TAX on Income from Abroad

[Bandung_Dero]

it's probably the never-ending penchant for IO's to make things up, just because they can.

Or get us to move over to "Miss Dodgy Visa Udon" in their never ending pursuit of a bigger cut of the pie!!

[Bandung_Dero]

and one chap saying he's being asked to show his original Non-O visa from eighteen years ago that's in a long-expired, long-lost passport.

Without looking at my current 9 yo passport I seem to remember all the details from the original non O visa are recorded along with the last extension on the 1st 2 pages of ones new passport??

[tamada]

it's probably the never-ending penchant for IO's to make things up, just because they can.

Or get us to move over to "Miss Dodgy Visa Udon" in their never ending pursuit of a bigger cut of the pie!!

...or peace of mind.

[tamada]

and one chap saying he's being asked to show his original Non-O visa from eighteen years ago that's in a long-expired, long-lost passport.

Without looking at my current 9 yo passport I seem to remember all the details from the original non O visa are recorded along with the last extension on the 1st 2 pages of ones new passport??

I recall that being the case on a Non-O acquired decades ago in KL and subsequently "converted" at Jomtien. No idea what gobbledegook these IO's scribble on people's stamps these days but it's a given no two offices are exactly the same, neither are the paper shufflers in any particular office.

Then again, the chap on the AN forum may have been talking cobblers.

[Stuart52]

72 year Ex Pat British pensioner pays income tax on Pensions in the UK. If I were to pay Thai tax on the same income it would be less than I pay now to the UK inland revenue. Anyone offer clarity on this Bangkok Post article? thinking about using a Tax specialist based in Bangkok to handle my tax return at end of this year (cost 12,000 B) The way I read it I should not have Double Taxation, any thoughts please. Stuart 52
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... come-rules

[sometimewoodworker]

72 year Ex Pat British pensioner pays income tax on Pensions in the UK. If I were to pay Thai tax on the same income it would be less than I pay now to the UK inland revenue. Anyone offer clarity on this Bangkok Post article? thinking about using a Tax specialist based in Bangkok to handle my tax return at end of this year (cost 12,000 B) The way I read it I should not have Double Taxation, any thoughts please. Stuart 52
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... come-rules

You seem to have misunderstood the meaning of a double taxation agreement, along with thinking that the suggested Thai ideas that they can emulate the USA principle of taxing world wide income has a snowballs chance of ever becoming Thai tax law. Should there be any realistic chance of that happening I would guess that the expat population of Thailand will suffer an enormous drop.

For the U.K. DTA, and most others, the principle is that
1) you calculate the tax paid in the U.K.
2) then you calculate the tax due on income brought into Thailand
If 2) is greater than 1) you pay the difference
If 1) is greater than 2) you have no tax to pay in Thailand

However due to the much greater tax free allowance in the U.K. you will probably be due to pay tax on virtually any income brought into Thailand higher than ฿310,000 if single

[anefarious1]

72 year Ex Pat British pensioner pays income tax on Pensions in the UK. If I were to pay Thai tax on the same income it would be less than I pay now to the UK inland revenue. Anyone offer clarity on this Bangkok Post article? thinking about using a Tax specialist based in Bangkok to handle my tax return at end of this year (cost 12,000 B) The way I read it I should not have Double Taxation, any thoughts please. Stuart 52
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... come-rules

You seem to have misunderstood the meaning of a double taxation agreement, along with thinking that the suggested Thai ideas that they can emulate the USA principle of taxing world wide income has a snowballs chance of ever becoming Thai tax law. Should there be any realistic chance of that happening I would guess that the expat population of Thailand will suffer an enormous drop.

For the U.K. DTA, and most others, the principle is that
1) you calculate the tax paid in the U.K.
2) then you calculate the tax due on income brought into Thailand
If 2) is greater than 1) you pay the difference
If 1) is greater than 2) you have no tax to pay in Thailand

However due to the much greater tax free allowance in the U.K. you will probably be due to pay tax on virtually any income brought into Thailand higher than ฿310,000 if single

As it stands today, most countries have laws on the books enabling them to tax non-citizen residents on their worldwide income. How well these laws are enforced around the world is hard to say. In any case, it's certainly not unique to the USA. What you may be referring to is US taxation of their citizens on worldwide income, but that isn't a fair comparison.

Territorial taxation, where only income derived inside a country is subject to tax, is actually less common around the world.

I do hope Thailand stops at only taxing remitted income because indeed they will lose out in the end.

