Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Udon Map]

Here are some interesting opinions on all sides from a diverse collection of academics and diplomats. The question asked by Foreign Affairs magazine was: In the Wake of the War in Gaza, Is the Two-State Solution Still Viable?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ask-the- ... ill-viable

[tamada]

It appears that we have (at least) two adherents who think that repeatedly shouting "Please, just make it stop!" as a solution to the current conflagration. Some may have a stubborn lack of perspicacity while others seem overly fascinated with fish.

In the interests of reasonable debate and to enlighten those who maybe see things in a different and possibly more pragmatic light, what is supposed to happen here to just make it stop? Really stop.

Is this a call for just another ceasefire dressed up as it already is in the intangibles of humanity and decency, replete with pictures of somebody else's dead children? A can kicked down the road only as far as the next anniversary of something bad. Or does it have something more honest, open, pithy and worthwhile to offer? Something that doesn't simply rely on the repeated, one-sided shriek of genocide? The big picture if you will.

Other than what has been implied to be a simple, decades long lack of concord with a double-scoop of whataboutery, or why root cause analysis isn't possible, what is their definition of the root cause of this, Israels' ninth conflict since being founded?

[Khun Paul]

No matter what reports, news etc you read and removing emotions from the mix, when ISRAEL left Palestine not one single Jew and moved back into what is now ISRAEL< IT WAS KNOWN THEN AND has not changed one IOTA that the existence of JEWS IN TH WORLD WILL NOT BE TOLERATED BY many ARABS OF SOME ARABIAN COUNTRIES and when Hamas became the so-called government of GAZA, and it was then written into its aims , then no matter what is said then the Jewish nation was put on notice that its existence will not be tolerated. OTHER FACTS ISRAEL GENERALLY HAS NOT DELIBERATELY INITIATED ANY INDESCRIMATE Attack on PALESTINE normally only retaliated as with this current situation we forget the then ceasefire was BROKEN by the firing of mulitple rockets and the killing and seizing of many ISRAELIS >

Expecting Hasmas to withdraw the edict that all Jews worldwide are to be eliminated will never happen , asking them not to atack unless proved will also never happen so what are the options. Muslims sadly will hi-jack the QUORAN TO justify their actions and no-one can tell them otherwise, not even other MUSLIMS> that is the major problem.

[rick]

Well, Israel's true intentions are becoming clearer. Starve the Palestinians for a month, then let in a couple of aid trucks and shoot at the crowds who turn up. Israel's excuse - 'Our soldiers felt threatened'. Yeah, those Palestinian's were heavily armed, sacks, donkey carts; needed tanks to win that battle.

The war crimes are just building up. And public opinion in the west is also going against Israel. In the UK, George Galloway elected at the Rochdale byelection. Conservatives and Labour couldn't even scrape up 20% of the vote between them.

[tamada]

Since Hamas are indistinguishable from those looting the food trucks, the IDF firing in the air was a good start. It's of no surprise and little consequence that some of the looters who are adherents to the religion of martyrdom ignored those warnings.

[Udon Map]

Well, Israel's true intentions are becoming clearer.

Yeah, I agree. Israel's "true" intention: Get Hamas to attack, kill ~1,200 of its citizens and take a couple of hundred more hostage. Then use that as an excuse to retaliate. The decades of rocket attacks on civilians, the terror attacks on, and murders of, civilians, -- none of that had anything to do with it.

Rick, I don't know if you're American, British, etc. How long do you think that your country would tolerate daily rocket attacks from a terrorist group, or that terrorist group driving cars into groups of people waiting for a bus???

[jackspratt]

Here are some interesting opinions on all sides from a diverse collection of academics and diplomats. The question asked by Foreign Affairs magazine was: In the Wake of the War in Gaza, Is the Two-State Solution Still Viable?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ask-the- ... ill-viable

I have only skimmed over reading this, but my 2 takeaways from the opinions espressed are:

1. the 2 state solution is the only realistic way to bring to a conclusion this ongoing and seemingly intractable problem

2. the major roadblock to such a solution, at this time, lays in Tel Aviv.

