TAX on Income from Abroad

[Potamoi]

Yup, just did a bit of checking on my last three Wise transfers and ForEx rates.

Wise on average is about 0.5% higher than average between Buy/Sell rates on the day for ~9000 USD transfers.
Wise fee is about $69.50

WF rate for ~900 USD is about 1% higher that the average between Buy/Sell rates on the day
WF fee is slightly less than 0 with the reimbursment.

I suppose my point is that it is not a huge loss to just use a US ATM card out of convienence or trying to put a few more degrees of separation in there (which was not my actual intention).

My take away is ATM is pretty convenient when one needs 30k baht but even with international ATM fee reimbursment I leave about 5 bucks on the table per transfer when comparing it to a 10 times larger Wise transfer. Then there is the waiting 1 day between ATM transfers in order to get the reimbursment which is NOT convienent and fuel not accounted for to go to the ATM. Larger transfers are best done with Wise for sure. I would likely save a bit more watching the ForEx rates and do larger transfers when the timing is right obviously.

Bottom line is that using certain ATM cards it is not necessarily the end of the world as far as what it costs to do so if the amounts needed are low enough.

Thanks for the discussion as it prompted me to look back and crack open Excel for some comparison examples and verify what I kind of knew intuitively.

[pipoz4444]

Has anyone every used True Money to transfer money into Thailand from outside

pipoz4444

[glalt]

I make wire transfers from my US Citibank to my Thai bank maybe once a year. It costs me $45 dollars. The cost is the same regardless of the amount you transfer. I always transfer in US dollars. I once made the mistake of the US bank converting to baht. That was an expensive mistake. I have not used my US Citibank card since my last trip to Cambodia and that was several years ago. I do regularly use my Thai ATM card (free) and my Bank of America credit card for online purchases. Citibank US cancelled my credit credit card years ago when I retired here in Thailand. I thought it wise to use and keep active the BOA US credit card since many US banks refuse to issue a credit card for overseas expats. I certainly have no love for US Citibank but since I am able to have my pension checks direct deposited there and make wire transfers entirely online I put up with their hatred of US citizen expats.

[Laan Yaa Mo]

I make wire transfers from my US Citibank to my Thai bank maybe once a year. It costs me $45 dollars. The cost is the same regardless of the amount you transfer. I always transfer in US dollars. I once made the mistake of the US bank converting to baht. That was an expensive mistake. I have not used my US Citibank card since my last trip to Cambodia and that was several years ago. I do regularly use my Thai ATM card (free) and my Bank of America credit card for online purchases. Citibank US cancelled my credit credit card years ago when I retired here in Thailand. I thought it wise to use and keep active the BOA US credit card since many US banks refuse to issue a credit card for overseas expats. I certainly have no love for US Citibank but since I am able to have my pension checks direct deposited there and make wire transfers entirely online I put up with their hatred of US citizen expats.

I made the mistake of having my Canadian credit union transfer funds in Canadian dollars once. The credit union explained it was cheaper to send the money in Thai baht as I got a better exchange rate that way. The downside is that I have to call the credit union in Canada every month and ask them to transfer money to my Thai account.

[glalt]

That's about the only good thing about US Citibank. I am able to make a wire transfer with no fax or phone calls. I really can't say anything else good about them. I can't buy or cash in CD's without jumping through their hoops. They make no sense because wire transfers are simple.

[Bandung_Dero]

As to Wise
If you wish to use the payments for immigration then Wise will provide proof into a few banks that it is an international transfer into your account, usually it’s a domestic transfer but not always if you request it be provably international.

Udon Immigration do not question this line in the annual KBank statement when extending a retirement visa based on 65K coming from a Foreign source.

15-Jan-2024 Trade Finance Deposit THB 66,374.40 THB xxx,891.96 Trade Finance From WISE PAYMENTS LIMITED X8994 WISE PAYMENTS LIMI++

The official Wise receipt shows the country of origin with ALL transaction details.

Who knows what the Tax office will make of it ?????

EDIT:-
Just to add, Wise charge on that transaction was AUD$18.69 or 438 Baht (0.65%) on the official x-rates at the time.
AND, completed in less that 30 seconds from me transferring the AUD into their Aus. bank.

