratt]

There are nutters on both sides of the argument.

This guy, whoever he is, could be matched up on the Israeli side, and at the end of the day is irrelevant to a 2 state solution.

[Udon Map]

There are nutters on both sides of the argument.

This guy, whoever he is, could be matched up on the Israeli side, and at the end of the day is irrelevant to a 2 state solution.

i agree with you, except that the views espoused by this nut are the official position of Hamas, the governing body in Gaza. In Israel, they're just nutters.

[Doodoo]

UN MEMBERS are still pushing for a ceasefire

U.N. General Assembly overwhelmingly votes to demand an immediate ceasefire in Israel-Hamas war
https://www.yahoo.com/news/un-general-a ... 38024.html

[Doodoo]

Israel drove suitcases stuffed with cash into Gaza to keep Hamas in power: New York Times

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-drove ... 54972.html

[Udon Map]

Israel drove suitcases stuffed with cash into Gaza to keep Hamas in power: New York Times

That's not what the NYTimes article says. You implied that Israel did this, and Israel alone. It wasn't Israel's cash, It was Qatar's. Israel only escorted a Qatari official to ensure his safety, it didn't supply the money, carry it, or deliver it. That was all done by the Qatari on behalf of his country.

Next time, why not link to the actual story instead of linking to a news story that summarizes another news story?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/worl ... =url-share

[Khun Paul]

The wonderful TWO STATE solution being proposed is the same as last timne twice rejected by the Palestinians, this time not going to happen . Over 4000 years of Jewish people living there together with Arabs etc and NOW some MUSLIM TERRORIST Organisation is wanting to wipe JEWS OFF THE FACE OF THE Earth.
Anyone seeing any resemblance to the Nazis here plus why do you think major Arab ( Muslim ) nations are staying out of this .

[rick]

As far a s i am concerned, Israel can kill any Hamas member they want. BUT the civilian casualties strongly suggest that little attempt has been made to differentiate between Hamas and civilians, as most of the casualties are woman and children. The recent deaths of 3 Israeli hostages at the hands of the IDF even though they were waving a makeshift white flag shows that the actual policy is 'if it moves, kill it'.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

As far a s i am concerned, Israel can kill any Hamas member they want. BUT the civilian casualties strongly suggest that little attempt has been made to differentiate between Hamas and civilians, as most of the casualties are woman and children. The recent deaths of 3 Israeli hostages at the hands of the IDF even though they were waving a makeshift white flag shows that the actual policy is 'if it moves, kill it'.

How much care did Hamas in distinguishing between soldiers and civilians take back on October 7th? Maybe the U.N and others should ask themselves that question before accusing Israel of anything.

[jackspratt]

Egregious behaviour needs to be exposed, and called out, regardless of which party is perpetrating it.

And even more so when whichever party is trying to claim the moral high ground.

[jackspratt]

It is now a month since claims were made by Israel - to justify its attacks - that a Hamas command centre existed below Al-Shifa, the largest hospital in Gaza.

Has any credible evidence emerged in that time to support such claims?

[Udon Map]

It is now a month since claims were made by Israel - to justify its attacks - that a Hamas command centre existed below Al-Shifa, the largest hospital in Gaza.

Has any credible evidence emerged in that time to support such claims?

Amnesty International Report:

Hamas forces used the abandoned areas of al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City, including the outpatients’ clinic area, to detain, interrogate, torture and otherwise ill-treat suspects, even as other parts of the hospital continued to function as a medical centre.

Click on link:

2015 Amnesty International Report.pdf

(1.05 MiB) Downloaded 72 times

Amnesty International website:

As well as carrying out unlawful killings, others abducted by Hamas were subjected to torture, including severe beatings with truncheons, gun butts, hoses and wire or held in stress positions. Some were interrogated and tortured or otherwise ill-treated in a disused outpatient's clinic within the grounds of Gaza City's main al-Shifa hospital.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... -conflict/




Admitted by Hamas terrorist during questioning: https://www.ynetnews.com/article/bkrxjhcf6

[jackspratt]

It's now 10 years since the Amnesty report you quote.

And is an interrogation centre from 2014 the same as a command centre from 2023?

I would suggest that if the evidence were there, the IDF and Israeli government would have released it well before now, given that they have been in control of northern Gaza for some weeks.

Israel-Gaza: WHO calls Al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath' as France condemns Israel for Rafah strike
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-18/ ... /103239904

[Udon Map]

I would suggest that if the evidence were there, the IDF and Israeli government would have released it well before now, given that they have been in control of northern Gaza for some weeks.

Israel-Gaza: WHO calls Al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath' as France condemns Israel for Rafah strike
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-18/ ... /103239904

No question that it was a bloodbath.

And is an interrogation centre from 2014 the same as a command centre from 2023?

Yes, Why would Hamas would have moved it since 2014? Israel wasn't invading, and Hamas really had nothing to fear. The response by Israel to Hamas' October attack was far more severe than Hamas had imagined.

And then you also have the testimony of the Hamas terrorists who were captured (last link in my post above).

It's now 10 years since the Amnesty report you quote.

True, but I've seen nothing which would indicate that Hamas has changed its ways since then. Have you? Here's a 2022 report from Amnesty International: https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/mid ... -state-of/

[tamada]

It is now a month since claims were made by Israel - to justify its attacks - that a Hamas command centre existed below Al-Shifa, the largest hospital in Gaza.

Has any credible evidence emerged in that time to support such claims?

Cool your jets. The last I read, the war is still ongoing.

We'll get back to you on this after Hamas is eradicated (and the Iranian mullah's are toast).

[tamada]

It's now 10 years since the Amnesty report you quote.

And is an interrogation centre from 2014 the same as a command centre from 2023?

I would suggest that if the evidence were there, the IDF and Israeli government would have released it well before now, given that they have been in control of northern Gaza for some weeks.

Israel-Gaza: WHO calls Al-Shifa hospital a 'bloodbath' as France condemns Israel for Rafah strike
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-12-18/ ... /103239904

Why would Hamas need such a thing as an 'interrogation centre' inside their own country? Who exactly are they 'interrogating'?

And why?