TAX on Income from Abroad

[Declan MacPherson]

I think the purpose of the tax fiasco is to control money laundering. While doing this, they have spotlighted the low hanging fruit. More thought should have been given to the amount remitted. I doubt that most retirees remit more than a million baht a year. That first million should be exempt. Also one property such as a condo purchase per retiree should also be exempt.

Full agreement.

[jackspratt]

I doubt that most retirees remit more than a million baht a year. That first million should be exempt.

Is that on top of the 560,000 (married + over 65) that already is?

[glalt]

I doubt that most retirees remit more than a million baht a year. That first million should be exempt.

Is that on top of the 560,000 (married + over 65) that already is?

No. It just simplifies it.

[jackspratt]

To be equitable, it would also need to apply to Thai citizens.

That may put a bit of a dent in overall tax collections.

Does the US exempt the first ~$30,000 of income from tax?

[Declan MacPherson]

I doubt that most retirees remit more than a million baht a year. That first million should be exempt.

Is that on top of the 560,000 (married + over 65) that already is?

No. It just simplifies it.

While we're wishing, the amount that we are required to keep on deposit in Thai Banks (400,000/800,000) should also be a 100% deduction.

[tamada]

I think the Thai tax plan is being reconsidered by the Thai government. It has backfired. Some retirees are leaving and others have changed their plans of retiring here in Thailand. Retirees all spend a lot of money here and pay the VAT. That is a big part of government budget.

It hasn't backfired as it hasn't been fully implemented yet. Apart from that, they don't give a hoot that old people of limited means are going home. Long-term foreign retirees are lower than the low-hanging fruit.

They are after the retirees who think nothing of parking their yacht at a marina in Phuket before flying via business jet to their new, $4 million villa on Mount Maunganui’s ‘millionaire’s mile’ in New Zealand.

These retirees have multiple domiciles to avoid tax but on their Thai stopovers, they probably drop more baht in the local coffers in a year than 180,000 pensioners manage in a lifetime.

[tamada]

https://www.rd.go.th/english/6045.html

This "horse's mouth" interlude brought to you by...

Given that the "horse" in this case was foaled 4 years ago, I am happy to go with what the major tax advisors are advising, plus a more recent example from the TRD.


https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/i ... ermination
https://sherrings.com/personal-tax-dedu ... iland.html
https://www.forvismazars.com/th/en/insi ... income-tax
https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download ... uide91.pdf

Up to you.

[tamada]

I think the Thai tax plan is being reconsidered by the Thai government. It has backfired. Some retirees are leaving and others have changed their plans of retiring here in Thailand. Retirees all spend a lot of money here and pay the VAT. That is a big part of government budget.

I agree with your views regarding our spending levels and tourism; but I'm not sure the powers making the rules are seeing it. I hope I'm wrong.

I would be curious to know just how much foreigners spend here annually.

You would think that they would have measured the result of this taxation and how it will affect Thai families with a husband/father possessing a foreigner pension. They make exceptions for the Visa requirements for those who support Thai families, but so far there doesn't seem to be any consideration for that with the new tax code.

Probably because they have more than enough of their born-and-bred poor folks that a few hundred thousand foreign ones topping up rural bank accounts aren't worth the effort.

With the rush to jump on the OECD bandwagon, they've caught on to to the more developed world's growing hatred of migrants, regardless of their expectations of having some sort of "rights" in Thailand.

Probably didn't take much though, considering the words that most of the nation sings at 8 a.m. on most mornings.

[Declan MacPherson]

I've figured out exactly what I'm going to do with this. I just finished reading all of the current tax info. If it remains the same, I'll be in the clear.

Good luck and best wishes to all.

[Doodoo]

From FACEBOOK
Noticed this posting this morning from a David Lee

"Hi Every One.
I am hopefully setting up a meeting in Udonthani with two Tax and Financial advisors from Bangkok very shortly; if any of you or your friends would like to attend, please pass on to me their names so I can get an idea of how many people would be interested in attending the meeting.
The two men are.
Thomas Carden from American International Tax Advisors.
Lee Stevens from Business Class Asia, a Pension Trust expert.
So if any of you are Interested please contact me.
David."