It seems to me that Netanyahu is an equally large negative as Hamas or Abbas, in terms of reaching a solution. There is also the issue of how to work around the malign influence of the Iranian mullahs.

[jackspratt]

It appears that we have (at least) two adherents who think that repeatedly shouting "Please, just make it stop!" as a solution to the current conflagration. Some may have a stubborn lack of perspicacity while others seem overly fascinated with fish.

In the interests of reasonable debate and to enlighten those who maybe see things in a different and possibly more pragmatic light, what is supposed to happen here to just make it stop? Really stop.

Is this a call for just another ceasefire dressed up as it already is in the intangibles of humanity and decency, replete with pictures of somebody else's dead children? A can kicked down the road only as far as the next anniversary of something bad. Or does it have something more honest, open, pithy and worthwhile to offer? Something that doesn't simply rely on the repeated, one-sided shriek of genocide? The big picture if you will.

Other than what has been implied to be a simple, decades long lack of concord with a double-scoop of whataboutery, or why root cause analysis isn't possible, what is their definition of the root cause of this, Israels' ninth conflict since being founded?

You seem to have plenty to say, dressed in flowery prose, without really saying anything.

[tamada]

You seem to have plenty to say, dressed in flowery prose, without really saying anything.

Oh dear...out of red herrings are we?

[tamada]

Here are some interesting opinions on all sides from a diverse collection of academics and diplomats. The question asked by Foreign Affairs magazine was: In the Wake of the War in Gaza, Is the Two-State Solution Still Viable?

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/ask-the- ... ill-viable

I have only skimmed over reading this, but my 2 takeaways from the opinions espressed are:

1. the 2 state solution is the only realistic way to bring to a conclusion this ongoing and seemingly intractable problem

2. the major roadblock to such a solution, at this time, lays in Tel Aviv.

It seems to me that Netanyahu is an equally large negative as Hamas or Abbas, in terms of reaching a solution. There is also the issue of how to work around the malign influence of the Iranian mullahs.

A proper bloomin' Einstein, that's what you are.

Netanyahu's not a nice person at all. He's a manipulative and egocentric bully. But since when has that been in any way equal in magnitude to the vile and despicable hatred, intolerance and inhumanity of the other three entities that you mentioned?

[Udon Map]

2. the major roadblock to such a solution, at this time, lays in Tel Aviv.

It seems to me that Netanyahu is an equally large negative as Hamas or Abbas, in terms of reaching a solution.

If "Netanyahu is an equally large negative as Hamas or Abbas, in terms of reaching a solution", how do you figure that Israel is "the major roadblock"? That's the problem. Hamas is much better at the PR part of this than Israel, and you seem to have bought right into it. They're equal impediments to reaching a solution, but Israel is the major roadblock? To state the obvious, if they're equal, then neither is the major one, they're equal.

But let me pose the same question to you that I asked Rick:

How long do you think that your country would tolerate daily rocket attacks from a terrorist group, or that terrorist group driving cars into groups of people waiting for a bus???

[Khun Paul]

This is a problem that will NEVER be acceptable 100% to either side, more so when the religious thoughts are inserted into the mix. Notwithstanding some Arab countries agreeing to the fact that Jews can and do exist, one of the factions involved has stated that JEWS ARE NOT i their words acceptable to continue to breath .

So until that ideology is dealt with NO PEACE seems to be on the cards, a ceasefire maybe but then this started because one side broke the ceasefire and it was NOT THE JEWS ¬¬¬¬¬!!!!!!!

[Udon Map]

Excerpts from press release from the U.N. Office of the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict:

Following visit to Israel and the occupied West Bank, UN Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Sexual Violence in Conflict, Ms. Pramila Patten, finds sexual violence occurred on 7 October against hostages and calls for a fully-fledged investigation

Based on the information it gathered, the mission team found clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment has been committed against hostages and has reasonable grounds to believe that such violence may be ongoing against those still held in captivity. In line with a survivor/victim-centered approach, findings are conveyed in generic terms and details are not revealed.

