TAX on Income from Abroad

[newtovillagelife]

STWW

Just a thought

Lets say one moves / transfers in enough money in this year 2024, for ones living for next five years and then retires to Thailand on 02 Jan 2025, living comfortably in 2025, 2026, 2027, 2038 and 2029, without having to pay Tax on what he moved into Thailand in 2024.

Then when the pot is getting a bit low in late 2029, he moves to a neighboring country and lives in that neighboring country from 01 Jan to 31 July 2030. Therefore he no longer resides in Thailand for 180 Days during the Year 2030, so he is no longer a Thai Tax Resident as he only ends up staying in Thailand in 2030 for 152 Days. Can he then drag in another 5 years worth of income from outside of Thailand in say September 2030 without being subject to Tax on the second 5 years bundle.

I think you have found the loophole. Of course one has to have the funds available to do this.

He simply breaks the cycle every 5 years and has a longer external holiday outside of Thailand

pipoz4444

[tamada]

Thin end of the wedge.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 ... -trillion/

[Whistler]

Not the slightest bit surprising. I predicted this on Covid thread years ago. Governments would be forced to go to market to pay for post Covid-19 costs and revenue loss. Interest rates to rise around the world as governments compete for capital with commerce.

[noosard]

Don't governments compete for capital with commerce all the time no matter what the interest rates are ?

[David Chop]

Don't governments compete for capital with commerce all the time no matter what the interest rates are ?

Yes.

Predicting governments will have to go to the private sector to fund their programs is like predicting sunrise in the east.

[anefarious1]

Back on topic...

Probably the single best action expat residents could do to prepare for this controversial tax issue is to segregate home country bank accounts in such a way as to clearly show that monies sent to Thailand were taken from savings ie. funds earned prior to Jan 1st, 2024. A separate account, or accounts, would be for earned income going forward and those funds should remain in your home country.

Do this and there would be no need to even self-report a tax liability (which is how the tax system works in Thailand).

This approach is smarter, more realistic and a much more convenient strategy compared to leaving every 4 years or by whatever frequency especially if you are retired and have family here.

Of course, if you live in Udon you probably aren't so well-to-do so segregating enough funds may only work for a few years if at all.

[Stantheman]

Back on topic...

Probably the single best action expat residents could do to prepare for this controversial tax issue is to segregate home country bank accounts in such a way as to clearly show that monies sent to Thailand were taken from savings ie. funds earned prior to Jan 1st, 2024. A separate account, or accounts, would be for earned income going forward and those funds should remain in your home country.

Do this and there would be no need to even self-report a tax liability (which is how the tax system works in Thailand).

This approach is smarter, more realistic and a much more convenient strategy compared to leaving every 4 years or by whatever frequency especially if you are retired and have family here.

Of course, if you live in Udon you probably aren't so well-to-do so segregating enough funds may only work for a few years if at all.

First how will you replenish this separate account and then prove replenishment was not from earned income, second the Thai bank will be reporting on the amount received so self reporting is out the window.

[anefarious1]

Back on topic...

Probably the single best action expat residents could do to prepare for this controversial tax issue is to segregate home country bank accounts in such a way as to clearly show that monies sent to Thailand were taken from savings ie. funds earned prior to Jan 1st, 2024. A separate account, or accounts, would be for earned income going forward and those funds should remain in your home country.

Do this and there would be no need to even self-report a tax liability (which is how the tax system works in Thailand).

This approach is smarter, more realistic and a much more convenient strategy compared to leaving every 4 years or by whatever frequency especially if you are retired and have family here.

Of course, if you live in Udon you probably aren't so well-to-do so segregating enough funds may only work for a few years if at all.

First how will you replenish this separate account and then prove replenishment was not from earned income, second the Thai bank will be reporting on the amount received so self reporting is out the window.

1. I cannot explain it to you any more clearly. I suspect you will soon come to understand this concept and it may be of great benefit to you. I would only add that commingled funds could allow the revenue department an opportunity to target your funds for taxation. Right now that is the greyist area in the law. Therefore, separate accounts and strict use of them makes a lot of sense.

2. Thai banks can report whatever they want, but if there is no tax liability...well, there is no tax liability. PwC knows a bit about Thai revenue collection and they say, "Thailand applies a self-assessment system, which means that taxpayers shall be required to declare their tax liabilities in the prescribed tax returns and pay the tax due at the time of filing."

Your decisions, your transactions, your funding needs and now I would add your wherewithal to preemptively segregate funds could determine whether you are required to report income in Thailand going forward.

[sometimewoodworker]

That is a rather interesting idea.

What is interesting to me would be - what is your money doing while it is sitting idle in a Thailand bank for that 5 year period?

If it is earning interest, and as it is obviously a big lump, it is taxable.

And what rate of interest is it earning - could it be earning far more offshore?

Rinse and repeat.

An awful lot of speculation, perhaps futile planning, and twisted knickers in the meantime.

As much as I respect your attention to detail on immigration, the last person I would be going to for tax advice is a random guy on the internet.

It is not my money.

