Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Whistler]

I think it is impossible to view this conflict without a range of fixed feelings. Much has been said about Israel stealing Palestine from the Arabs. This started late last century and accelerated after WWI.

The truth is, there was no such country as Palestine when this return of Jews started in earnest, there were always Jews & Christians in the area representing about 20% of the population, even under the Ottoman Empire. By 1890, the area was divided into around 20 districts under the rule of Turkey. It was not a country. After WWI it was a vacuum with no centralised government apart from being a protectorate of Britain.

The Arabs have never worked in a co-operative fashion with either the Jews or Christian Arabs. By 1948, the Arabs still refused to negotiate, either for a two state solution or in any way recognising the Jewish settlers, they wanted to own the entire region.

The Jewish people have had their own significant cohort of intransigents, they were of course described as terrorists post WWII, but I suggest that the Americans were regarded the same way by the British in the 18th Century. That was 75 years ago, the state of Israel is a reality now, recognised by some Arab nations but still the enemy by Iran and several other Arab nations.

The upshot, Israel is going to flatten Palestinian terrorists, as for the ordinary Palestinian, Hamas doesn't care, Hezbollah does not care, Iran does not care. Israel has now adopted a policy of enough is enough and frankly, I cant blame them, this has to end.

[jackspratt]

The upshot, Israel is going to flatten Palestinian terrorists, as for the ordinary Palestinian, Hamas doesn't care, Hezbollah does not care, Iran does not care. Israel has now adopted a policy of enough is enough and frankly, I cant blame them, this has to end.

I'm sure your brief history lesson could be dissected and most certainly disputed.

As for "enough is enough", fortunately a sizeable section of the rest of the world cares. And the Palestinians most certainly care about what is currently being described as genocide in the Gaza Strip.

As for Israel itself:

‘It is a time of witch hunts in Israel’: teacher held in solitary confinement for posting concern about Gaza deaths

Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public..........

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... aza-deaths

[Whistler]

Jack,

Certainly not cut and dried at all Jack, both sides of the issues have compelling arguments

[AlexO]

As for Israel itself:

‘It is a time of witch hunts in Israel’: teacher held in solitary confinement for posting concern about Gaza deaths

Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public..........

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... aza-deaths

Ah, the good old Guardian. Send us your money so we can continue to publish left wing crap.

[jackspratt]

Whistles, are you stealing my posts?

[tamada]

The upshot, Israel is going to flatten Palestinian terrorists, as for the ordinary Palestinian, Hamas doesn't care, Hezbollah does not care, Iran does not care. Israel has now adopted a policy of enough is enough and frankly, I cant blame them, this has to end.

I'm sure your brief history lesson could be dissected and most certainly disputed.

As for "enough is enough", fortunately a sizeable section of the rest of the world cares. And the Palestinians most certainly care about what is currently being described as genocide in the Gaza Strip.

There's no such thing as Palestinian genocide. Their official population number increases year-on-year. There's absolutely nothing happening that comes remotely close to genocide.

[jackspratt]

You seem to misunderstand what genocide means.

[AlexO]

You seem to misunderstand what genocide means.

Don't think so Pratty.
Has Israel invaded other nations with the intent to identify and exterminate all Palestinians? Has the Israeli government stated that it wants to wipe the Palestinians from the face of the Earth.
Dont see many cattle trucks, extermination camps , gas chambers etc.
Maybe, you need to check your dictionary again.
"
the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group"
If you count Hamas as a group, good luck. Most of us think they are just a bunch of Iranian backed terrorists.

[jackspratt]

It's not the 1940s any more Alex - artillery and aerial bombing, together with starvation, may be found to be the method being used today.

The current definition of Genocide is set out in Article II of the Genocide
Convention:
Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in
whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated
to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreventio ... et-ENG.pdf

[tamada]

It's not the 1940s any more Alex - artillery and aerial bombing, together with starvation, may be found to be the method being used today.

The current definition of Genocide is set out in Article II of the Genocide
Convention:
Genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in
whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated
to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

https://www.un.org/en/genocidepreventio ... et-ENG.pdf

Method being used to do what?

The Palestinian population is GROWING.

There's plenty of self-help stuff on the internet for those who find themselves too easily riled up by the overuse of emotive language.

[jackspratt]

Must be plenty of births occurring in Gaza at the moment.

Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which massively exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years, Oxfam said today, as the escalation of hostilities nears its 100th day.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases ... lict-oxfam

Not sure what is available on the 'net by way of comprehension lessons.

[AlexO]

Must be plenty of births occurring in Gaza at the moment.

Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which massively exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years, Oxfam said today, as the escalation of hostilities nears its 100th day.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases ... lict-oxfam

Not sure what is available on the 'net by way of comprehension lessons.

