Future energy sources?

[tamada]

Back on topic, here's some news on investment in green hydrogen production in Spain.

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/ ... spain.html

[AlexO]

Back on topic, here's some news on investment in green hydrogen production in Spain.

https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/ ... spain.html

Quite a small plant but its hopefully a starter for 10. Amazing that a company as rich as BP need 15M of grants from taxpayers to progress this project.

[JR]

Our system, when working properly, gets power from the panels during daytime even if it is raining, albeit less, but not during night of course. We tried it once and it ran almost two weeks without much sun. It will not cut out unless there is a fault. And if it does and our generator is set on automatic, it will start after a few seconds and run to feed the house and charge batteries. If you run a factory that is depending on UPS, you should have a backup generator.
We have run this for about ten years but it was partly replaced due to incompeten installer the first try. Changed inverters and batteries. Presently four years but had problems also with this. And again due to incompetence but from another installer! We have three inverters and chargers and one of each were replaced on warranty. Presently we have less than half power available but can still run one A/C during night. Usage 20-35kwh pr 24hrs normally. We have many lights on around the house during the night too but with 7W pr unit they do not take a lot. I will not mention names of problem equipment here due to thai laws.

[JR]

Agree with you JR. I would guess you have a bit of redundancy built into your system to help with the not so sunny daytime periods.
Even if your system does fall over very occasionally (hopefully never) as a domestic premises its not the catastrophe it would be if you have a manufacturing plant that suffers if you experience power cuts.
Quick questions, how long has your system been running and have you had any equipment failures/replacements in that time.
My annual leckie bills are around 20K a year so not too bad, others who run constant A/C much more.

Re: Future energy sources?
Post by JR » 17 Sep 2024, 08:49

Our system, when working properly, gets power from the panels during daytime even if it is raining, albeit less, but not during night of course. We tried it once and it ran almost two weeks without much sun. It will not cut out unless there is a fault. And if it does and our generator is set on automatic, it will start after a few seconds and run to feed the house and charge batteries. If you run a factory that is depending on UPS, you should have a backup generator.
We have run this for about ten years but it was partly replaced due to incompeten installer the first try. Changed inverters and batteries. Presently four years but had problems also with this. And again due to incompetence but from another installer! We have three inverters and chargers and one of each were replaced on warranty. Presently we have less than half power available but can still run one A/C during night. Usage 20-35kwh pr 24hrs normally. We have many lights on around the house during the night too but with 7W pr unit they do not take a lot. I will not mention names of problem equipment here due to thai laws.

[tamada]

BP ditching US onshore wind for European solar while refocusing on fossil fuels again, mainly due to shareholders not being too happy with previous CEO's shift to renewables. Follow the money; it's a no-brainer.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/b ... 024-09-16/

[glalt]

My solar power experiences. A good friend of mine had a farm that was off the electric grid. Connecting to the grid was out of the question because of the cost. He was simply too far from the grid. He started a business of pressing oil out of seeds and he bought two 3 phase 10 HP hydraulic presses. He went solar. It's been a lot of years ago now. He bought a huge solar power system. One main expense was a huge hybrid inverter charger. Once everything was set up and connected, he was in business. Everything was running very well but he had weak sales for his product. He was struggling financially. Then disaster struck. The hybrid charger inverter failed. He tried in vain to find someone to repair it. The company he bought it from was out of business and he had no money to simply replace it. He was broke, he sold the farm and the solar system went with the farm. I have lost track of him and have no idea of what he is doing now.

Anyways I decided to build my own systems. All my systems are small because I anticipated having problems and did not want to rely on a main system. That and the larger the components, the higher the cost. I soon found out that the Internet has vast amounts of information. A lot of that information is obviously erroneous. I learned and built my systems totally on my own. The solar panels at that time were quite expensive and I soon learned that during rainy and cloudy days, they would not keep the batteries charged. Since the panels last a long time, I finally doubled the amount I originally started with. I then learned that the cheap PWM charge controllers were wasting a lot of the power generated. I then bought MPPT controllers and was able to use much smaller cables by connecting the panels in series. The MPPT controllers convert the higher voltage to usable amperage. I will add that all my components were still original and still working fine. My main problem was keeping all those batteries topped op with distilled water. That water is not cheap and never mind the hassle of adding water. I then went with sealed batteries. I found that they lasted just as long and hassle free. Replacing batteries was very expensive and I tried many different brands. The worst brand was high end Globatt deep cycle batteries. I think replacing batteries cost me a lot more than I saved on my grid electric bills. Since the electric grid here in the boonies is on and off frequently I didn't want to give up up my solar systems. I was hesitant to try the new lithium batteries because I needed to buy new components to use them. I did finally make the change over on one system and it works great. One system is still using lead acid batteries and when they die, I will go with lithium. Lead acid batteries are dead and I will never buy another one.

So anyways, buy double the amount of solar panels recommended and MPPT charge controllers. Even during the Thai rainy season the batteries will fully charge.

Lithium ion batteries are definitely the way to go. We live and learn and I learned the hard way. One huge advantage for lithium is that lead acid can only be discharged to 50 percent while lithium can be discharged nearly to zero. That means that you only need half the size of battery bank to replace the lead acid batteries. That makes the cost about the same as lead acid plus the life is SUPPOSED to be much longer. So far, so good.

Today solar panels are much cheaper and the cost of lithium batteries has also dropped a lot. I have had one solar panel fail. It was one of those high power cheap 450 watt models. All my more than ten year old solar panels are still working fine.