[sometimewoodworker]

Udon Immigration do not question this line in the annual KBank statement when extending a retirement visa based on 65K coming from a Foreign source.

15-Jan-2024 Trade Finance Deposit THB 66,374.40 THB xxx,891.96 Trade Finance From WISE PAYMENTS LIMITED X8994 WISE PAYMENTS LIMI++

The official Wise receipt shows the country of origin with ALL transaction details.

Who knows what the Tax office will make of it ?????

EDIT:-
Just to add, Wise charge on that transaction was AUD$18.69 or 438 Baht (0.65%) on the official x-rates at the time.
AND, completed in less that 30 seconds from me transferring the AUD into their Aus. bank.

The tax office will have it as a foreign transfer as immigration does.

The thing that remains to be seen is if we will actually be required to submit tax forms, if we are then it would be on you to provide proof of the origin of the money. If, as you say/think, the Australian pension will not be taxed in Thailand then you will have to prove that the money you got was pension.

AFIR there are 3 Thai banks that it it is possible to get Wise to make an international transfer into. Other Thai banks are domestic transfers (though it maybe possible with some hard work to get the complete routing information)

Bangkok Bank is one
I would have to speculate as to the other 2 (though they maybe on the Wise website)

[Bandung_Dero]

Yep, all we can say is it will be a hornet's nest of confusion as was the BS health insurance and the 300 baht tourist levy of a few years ago!

[Whistler]

A very useful thread, thank you all for your well informed observations. This shows the true value of this forum

[sometimewoodworker]

Yep, all we can say is it will be a hornet's nest of confusion as was the BS health insurance and the 300 baht tourist levy of a few years ago!

The confusion is all being promulgated by rank speculation from people who have little to no knowledge of the actual situation.
This doesn’t address the fact that they are assuming that the tax law that they know is applicable to others of different nationalities or that everyone must be American because they are.

The Thai taxation department is not known for screwing up.
The taxation department swiftly gave guidance that there was no retroactive taxation involved and that the situation pre 2024 was not changed.

The Thai taxation department is also not known for giving detailed explanations in English of the tax law

The tax returns that are involved will not be submitted until after December 31 2024, this gives at least 10 months for tax advice to be formulated

Until this change few people knew anything but the fact that their home country had a Dual Taxation Agreement, vanishing few knew any details.

It is also vital to understand that there are many DTAs everyone is bilaterally negotiated so there are probably few general rules.

A DTA does not stop you being taxed in 2 countries (Thailand and your home country)
A DTA does stop the same income being taxed in both countries
A DTA does not stop you being required to submit tax forms in both countries, the tax authorities are the ones who will decide who must submit a return and who doesn’t need to

It is to be hoped that there maybe a lower limit that is not just the tax free allowance.
It is certainly possible that foreign Thai tax preparation companies are going to have a field day if we are all required to submit tax returns.

I know that wealth management experts are talk closely to them so they can advise their clients, I don’t qualify for direct advice.

[glalt]

If you choose to use the 65,000 baht per month for your extension, do you still need the pain in the A$$ official letter from the bank to verify it? If so, it is still easier to keep the 800,000 baht in the bank.

[sometimewoodworker]

If you choose to use the 65,000 baht per month for your extension, do you still need the pain in the A$$ official letter from the bank to verify it? If so, it is still easier to keep the 800,000 baht in the bank.

The requirements for income verification may require mote than just a 12~13 month statement.

It is unquestionably easier to prove an 800k deposit for a year though immigration may require a 12 month statement as well.

People’s finances will decide which is correct for them

[maaka]

always paid my taxes just never declared them, Its always been a grey area to me..
I would watch my father back in the day, pondering and grumbling over tax paperwork every March for hours..
trying to add things up. I always wondered why he had this coathanger in his wardrobe with all the receipts on it..I just thought he couldnt bring himself to throw them out, or some such thing..when I started working as a teenager he did my tax thingy, and decades later when he died, I couldnt make head nor tail of the tax paperwork so gave it a miss..
When I got my pension and asked in I could go live in Thailand, they said yes. You will get it tax free, but you must tell Thailand..Rodger that..