Wow, really Pratt. 250 a day for 100 days = 25000 dead, most of them women and children.
Wonder where all the manly heroic terrorist cowards are hiding.
Great way to stop the collateral damage, come out and fight like men.
You will still get a few baby goats to abuse in Paradise if you die.

[AlexO]

How many people died in the Ukraine war 2023?
Meanwhile, the United Nations confirmed that by 24 September 2023, 9,701 civilians had been killed and 17,748 had been injured, but said they believe the real number is higher. In April 2022 the civilian death toll included more than 200 children.

Hope this gets you excited,
War is horrible.
Strange how the percentage of children casualties is massively different in both conflicts.

[jackspratt]

Great way to stop the collateral damage, come out and fight like men.
You will still get a few baby goats to abuse in Paradise if you die.

Alex, using your definition of "race", I wonder if that doesn't make you a racist?

[AlexO]

Well [Deleted] where did I use race.
I feel for the decent Palestinians, but they brought it upon themselves (silently supporting terror).
The children doing sling shots now will soon be raping and murdering, same as their older peers.

Same as Ulster, thousands dead and maimed and nothing changes apart from the lead terrorists get a pension.

[Whistler]

With you Alex

[tamada]

Must be plenty of births occurring in Gaza at the moment.

Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which massively exceeds the daily death toll of any other major conflict of recent years, Oxfam said today, as the escalation of hostilities nears its 100th day.
https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases ... lict-oxfam

Not sure what is available on the 'net by way of comprehension lessons.

I don't know, I've never needed to look. In the meantime, "According to the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS), the number of Palestinians worldwide at the end of 2003 was 9.6 million, an increase of 800,000 since 2001."

Diaspora, it's not just for us entitled and opinionated old white folks lording it over the locals in the tropics you know.

[Udon Map]

‘It is a time of witch hunts in Israel’: teacher held in solitary confinement for posting concern about Gaza deaths

Meir Baruchin, who was fired and jailed for criticising the military, says that many who agree with him are afraid to go public..........

That's not quite the whole story. Here's a bit more detail:

Dr. Meir Baruchin accused IDF soldiers of raping Palestinian women and allegedly justified the rape of Israeli women by Hamas terrorists.

Three weeks after allegations of incitement were made against Dr. Meir Baruchin, a civics teacher from Jerusalem, the Jerusalem District Police arrested him and have now extended his remand.

The Ministry of Education confirmed that they had filed a complaint leading to his arrest, following an investigation prompted by an article about him that was published in Maariv.

Baruchin, who faced criticism from his students for allegedly inciting resistance and preaching against the IDF, posted new statements on Facebook. In his posts, he accused IDF soldiers of raping Palestinian women since the establishment of the state, even though it was a time of war.

He also allegedly justified the rape of Israeli women by Hamas terrorists.He also allegedly justified the rape of Israeli women by Hamas terrorists.

The town of Petah Tikva, where Baruchin was employed, initiated a hearing to terminate his position within the municipal education system due to his statements against the IDF and security forces.

The police received a complaint from the Ministry of Education and Petah Tikva Municipality, leading to Baruchin's suspension and subsequent arrest.

The police investigation focused on the teacher's support and identification with Hamas, as well as his false accusations against IDF soldiers.

The suspect, a resident of Jerusalem, was arrested and his detention was extended by the court. Criminal proceedings were also initiated against him following the termination of his teaching position.

In previous publications, Baruchin had referred to IDF pilots as child killers and justified terrorism. He had also made statements against the State of Israel that aided terrorism and gave it legitimacy.

The teachers at his former school are urging the Ministry of Education to revoke his teaching license.

You seem to misunderstand what genocide means.

Has Israel invaded other nations with the intent to identify and exterminate all Palestinians? Has the Israeli government stated that it wants to wipe the Palestinians from the face of the Earth.

Exactly. Implicit in "genocide" is intent. It is not Israel's intent to kill all Palestinians. (Compare with Hamas, whose charter says that it's primary goal is the elimination of Jews.) Israel's intent is to eliminate Hamas.

[jackspratt]

Thanks for the further information on Mr Baruchin - that certainly puts a different colour on the Guardian article.

On the Hamas charter, I understand it calls for the elimination of Israel, rather than all Jews. Happy to be corrected.

[Udon Map]

On the Hamas charter, I understand it calls for the elimination of Israel, rather than all Jews. Happy to be corrected.

The original 1988 Hamas charter contained this paragraph:

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

The charter was revised in 2017. Here's a pretty comprehensive analysis of the history of the two documents and the differences/changes: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/un ... r-AA1i0jaZ.