In the context of the coordinated attack by Hamas and other armed groups against civilian and military targets throughout the Gaza periphery, the mission team found that there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred in multiple locations during the 7 October attacks, including rape and gang-rape in at least three locations, namely: the Nova music festival site and its surroundings, Road 232, and Kibbutz Re’im. In most of these incidents, victims first subjected to rape were then killed, and at least two incidents relate to the rape of women’s corpses.

The mission team also found a pattern of victims, mostly women, found fully or partially naked, bound, and shot across multiple locations. Although circumstantial, such a pattern may be indicative of some forms of sexual violence, including sexualized torture, cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment.

And what did the Hamas leaders say? Such actions are contrary to the teachings of Islam and they did not occur.

Those valiant Hamas freedom fighters, just working diligently to end Israel's cruel oppression of the Palestinian people.

[tamada]

Shouting about sexual violence last year is akin to complaining that the toast is burnt when the kitchen's on fire. Nobody's about to start any fully-fledged anything while Hamas still hides in plain sight, firing their missiles.

[papafarang]

So the conflict began in 1947/48. Up to that point there was no conflict. So the Arab. / Jewish issues started back then when for some reason I can't fathom the UN decided to start the middle east conflicts. Sad to see some try to change the narrative. The issue is not Jews and Muslim , if it was the Jews would be facing Muslims from every country around the world declaring war on them. It's about Israel and Palestine and the occupation . accusations about a dead guy might have sexually assaulted someone is sad, when the UN has reported that babies have now died of starvation. Ask a holocaust survivor what it's like to die of starvation.

[Udon Map]

Here's the key to why there's no end in sight to this war:

US officials have said that they are skeptical that Hamas actually wants a deal.

Hamas has no qualms about putting the Palestinian people at risk to achieve its goal, the elimination of the Jewish people. And since Hamas is winning the public relations war, it has no incentive to stop.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/03/05/ ... ks-update/

[tamada]

It seems that not all UN organizations sing from the same hymn sheet.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... ort-claims

[Udon Map]

It seems that not all UN organizations sing from the same hymn sheet.

UNRWA.

[jackspratt]

This is the report rick refers to above.

https://www.channel4.com/news/israels-e ... s-examined

It is pretty clear the UN has not substantiated the claims of UNRWA involvement in the October 7 massacre, otherwise there would be no need for the investigation currently underway by the UN Office of Internal Oversight Services (OIOS), the top UN investigatory agency.

Also a very interesting report here https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east ... main-murky

It seems the UN OIOS is still waiting for the Israeli evidence to support its claim that the 12 UNRWA staff were participants in the October 7 massacre.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ber-attack

Is this going to turn out the same way as the apparently bogus al-Shifa "Command Centre" claim?

Of course, it suits Israel's purposes to drag this out, in the hope countries will continue to withhold aid promised to UNRWA.

[Udon Map]

Of course, it suits Israel's purposes to drag this out, in the hope countries will continue to withhold aid promised to UNRWA.

Hamas could stop any dragging-it-out by simply agreeing to a ceasefire and releasing the hostages.

President Biden:

It's in the hands of Hamas right now. The Israelis have been cooperating.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/politi ... -deal.html



NYTimes quoting Vice President Harris:

Ms. Harris reiterated the United States’ support for Israel’s right to defend itself against the ongoing threat from Hamas, which she said had no regard for innocent life in Israel or in Gaza. Ms. Harris called Hamas a “brutal terrorist organization” that poses a threat to Israel and should be eliminated.

“Hamas claims it wants a cease-fire,” she said. “Well, there is a deal on the table.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/03/worl ... -fire.html



Hamas has the upper hand in world opinion right now and they know it. They are, however, in danger of overplaying their hand.