[sometimewoodworker]

As it stands today, most countries have laws on the books enabling them to tax non-citizen residents on their worldwide income. How well these laws are enforced around the world is hard to say. In any case, it's certainly not unique to the USA. What you may be referring to is US taxation of their citizens on worldwide income, but that isn't a fair comparison.

Territorial taxation, where only income derived inside a country is subject to tax, is actually less common around the world.

I do hope Thailand stops at only taxing remitted income because indeed they will lose out in the end.

I only know of one country that has the taxation system of which you speak “ taxation of citizens, and green card holders on worldwide income,” and that is the USA. AFIK that is unique.

You claim that it is the usual case that worldwide income is taxed or liable for tax. Please substantiate your claim. I do not say that your claim is categorically wrong just that it is not true of the taxation system of which I am intimately acquainted. Of course it must be by a country other than the USA or U.K.

I am absolutely sure that the vast majority of tax authorities do not have rules on taxation that are not enforced.

I do not differentiate between income generated within the country and income generated outside the country by residents of that country, the U.K. certainly doesn’t.

[Khun Paul]

If and I say this while sober and a night of thought, IF Foreigners granted a Retirement Visa each and every year are CONSIDERED CITIZENS FOR T AX PURPOSES AS MOST STAY OVER THE 180 DAYS I expect.
Then what will the Thai Government initiate.
Will it BAN the Double Pricing of those establishments funded by Tax-payer money.. Hospitals, Most Civil Establishments, Amphurs etc, where we all know there is a system of double pricing one for Locals ( Taxpayers ostensibly ) and the other for Foreigners ( non taxpayers )
As the law states all those who remain in Thailand over 180 days become TAX RESIDENTS, therefore all Double Pricing payable by TOURISTS ETC should no longer apply to TAX RESIDENTS .

I would like people's thoughts on this conundrum, my accountant is non-committal on this subject but does see the problem for the Thai Government as they actively and overtly sanction the double pricing scenario

[tamada]

A quick Google says only the US and Eritrea taxes non-residents on global income.

There's really nothing to prevent this muppet administration from doing it too. I mean, they think Suvarnabhumi will eclipse Changi, Thailand will host an F1 event and their "War Elephants" will win the World Cup.

[anefarious1]

A quick Google says only the US and Eritrea taxes non-residents on global income.

There's really nothing to prevent this muppet administration from doing it too. I mean, they think Suvarnabhumi will eclipse Changi, Thailand will host an F1 event and their "War Elephants" will win the World Cup.

No idea why this is relevant. Are you a Thai citizen planning on living and working overseas? No, you are not. Thailand is not even floating the idea of taxing like US and Eritrea.

Your concern is taxation of residents' global income, but you are fumbling like Joe Biden — only with a much smaller audience.

[anefarious1]

As it stands today, most countries have laws on the books enabling them to tax non-citizen residents on their worldwide income. How well these laws are enforced around the world is hard to say. In any case, it's certainly not unique to the USA. What you may be referring to is US taxation of their citizens on worldwide income, but that isn't a fair comparison.

Territorial taxation, where only income derived inside a country is subject to tax, is actually less common around the world.

I do hope Thailand stops at only taxing remitted income because indeed they will lose out in the end.

I only know of one country that has the taxation system of which you speak “ taxation of citizens, and green card holders on worldwide income,” and that is the USA. AFIK that is unique.

You claim that it is the usual case that worldwide income is taxed or liable for tax. Please substantiate your claim. I do not say that your claim is categorically wrong just that it is not true of the taxation system of which I am intimately acquainted. Of course it must be by a country other than the USA or U.K.

I am absolutely sure that the vast majority of tax authorities do not have rules on taxation that are not enforced.

I do not differentiate between income generated within the country and income generated outside the country by residents of that country, the U.K. certainly doesn’t.

Your final sentence contradicts everything you wrote prior to it.

You "do not differentiate between income generated within the country and income generated outside the country by residents". Basically neither do most tax departments around the world! Hence residents can be taxed where ever the income is generated. The key factor is usually being present for 183 days that determines a tax residency and thus possible taxation of worldwide income.

The Director General, Kulaya Tantitemit, of the Thai Revenue Department recently talked up adopting this principle of taxing worldwide income to bring Thailand in line with international practice. She is right.

Credible substantiation is here:

https://assets.ey.com/content/dam/ey-si ... 024-v1.pdf

A summary of international taxation around the world is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_taxation

Refer to the middle column titled "taxes foreign income of residents" in the section labeled Individuals.

And you are absolutely sure that tax rules around the world are enforced? I strongly disagree here as well. Most countries do not have the means to begin to assess individuals' worldwide income let alone collect taxes on it and instead rely on self-reporting which is miniscule.