I dont know this gentleman and have no interest in this
Good Luck

[Declan MacPherson]

You misunderstand the TRD information it is not a simple file if 180 days or over
All Thai tax returns are based on self assessment.
There is no legal requirement to file a tax return
There is a requirement to pay tax if any tax is due
The overwhelming majority of TRD offices do not want a tax return filed if there is no tax due to be paid or tax due to be refunded, but see 6) under. You can still file a zero tax due return.

. . .

To discover if you have a tax liability
1) have you lived in Thailand for more than 179 days? If no, no tax liability so stop reading
2) calculate all your allowances

• These include but are not limited to
  Personal allowance ฿60,000
  Over 65 allowance ฿190,000
  Expenses allowance ฿100,000
  Allowance for receiving pension over 200k, ฿100,000
  Non tax paying spouse allowance ฿60,000
  Spouse™’s Father-Mother Exemption. ฿30,000
  There are many more allowances

3) calculate the tax paid on the income that has been remitted
4) if your allowances and tax paid are greater than the income amount remitted you have no tax to pay so stop reading
5) if your remitted income is more than ฿150,000 (zero rate amount) over the deductions you have a tax liability and are required to submit a tax return and pay the tax due

6) hope that the TRD accepts your return and does not decide to audit you. The vast majority of returns are accepted, and never audited
The TRD has 3 years to decide that they are going to audit you if you have filed tax returns.
The TRD has 10 years to decide that they are going to audit you if you have not filed tax returns.

7) if you are audited you must be able to prove that your calculations are correct, that any money remitted and not assessed was exempt from assessment, that all allowances are accurate, that any DTA modifications to income are correct, that any DTA tax exemption is accurate. It is your responsibility to prove all the above, it is not the TRD’s job to disprove anything but they can certainly challenge your claims.

Am I to understand that if the individual calculates NO tax liability, the individual is NOT required to file a tax return if they owe nothing?

[sometimewoodworker]

Am I to understand that if the individual calculates NO tax liability, the individual is NOT required to file a tax return if they owe nothing?

That depends on who you talk to.

Talk to a lawyer and they will say you must still file a tax return

Talk to a TRD officer (the ones who accept tax returns) or a tax consultant and and they will say “no tax due, no tax refund due, do not file a tax return”

I know who I believe. You do you TIT YMMV

[Declan MacPherson]

Thanks, STWW.

[newtovillagelife]

What if the TRD decides to audit you, but you have left the country already.

[sometimewoodworker]

What if the TRD decides to audit you, but you have left the country already.

That is not a situation that I can answer, I can speculate though.

AFIK the TRD acts exclusively within Thailand, they don’t have or don’t use, extradition powers.
Depending on the reasons behind the decision they may flag you for questioning if you return to Thailand, they may just forget the audit.

There is one country that I will never return to due to a peripherally related situation, but one that is not speculative but definite.

[rick]

I am 99.9% certain i have no tax liability in Thailand. I have approx. 600,000 in allowances, and a UK Government pension covered by the UK/Thai DTA. My only issue is exactly what proof they will require, as most of it is in comingled funds. Until such time as specific guidance is issued (none yet) and local tax offices seem to know nothing yet, just going to wait and see.
Meanwhile Tax consultants are multiplying like aphids on a succulent plant. Of course they will tell you you need to file, knowing many out of ignorance would pay for their services. They also know next to nothing as to how it will be implemented.

If you are on one million plus baht remitted a year, maybe time to cut back until you know more.

[tamada]

I am 99.9% certain i have no tax liability in Thailand. I have approx. 600,000 in allowances, and a UK Government pension covered by the UK/Thai DTA. My only issue is exactly what proof they will require, as most of it is in comingled funds. Until such time as specific guidance is issued (none yet) and local tax offices seem to know nothing yet, just going to wait and see.
Meanwhile Tax consultants are multiplying like aphids on a succulent plant. Of course they will tell you you need to file, knowing many out of ignorance would pay for their services. They also know next to nothing as to how it will be implemented.

If you are on one million plus baht remitted a year, maybe time to cut back until you know more.

I have it on good account that hundreds of mia noi were put on notice of a change of circumstances for almost a year already.

And that's just in Nongbua Lamphu.