My money in Thailand is earning interest

Yes indeed interest on a Thai deposit is taxable

Yes it is extremely likely that you can earn more interest in an offshore account. However it is extremely unlikely that it can earn enough to make the fact that it IS going to be taxed and the interest IS going to be taxed a positive sum exercise, it certainly could but any investment that is earning that much is going to be high risk.

I do not give tax advice, I am not knowledgeable enough to do it and you are not paying me enough for me to gain that knowledge.

I can tell you some of the questions you need to ask an advisor.
I can tell you of actions that are going to reduce your liability.
I can tell you of actions that have reduced my liability.

You need to decide whether you are likely to have a tax liability.
Then you have to decide if it’s worth paying for advice.
You have to decide if you think the Thai tax department is going to require a declaration.
You have to decide what you will do then.

[pipoz4444]

WADRTS

I think some responses are underestimating the knowledge of others, who comment on or respond to questions, on this forum, unless of course you know that individuals background intimately.

Yes it may be a hot topic for discussion, but one doesn't have to do out of his way to denigrate the views or advice of others, simply because they disagree with them.

Not all Expats or Retiree's are Bums sitting around on barstools drinking P..ss all day and talking BS. Some have actually come from knowledgeable backgrounds, have experience in and or are well versed in the international financial banking and tax system. You will never know.

For those who believe you can't avoid paying tax, you are incorrect. Yes incorrect. It depends on your personal circumstances, your structure of assets, your placement of them and importantly who you know and who you can can trust, because there are ways, even in this day and age of financial regulations to avoid the "T".




Two minutes of brilliance "If anyone in this country doesn't minimize their tax, they want their head read, because as a government, you are not spending it that well, that we should be donating extra?? . How true and how much do all Governments around the world WASTE, with no accountability for that waste?

pipoz4444

[jackspratt]

Not all Expats or Retiree's are Bums sitting around on barstools drinking P..ss all day and talking BS. Some have actually come from knowledgeable backgrounds, have experience in and or are well versed in the international financial banking and tax system. You will never know.

Totally agree, pipo.

In fact, one guy I know quite well here in Ban Dung spent the last 18 years of his professional career as a consultant at various senior levels, in the tax departments of a few different Big 4 accounting firms, in various Asia/Pacific countries.

In that time, he tells me, he picked up a fair bit of knowledge about how tax systems and laws work, both nationally, and internationally.

He is the guy I am listening to at the moment, rather than pundits on UM Forum.

[WimH]

Maybe this helps?
As of January 1st, 2024, the Revenue Department has begun enforcing new tax laws for both foreign residents and locals who receive income within Thailand :
https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-law ... -overview/

[the-monk]

Thanks. Quite interesting.

[newtovillagelife]

Not all Expats or Retiree's are Bums sitting around on barstools drinking P..ss all day and talking BS. Some have actually come from knowledgeable backgrounds, have experience in and or are well versed in the international financial banking and tax system. You will never know.

Totally agree, pipo.

In fact, one guy I know quite well here in Ban Dung spent the last 18 years of his professional career as a consultant at various senior levels, in the tax departments of a few different Big 4 accounting firms, in various Asia/Pacific countries.

In that time, he tells me, he picked up a fair bit of knowledge about how tax systems and laws work, both nationally, and internationally.

He is the guy I am listening to at the moment, rather than pundits on UM Forum.

So are you going to kindly, share some of his insights??

[BillaRickaDickay]

Advice so far? Just Waffle from people who dont Know, but they know a man who does.

[sometimewoodworker]

There are reasons for tax advisers to keep in their jobs. The main ones for those advising foreign clients in Thailand are that virtually everyone has different actions to take to minimise their tax requirements. This is due to the fact of the 61+ DTAs and individual circumstances, if the advisor is not, in general, saving the clients more tax than he/she is being paid in fees they are not going to stay in business long.

There are some actions that the majority can take will universally reduce tax liability or simplify reporting.
But even with those actions there will be some who will not benefit, it may even increase tax burden.
Some of those had to have been taken in 2023.


There is a big difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion.
Quite a few are recommending and suggesting ways for tax evasion, I don’t and won’t.

[noosard]

I would pay less tax here than Australia
Will talk to my advisor

[Khun Paul]

I agree Noosard, sadly Taxed at Source from a Police Pension means that I am unable to NOT pay UK tax otherwise I would be having an offshore banking account long time ago, but considering the latest, perhaps pension TAXED in home country may be a bonus under the dual tax agreements currently in force and recognised.

[jackspratt]

So are you going to kindly, share some of his insights??

viewtopic.php?p=685304#p685304

[sometimewoodworker]

I agree Noosard, sadly Taxed at Source from a Police Pension means that I am unable to NOT pay UK tax otherwise I would be having an offshore banking account long time ago, but considering the latest, perhaps pension TAXED in home country may be a bonus under the dual tax agreements currently in force and recognised.

There is one wrinkle with the U.K. DTA and that is that you get credit for tax paid on taxed income.
However if you have income that has not been taxed it is still taxable
You may have paid more U.K. tax on the income than the Thai tax assessed.
Regrettably you can not get a credit that covers the untaxed income.