Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[jackspratt]

I am a "root cause" adherent from many work-related incident/accident investigations.

Your adherence to root causes doesn't help the millions starving in Gaza.

But if you want to look at root causes, isn't that how we got to where we are now, ie the long term Israeli suppression of the Palestinians and their reasonable aspirations to have their own homeland?

[Udon Map]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... e-genocide

More "objective" declarations from Mr. Fakhri, the Lebanese U.N. staffer who believes that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land.

... millions, including many children, are being deliberately starved

By your use of "deliberately" do I gather correctly that you believe that starving children is one of the goals of the Israeli military action in Gaza? So the Israeli war cabinet sat in a meeting and said something along the lines of, "Let's use Hamas' October 6th invasion as an excuse to starve Palestinian children?

[Udon Map]

But if you want to look at root causes, isn't that how we got to where we are now, ie the long term Israeli suppression of the Palestinians and their reasonable aspirations to have their own homeland?

Sure, let's take a look at root causes. If the Palestinians had accepted a two state solution, peaceful coexistence alongside Israel, any of the numerous times that it's been offered over the decades, none of this would have happened. The problem is that the leaders of the Palestinians aren't really interested in having their own country, and they sure aren't interested in the welfare of the Palestinian people. They're interested in eliminating all traces of Jews and Judaism. Israel just happens to be a very visible symbol of the continued existence of Jews.

[Doodoo]

Root Causes . The people involved have to

One agree on what the issue(s) are to begin with

Two collect the data involved

Three Determine possible causal factors

Four Identify the Root Cause

Five Recommend and implement solutions

This conflict hasnt got past step one nor will it ever

[jackspratt]

More "objective" declarations from Mr. Fakhri, the Lebanese U.N. staffer who believes that Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land.

If you read the article, the two passages I quote are (deliberately) not Fakhri's words. In fact, the second quote is from Amnesty International.

[tamada]

I am a "root cause" adherent from many work-related incident/accident investigations.

Your adherence to root causes doesn't help the millions starving in Gaza.

But if you want to look at root causes, isn't that how we got to where we are now, ie the long term Israeli suppression of the Palestinians and their reasonable aspirations to have their own homeland?

No. No it isn't. Long, long before 1948, they were itinerants that no other middle-eastern country wanted. Squatters without aspiration to statehood. Nomads that weren't interested in flags.

As for their 'reasonable aspirations', maybe check with the friends and families of the 4688 victims of Muslim-extremist inspired terrorism committed Inside Israel since 1948 on what's reasonable.

[jackspratt]

... millions, including many children, are being deliberately starved

By your use of "deliberately" do I gather correctly that you believe that starving children is one of the goals of the Israeli military action in Gaza? So the Israeli war cabinet sat in a meeting and said something along the lines of, "Let's use Hamas' October 6th invasion as an excuse to starve Palestinian children?

I said "...millions, including children......". I have no idea what happens inside the confines of the War Cabinet, but whatever their decisions, the results are there for the world to see. How can refusing to allow food convoys be anything but deliberate?

[tamada]

Root Causes . The people involved have to

One agree on what the issue(s) are to begin with

Two collect the data involved

Three Determine possible causal factors

Four Identify the Root Cause

Five Recommend and implement solutions

This conflict hasnt got past step one nor will it ever

Yes, and since neither Hamas nor Hezbollah will ever agree on the right for Jews to live and Israel to exist, ne'er the twain shall meet.

BTW, the data has already been collected and 'causal factors' identified and as such the root cause of this conflict has already been determined and agreed by ALL the 'reasonable' parties involved. The unreasonable ones are those that refuse to agree. They're easy to identify. They're the ones blinded by their hatred, hiding behind children and in hospitals, building rockets and firing them.

[Udon Map]

... millions, including many children, are being deliberately starved

By your use of "deliberately" do I gather correctly that you believe that starving children is one of the goals of the Israeli military action in Gaza? So the Israeli war cabinet sat in a meeting and said something along the lines of, "Let's use Hamas' October 6th invasion as an excuse to starve Palestinian children?

I said "...millions, including children......". I have no idea what happens inside the confines of the War Cabinet, but whatever their decisions, the results are there for the world to see. How can refusing to allow food convoys be anything but deliberate?