[Declan MacPherson]

I am 99.9% certain i have no tax liability in Thailand. I have approx. 600,000 in allowances, and a UK Government pension covered by the UK/Thai DTA. My only issue is exactly what proof they will require, as most of it is in comingled funds. Until such time as specific guidance is issued (none yet) and local tax offices seem to know nothing yet, just going to wait and see.
Meanwhile Tax consultants are multiplying like aphids on a succulent plant. Of course they will tell you you need to file, knowing many out of ignorance would pay for their services. They also know next to nothing as to how it will be implemented.

If you are on one million plus baht remitted a year, maybe time to cut back until you know more.

Nice observations.

Everyone should have a plan -- Plan A and Plan B and Plan C.

Good luck to all.

[pipoz4444]

Plan A: Don't Pay Tax. My Plan has been in place for the past 26 Years and worked effectively

Plan B: Limit your domicile time in Thailand (or any Country to that matter) if possible to your circumstance, so you don't become subject to that Countries Residency status laws for taxation purpose. Try to have other options where you can live or stay.

Plan C1: Take precautions and think about how you disperse your assets and where you place them. Don't centralize your assets and keep a portion liquid. Make sure you can readily access sufficient liquid assets at any one time, to cover your lifestyle for minimum of 3 years. At my age, I only really plan my lifestyle looking more than 3 years ahead, as one doesn't really know how long one will be here.

Plan C 2: Make sure you
a. Are aware of/understand the Banking rules and other restrictive laws where your assets are kept.
b. Have a form of World Wide Health Care cover, that works for you properly, in whichever country you might intend to visit or wherever you might stay for the longer term.
c. Give all your personal information (especially for C1) to someone you can trust, should something unforeseen happen to you.
d. Avoid moving money through the Banking system from one country to another as much as you reasonably can. There are other ways to move it.

I realize this doesn't work for everyone, it just works for me.

Just remember most countries will inevitably change their respective laws, periodically, be it for taxation or residency or immigration. The only saving grace is that you can normally see it coming and that they take time to get their laws into effect.

In recent years, a number of countries have decided that their is an opportunity to tax their citizens who for whatever reason don't live, reside or work in that home country.

My view is that it is pure greed by the Government of that Country, driven by Bureaucrats within, who themselves often milk the coffers at home (with their pensions schemes, perks and or enormous payouts), both the Public Servants and Politicians alike.

These A...Holes have nothing better to do that come after those who have sought to make a better life for themselves overseas, most likely find money for the next generation of A..Holes

Regards

pipoz4444

[sometimewoodworker]

I am 99.9% certain i have no tax liability in Thailand.

That is certainly possible

I have approx. 600,000 in allowances, and a UK Government pension covered by the UK/Thai DTA.

The UK/Thai DTC doesn’t stop you from having to pay Thai tax. There is a small window of remittance which is over the Thai allowances and zero rate tax band but under the U.K. personal allowance where you need to pay tax in Thailand

Once you go over the U.K. personal allowance you are usually paying more tax in the U.K. than you owe in Thailand this is where the DTC may mean you have no Thai tax liability. (That is assuming that your U.K. pension is not a government service pension which is exempt from Thai taxation, usually,)

My only issue is exactly what proof they will require, as most of it is in comingled funds. Until such time as specific guidance is issued (none yet) and local tax offices seem to know nothing yet, just going to wait and see.w more.

You do not have to provide any proof until or unless the TRD decides to audit you.

If the the TRD decides to audit you then you must prove that either your tax return is accurate or you didn’t have enough assessable income to need to file a tax return

So while audits are not at all common the general revenue department approach is to decide that all your income is assessable, give you a tax bill that is almost certainly too high and if you can not prove that you should pay less tax or no tax then you must pay the assessed amount.

The revenue department does not have to prove that your income is liable to tax.
You have to prove that your incomes is not liable to be taxed.
If you have not separated your funds then you may not be able to prove the origin of them. That is precisely why I bed and breakfasted at the end of last year, so I can prove the amount of pre 2024 money

The local tax office is unlikely to have any more information as they are not the ones who will conduct the audit

If you don’t file a tax return they have 10 years to decide to audit you