[Doodoo]

Lockdown lifted for residents near Port of Montreal after lithium battery fire
The Montreal fire department was advising residents of the Mercier—Hochelaga-Maisonneuve to stay inside on Monday evening due to a fire involving 15,000 kilograms of lithium batteries.

and they say Hydrogen is dangerous

[JR]

Remember not all lithium batteries are the same. They are called the same but very different inside depending on the materials used. Those used in solar batteries are mostly LiFePO4 or LFP with LIthium, Iron and Phosphorus do not explode. The lithium batteries used in most EVs are not this type and they are dangerous, as many have seen.

[Whistler]

This post should be on the old 'let's go nuclear' thread, but can no longer access that on this forum

Dutton in the past few days espoused his plans for nucleur in Australia, claiming new reactors would be on line by 2036, a doubtful date.

Some detractors have claimed he has an alternative reason for this approach. By pushing out the date for alternative energy it slows investment in wind and solar, so fossil fuels get another 12 year reprieve.

Surely a politician would not be that devious.

[tamada]

"While conceding nuclear power will have a “significant upfront cost”, Mr Dutton will claim that the 80-year lifespan of each plant means they will outlast renewable electricity sources multiple times over. He will not, however, release any costings.

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese, however, is banking on mechanisms that incentivise the development of wind and solar projects to hit targets. That, the government says, can be supported by gas to ensure supply if demand surges."

https://www.afr.com/companies/energy/sh ... 830-p5k6p0

The seated government's stated energy policy doesn't do anything to ensure that the gas supply can meet any "demand surges". Gas is still the foundation that the vaunted renewables need to develop. For example, Melbana has recently been awarded a 6-year lease in the offshore Dampier Basin, but their first 3 years are restricted to "desktop studies" that include reprocessing of existing, legacy seismic data of questionable value and quality. Then they get 2 years of "geological and geophysical studies" that does not include new seismic studies as the government has already banned that. In their final, sixth year, if the tea leaves and the stars align, Melbana get to drill one (1) single exploration well.

[Doodoo]

More on hydrogen being used

"Today was proud day in the history of H2 Hauler PTY LTD. This morning our flagship hydrogen tube trailer was officially launched by The Hon Grace Grace MP at the National Bus & Coach Show in Brisbane.

We also announced today the formation of H2E Transit, a hydrogen bus building collaboration between ARCC and H2 Hauler based in Queensland.

Thanks to all who attended this morning and thank you to all our supporters, suppliers and industry collaborators who have been with us on the journey. "

[tamada]

More on hydrogen being used

"Today was proud day in the history of H2 Hauler PTY LTD. This morning our flagship hydrogen tube trailer was officially launched by The Hon Grace Grace MP at the National Bus & Coach Show in Brisbane.

We also announced today the formation of H2E Transit, a hydrogen bus building collaboration between ARCC and H2 Hauler based in Queensland.

Thanks to all who attended this morning and thank you to all our supporters, suppliers and industry collaborators who have been with us on the journey. "

I remember when Leader, a Toowoomba-based truck manufacturer, provided a versatile and reliable platform for water-well drill rigs. They were also great for uphole drilling (land seismic technique for oil and gas exploration).

[pipoz4444]

This would suggest Finland's Government has a clear direction of where it is going Congrats





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYpiK3W-g_0


pipoz444

[Doodoo]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/a ... 51f1&ei=25

[tamada]

Lockdown lifted for residents near Port of Montreal after lithium battery fire
The Montreal fire department was advising residents of the Mercier—Hochelaga-Maisonneuve to stay inside on Monday evening due to a fire involving 15,000 kilograms of lithium batteries.

and they say Hydrogen is dangerous

Pressurised for tanker or pipeline transport, it is.

https://www.gexcon.com/blog/lessons-lea ... incidents/

[Doodoo]

"Pressurized for tanker or pipeline transport, it is."
Never said it wasnt

[Barney]

Queensland labor gov't has proposed 2 pump hydro schemes. couple of gigawatts each
Price upwards of 26 billion for both with the QLD State labor Gvt already declaring a 6 billion of taxpayer money input. The 26 billion is only estimates at this stage, expect 30 billion minimum at project end by 2030.
I doubt that cost estimate includes 1000's of KM's of power lines across the countryside and farmers properties.
So, the argument against nuclear, one might think, as being way to expensive must now be off the table.
3 nuclear plants could be built for that same price without the degradation of millions of acres of untouched wilderness.

[tamada]

When I was rooting around for oil beyond the black stump in Isisford, hot bore water was all over the place. Having a hot shower on town water in Blackall smelled like a fart. Must be a good argument for geothermal, no? I'll Google it.

[AlexO]

When I was rooting around for oil beyond the black stump in Isisford, hot bore water was all over the place. Having a hot shower on town water in Blackall smelled like a fart. Must be a good argument for geothermal, no? I'll Google it.

Difference Tam.
Barney is talking about a National strategy for future power sources while you were scrabbling about for the next cash cow for an already stupidly rich oil company.

[glalt]

There is indeed a huge difference between lithium batteries. Most lithium batteries for home solar use today are lithium iron batteries. They are safer and even cheaper than some others. The prices have been dropping. I bought my first 200AH battery and paid 18,000 baht for it. That one battery replaced two 200AH lead acid batteries. I am very pleased with that battery and will NEVER buy another home solar deep cycle lead acid battery. I just bought another identical 200AH lithium battery and paid 13,000 baht. That is a considerable price drop.

For home use, you will need a new charge controller that is suitable for lithium batteries and a shunt to monotor the voltage and SOC of the battery. The life of these batteries should be much longer than the life of the lead acid batteries. Time will tell. My lead acid expensive deep cycle batteries lasted me about three years. I think the battery costs were far higher than what I saved on my electric bill. I didn't go solar to save money, The electric grid here goes down VERY orten.