Well, if we're going to quibble about quotes, you have omitted your use of the word "many" in the original quote.

"Deliberate" implies intent. So the question remains, -- do you think that Israel attacked Hamas with the intent of starving children?

Interesting that you think the solution is for Israel to stop fighting, rather than Hamas to stop attacking civilians in Israel and stop terrorizing its own Palestinian people. Some might argue that you have it backwards.

[Doodoo]

Tam
"BTW, the data has already been collected and 'causal factors' identified and as such the root cause of this conflict has already been determined and agreed by ALL the 'reasonable' parties involved. The unreasonable ones are those that refuse to agree. They're easy to identify. They're the ones blinded by their hatred, hiding behind children and in hospitals, building rockets and firing them."
So, they havent agree.
Your answer doesnt make sense ""They ALL agree except those that dont."

[tamada]

Tam
"BTW, the data has already been collected and 'causal factors' identified and as such the root cause of this conflict has already been determined and agreed by ALL the 'reasonable' parties involved. The unreasonable ones are those that refuse to agree. They're easy to identify. They're the ones blinded by their hatred, hiding behind children and in hospitals, building rockets and firing them."
So, they havent agree.
Your answer doesnt make sense ""They ALL agree except those that dont."

I will try again. "...the root cause of this conflict has already been determined and agreed by ALL the 'reasonable' parties involved."

For clarity, all the reasonable parties are those that over many decades, have offered solutions.

For further clarity, the unreasonable parties are those that refuse any and all forms of rapprochement that doesn't involve the annihilation of the Jews and the destruction of Israel.

Got it?

[Udon Map]

Your answer doesnt make sense ""They ALL agree except those that dont."

I read his answer to say that the reasonable parties all agreed. The ones who didn't agree are "the ones blinded by their hatred, hiding behind children and in hospitals, building rockets and firing them." Did you read it differently, Doodoo?

[tamada]

Perhaps this is relevant, -- Mr. Fakhri is Lebanese, and believes that Israel occupies land that rightfully belongs to the Palestinian people. Yeah, completely unbiased.

Perhaps - or perhaps it is one of several red herrings in your response, which doesn't address the gist of the article ie why are children starving in Gaza.

Ah yes, the gist of things...

Hot off the press... there's a short, intense, Arabic-language video, going the rounds on social media at this very moment, that allegedly shows two dead children in body bags with the suggestion that they were victims of a very recent IDF attack on Rafah. The Arabic voiceover and wording translates as "the IDF want to kill all Palestinian children."

Images of a bull being led by the ring in its nose springs to mind.

[jackspratt]

Interesting that you think the solution is for Israel to stop fighting, rather than Hamas to stop attacking civilians in Israel and stop terrorizing its own Palestinian people. Some might argue that you have it backwards.

Others might argue, correctly, that I have never said those things, nor even suggested them.

Please don't put words in my mouth.

[jackspratt]

Hot off the press... there's a short, intense, Arabic-language video, going the rounds on social media at this very moment, that allegedly shows two dead children in body bags with the suggestion that they were victims of a very recent IDF attack on Rafah. The Arabic voiceover and wording translates as "the IDF want to kill all Palestinian children."

Yet another red herring.

ps save your projections.

[tamada]

Hot off the press... there's a short, intense, Arabic-language video, going the rounds on social media at this very moment, that allegedly shows two dead children in body bags with the suggestion that they were victims of a very recent IDF attack on Rafah. The Arabic voiceover and wording translates as "the IDF want to kill all Palestinian children."

Yet another red herring.

ps save your projections.

And what sort of aquatic life are you avidly scouring your newsfeeds for and excitedly posting the links to here? Haddock? Pollock? Mullet?

[tamada]

So many (red) herrings, so little time.

[Doodoo]

Got it?"

So there is no agreement amongst the parties regarding the issues once identified. If there is then THEY have to identify the issues.
Therefore, you cannot use the Root Cause process

[tamada]

Got it?"

So there is no agreement amongst the parties regarding the issues once identified. If there is then THEY have to identify the issues.
Therefore, you cannot use the Root Cause process

'Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence'
~Reinhold Messner~

[Doodoo]

“Don't waste your words on people who deserve your silence. Sometimes the most powerful thing you can say is nothing.”
― Mandy Hale