Of course when I got here, I thought , who the hell do I tell, and came up with, just leave it..
Now you lot have come along with this thread so I dipped my toe into what my situation might be,,
NZ / Thai have DTA so I have just read it..and it states that pensions are to be tax in the home country..
and yet Siam Legal state ' wealthy ' pensioner will be taxed here...

thrown into the mix is the word ' resident '. I have been asked before on this one, by my NZ bank where my pension goes. ( I just ATM everything or bring in the legal amount of cash when flying in...) However Thailand states 180days and you are a resident, and yet NZ says 45 days and you are a resident..My NZ bank keep asking me if I was a resident in order to know what % of tax to charge me.. I just left it as it was 17% I think..and have been going back for 45 days a year to meet the residency thing, and thus may tax and if someone moans at least I have one leg to stand on..

another part of the DTA Dual Tax Agreement refers to ' abodes ' . They are trying to narrow down where you live, where you can be a resident of..and states if you have an abode in both countries then you are a resident / national of your home state...and that one must be taxed by ones home state....

so all very confusing..
no wonder my old Da used to get pissed off when he put in the wrong amount, and screw the papers up

[Laan Yaa Mo]

A very useful thread, thank you all for your well informed observations. This shows the true value of this forum

Well, that's just dilly that you are pleased. I will wait to hear from the Thai Government before I feel well informed. Until then, our observations do not mean much.

[Stantheman]

Maaka
Guess I'm fortunate that our U S. banks do not decide about taxes, if my paltry deposits in my 3 account earn over ten dollars interest, they send me a form in January to use when doing my tax paperwork showing interest earned the prior year. Using that and other forms I get for my retirement income I sit down at my laptop and using a program I do the taxes myself. Takescabout 30 minutes, then I electronically file and done.

[Whistler]

A very useful thread, thank you all for your well informed observations. This shows the true value of this forum

Well, that's just dilly that you are pleased. I will wait to hear from the Thai Government before I feel well informed. Until then, our observations do not mean much.

Quite a few on here made intelligent comments about an ill defined tax change, but you dismiss their input. Your stalking is unbecoming

[Laan Yaa Mo]

A very useful thread, thank you all for your well informed observations. This shows the true value of this forum

Well, that's just dilly that you are pleased. I will wait to hear from the Thai Government before I feel well informed. Until then, our observations do not mean much.

Quite a few on here made intelligent comments about an ill defined tax change, but you dismiss their input. Your stalking is unbecoming

Yes, they did; however, we are all just whistling Dixie until the Thai government passes on their decision to us. Your Sermon from the Mount is hasty and unbecoming.

[jackspratt]

Quite a few on here made intelligent comments about an ill defined tax change, but you dismiss their input. Your stalking is unbecoming

Comments and observations on UM, however well-intentioned or intelligent, haven't clarified anything to this point.

Hopefully, the required clarity - from the Thai Government - will be forthcoming in due course.

That's what I'm waiting for.

[Bandung_Dero]

If you choose to use the 65,000 baht per month for your extension, do you still need the pain in the A$$ official letter from the bank to verify it? If so, it is still easier to keep the 800,000 baht in the bank.

Not a pain but yes you do along with the 12 month statement. = 300 Baht and takes about 30 mins. in KBank across the road.
800K in the bank is still not going to isolate one from the mix. You still have to bring in living expenses which will be under scrutiny. OK, use an ATM then the effin IO's are going to grill you on how you support yourself.

IMHO, the whole thing is still a "cluster fook".

[Whistler]

A very useful thread, thank you all for your well informed observations. This shows the true value of this forum

Well, that's just dilly that you are pleased. I will wait to hear from the Thai Government before I feel well informed. Until then, our observations do not mean much.

Quite a few on here made intelligent comments about an ill defined tax change, but you dismiss their input. Your stalking is unbecoming

Yes, they did; however, we are all just whistling Dixie until the Thai government passes on their decision to us. Your Sermon from the Mount is hasty and unbecoming.

You are one sick puppy.