[tamada]

A quick Google says only the US and Eritrea taxes non-residents on global income.

There's really nothing to prevent this muppet administration from doing it too. I mean, they think Suvarnabhumi will eclipse Changi, Thailand will host an F1 event and their "War Elephants" will win the World Cup.

No idea why this is relevant. Are you a Thai citizen planning on living and working overseas? No, you are not. Thailand is not even floating the idea of taxing like US and Eritrea.

Your concern is taxation of residents' global income, but you are fumbling like Joe Biden — only with a much smaller audience.

What's your problem?

You brought up global income taxation, by claiming

As it stands today, most countries have laws on the books enabling them to tax non-citizen residents on their worldwide income.

For which you have been proven wrong.

Maybe, like Joe, you forgot what you said?

[sometimewoodworker]

No idea why this is relevant. Are you a Thai citizen planning on living and working overseas? No, you are not. Thailand is not even floating the idea of taxing like US and Eritrea.

You clearly can’t, or don’t, bother to read information that is easily available and is the concern of @stuart52

From one source

The Revenue Department is studying the feasibility of amending the Revenue Code to align with the principle of worldwide income.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... come-rules. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

[anefarious1]

No idea why this is relevant. Are you a Thai citizen planning on living and working overseas? No, you are not. Thailand is not even floating the idea of taxing like US and Eritrea.

You clearly can’t, or don’t, bother to read information that is easily available and is the concern of @stuart52

From one source

The Revenue Department is studying the feasibility of amending the Revenue Code to align with the principle of worldwide income.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/ge ... come-rules. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

I do not know what to say. Maybe stick to wood working?

The US and Eritrea are unique in that they tax THEIR CITIZENS on WORLDWIDE INCOME regardless of their location. Such a policy is not being considered by Thailand. Even if it was, it wouldn't be relevant to expats residing in Thailand. There can be no reason to bring up these 2 countries when dozens upon dozens of other countries tax worldwide income of non-citizen residents which is what Thailand IS actually considering.

I can't explain this stuff to you hard headed guys anymore. I give up!

[tamada]

^ Excellent! Much appreciated.

[anefarious1]

Before I leave... do you actually believe Thailand is considering becoming only the 3rd country behind the US and Eritrea to tax worldwide income? Hoping for one last good laugh.

[tamada]

It's not a matter of who believes what. The source of the information where the RD is reported to be looking at the feasibility of taxing anyone staying in Thailand 180+ days, and not just Thai citizens, on their global income has already been posted.

You can leave now.

[sometimewoodworker]

I do not know what to say. Maybe stick to wood working?

The US and Eritrea are unique in that they tax THEIR CITIZENS on WORLDWIDE INCOME regardless of their location. Such a policy is not being considered by Thailand. Even if it was, it wouldn't be relevant to expats residing in Thailand. There can be no reason to bring up these 2 countries when dozens upon dozens of other countries tax worldwide income of non-citizen residents which is what Thailand IS actually considering.

You really don’t understand what you are spouting.

The US taxes more than just citizens on worldwide income

The policy that’s being discussed in Thailand (it’s extremely unlikely to be implemented but is being discussed) is the taxation of worldwide income for everyone who is tax resident. The global taxation of anyone with Thai citizenship could be being discussed but it would be in Thai and irrelevant to the vast majority of non Thai’s

Your claim of there being dozens and dozens of countries that have that policy is currently unsupported and unsubstantiated. It is possibly true however unless your profession is as a tax advisor specialising in advising citizens of dozens and dozens of countries it is probably speculative and Trumpian

[sometimewoodworker]

I do not know what to say. Maybe stick to wood working?

The US and Eritrea are unique in that they tax THEIR CITIZENS on WORLDWIDE INCOME regardless of their location. Such a policy is not being considered by Thailand. Even if it was, it wouldn't be relevant to expats residing in Thailand. There can be no reason to bring up these 2 countries when dozens upon dozens of other countries tax worldwide income of non-citizen residents which is what Thailand IS actually considering.

You really don’t understand what you are spouting.

The US taxes more than just citizens on worldwide income

The policy that’s being discussed in Thailand (it’s extremely unlikely to be implemented but is being discussed) is the taxation of worldwide income for everyone who is tax resident. The global taxation of anyone with Thai citizenship could be being discussed but it would be in Thai and irrelevant to the vast majority of non Thai’s

Your claim of there being dozens and dozens of countries that have that policy is currently unsupported and unsubstantiated. It is possibly true however unless your profession is as a tax advisor specialising in advising citizens of dozens and dozens of countries it is probably speculative and Trumpian