Baltimore Bridge collapse

[Khun Paul]

It was as they say an accident waiting to happen , as the Gross tonnage went up, not one entity did a damn thing to up the safety and protection of the base structures/ I was surpised that TUGS used to move from the berth were not in attendance before clearing this structure .
Hopefully lessons will be leant across the USA to check and upgrade safety involving bridges across port entrances

[Khun Paul]

The ore this investigation uncovers the more the general malaise affecting the maintenance and lack of updating safety procedures regarding boats, tonnage and protection of this infrastructure shows up.
While people will attempt to politicise it the simple fact is errors in management, safety protocols and general all round incompetence are staring most in their collective faces.
A disaster involving deaths of innocents allowed by mis-administration . A stain on all those involved in this harbour
/ port .

[jackson]

PAUL. Wake me up when stop complaining. Can you dream up something positive to say now and again. Honestly over a long long time same know it all negative cr.p. what's to matter with you

[Whistler]

PAUL. Wake me up when stop complaining. Can you dream up something positive to say now and again. Honestly over a long long time same know it all negative cr.p. what's to matter with you

Spot on.

If every accident was avoidable, we would be wrapped in cotton wool, have 100% vision of the future with all of its permutations, and the world would grind to a halt. There are hundreds of major ports, thousands of bridges, hundreds of thousands of ships, but accidents are quite rare.

If there were 50 of these a year big problem, but from what I can observe, the last one was on the Derwent River 5/1/1995. 28 Years! How many plane crashes, motorbike accidents, fatal car crashes or people drowning at a patrolled beach have happened over that time span.

This was a rare accident, not a systematic regulatory failure

[Khun Paul]

PAUL. Wake me up when stop complaining. Can you dream up something positive to say now and again. Honestly over a long long time same know it all negative cr.p. what's to matter with you

h dear touched a nerve did I , if you had read the entire story from the beginning to the end , The Captain made a decision to sail despite have had power problems prior to sailing these I assume were known to the port.
He sailed and knowing a probability that there MIGHT be problems took no action to mitigate loss of power ( tugs ) .
The port mis-administration because eve sine the port was built and the bridge built tonnage size had increased exponentially thereby raising the probability of accidents as ou put it. YET nothing was done or even looked at assuming while it works why bother attitude.

I point out valid criticism and you you call it complaining. Well if more people constructively complaining you would probably not have the problem . `.

[Whistler]

Ship sizes have increased since the baltimore bridge was
Built, but it is hyperbole to claim that has grown exponentially. Exponential annual growth multiples by 2 every year, 2,4,16, 32... I won't extrapolate back to 1977 but it would be in the gadzillions.

The ship was under control of a pilot, not the captain. The pilot did indeed call for tugs, but they were too far away to arrive on time.

https://www.thebaltimorebanner.com/comm ... FLQVGWRYE/

I looked for any info about the ships captain experiencing power problems prior to sailing, found nothing. Do you have a source?

[jackspratt]

The ore this investigation uncovers the more the general malaise affecting the maintenance and lack of updating safety procedures regarding boats, tonnage and protection of this infrastructure shows up.

What investigation is this, KP?

.....if you had read the entire story from the beginning to the end , The Captain made a decision to sail despite have had power problems prior to sailing these I assume were known to the port.

What story is this, KP?

Where can we read it, from "beginning to end"?

It sounds alarming.

[tamada]

A ship is under the control of the harbour pilot but remains under the command of its Captain. Subtle but important delineation of responsibility.

[sometimewoodworker]

I looked for any info about the ships captain experiencing power problems prior to sailing, found nothing. Do you have a source?

There were a few problems reported previously, however there were none that would have had an effect on the decision to sail. The captain will have delegated course and speed to the pilots

The duty of the pilot is to direct the navigation of the ship and to conduct it so far as the course and speed of the ship is concerned. He liaises with the VTS, organises the use of tugs and advises on the use of moorings and towing lines.

There are many ships that have reported problems that are fixed or probably fixed prior to sailing, any one of the hundreds/thousands of ships that sail after a fix or with a problem could have a failure, that failure could be a serious problem or an insignificant annoyance

The problem with speculation is that hindsight is 20/20 and it is likely that the fault/s, whatever they turn out to be, just happened at the worst possible time when even 2 experienced harbour pilots were totally unable to prevent the incident.

At the moment the cause of the shutdown of the main engine is unknown & until it is discovered it is pointless to guess

[Khun Paul]

I stand vindicated but some will argue otherwise as is their way o poo poo any sensible conversation that is at variance to their personal thought processes`

What is more concerning a;though most will argue about that asa well being such a contrary lot, that a ship albeit NOT underway but ostensibly drifting managed to get in a situation that is HIT the main supports which caused the collapse. Apparently since it was built there was never an update regarding collision protection at the base apart from the iitia bases put i when the bridge was built .
When you consider all forms of land transportation is checked and updated regularly as we have seen out roads and rail system constantly updated, marine safety updates for infrastructure safety seems to be woefully neglected.despite huge strides in ship design and tonnage and maneuverability

[Udon Map]

I stand vindicated . . .

I didn't see that. Would you point it out, please?

[sometimewoodworker]

Just a FWIW a vessel in the New York shipping channel just suffered a propulsion failure, though since NY requires tugs to accompany vessels and it was very close to another tug wharf a 3rd (possibly 4th) tug was very quickly on scene and moved it to a better location, out of the shipping channel, for repairs to the systems effected.

Baltimore has no such restriction.

[tamada]

There has been a couple of recent incidents, a couple of days apart, where large vessels underway in a constricted port environment in New Orleans, lost propulsion and thus steering, and reportedly required tugs to prevent them alliding with berthed vessels.

Some people with absolutely no clue about anything nautical are having a cow about it online, claiming how another calamitous port closure has been narrowly avoided.

[Khun Paul]

I stand vindicated . . .

I didn't see that. Would you point it out, please?

It is in English perhaps that is why you difficulties

[Doodoo]

So Tam are you saying that if there was another bridge that collapsed that only people with nautical experience know what is going on and should be the only one who can comment?

[Udon Map]

I stand vindicated . . .

I didn't see that. Would you point it out, please?

It is in English perhaps that is why you difficulties

And you wonder why people sometimes think you can be a bit negative.

Anyway, sure, have it your way. Assume that I don't understand English very well. Would you point it out, please?

[jackspratt]

My English is pretty good, KP - certainly better than yours, if your posts on UM are anything to go by.

Have you had time to address my earlier questions from yesterday?

The ore this investigation uncovers the more the general malaise affecting the maintenance and lack of updating safety procedures regarding boats, tonnage and protection of this infrastructure shows up.

What investigation is this, KP?

.....if you had read the entire story from the beginning to the end , The Captain made a decision to sail despite have had power problems prior to sailing these I assume were known to the port.

What story is this, KP?

Where can we read it, from "beginning to end"?

It sounds alarming.

[tamada]

So Tam are you saying that if there was another bridge that collapsed that only people with nautical experience know what is going on and should be the only one who can comment?

No. That's not what I'm saying at all.

[Doodoo]

OK Tam once again what are you saying?

[Khun Paul]

IT was known PRIOR to sailing that this ship had had power problems which although might have believed to be okay still manifested itself into a major power loss at a critical time.
So although a decision might have been made , ZERO efforts were made to mitigate a possible problem. On a small boat, not really an issue but on an Ocean going ~~Container ship of a large tonnage and loss anywhere would be a problem .
I suppose one could say knocking down the bridge wth the loss of life ( less than 10 ) was beneficial for the ship, cargo and crew as opposed to losing power in the middle of the ocean and subsequent loss of ship, cargo and all the crew.

As for my English being criticised by a YANK is no criticism at all !! [Redacted]