TAX on Income from Abroad

[newtovillagelife]

Hi STW, could you please explain what you mean by the term "bed and breakfasted", and how it pertains to the current Thai tax situation. Thanks.

[Declan MacPherson]

According to the representative at the Udon TRD with whom I spoke yesterday, foreigners are expected to file a return whether they think they owe tax or not.

My form has already been completed and is awaiting submission. If the the tax code requirements and/or deductions change between now and my filing date, I'll just transfer the information to whatever will be the "form of the day."

TIT. So expect anything.

Being an American has its advantages. Free and clear.

Good luck to all.

NOTE: I will not be surprised if this tax paperwork becomes part of the immigration visa renewal process every year. Just a guess.

[Declan MacPherson]

I have also heard rumblings of the tax extending BEYOND what expats bring into the country. A global tax on all of your assets whether you bring those assets into the country or not.

Rumors flying everywhere, but nothing would surprise me at this point.

[Udon Map]

A global tax on all of your assets whether you bring those assets into the country or not.

I've heard the rumor, as well. It will never happen. Thailand has no mechanism for identifying and valuing all of onoe's assets globally.

[sometimewoodworker]

Hi STW, could you please explain what you mean by the term "bed and breakfasted", and how it pertains to the current Thai tax situation. Thanks.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual ... al/cg13350

Is an example of its use.
It is a far to complex process to explain without considerable typing, but the concept is remarkably simple and applies to many financial situations

[Declan MacPherson]

Newton's Third Law
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

People will change their behavior as the tax rates are changed.

Foreigners are "not inert blocks of wood or chess pieces that can be moved around on a chess board." There will be a reaction; and it's been tested before in other places. The spending behavior of foreigners will change (and are already changing).

e.g. Foreigners will leave . Foreigners will spend less than 180 days in Thailand and spend less . Foreigners who stay will bring less money to Thailand . Foreigners who stay will make cuts and spend less money in Thailand (VAT tax revenues for the government will go down) . Foreigners will avoid it through various methods

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The Great former Marxist (admitted) Thomas Sowell always gets it right.



“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”



I am not anticipating any issue for myself personally. All looking very good. Good luck to all.

[Doodoo]

Passing it along

"Hi Everyone.
The meeting with the tax and finance experts will be held at Centara Hotel Udonthani on the 24th of October at 11.30 am on the second floor.
Hope to see you there, please pass the word around.
David Lee"

[tamada]

Newton's Third Law
For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

People will change their behavior as the tax rates are changed.

Foreigners are "not inert blocks of wood or chess pieces that can be moved around on a chess board." There will be a reaction; and it's been tested before in other places. The spending behavior of foreigners will change (and are already changing).

e.g. Foreigners will leave . Foreigners will spend less than 180 days in Thailand and spend less . Foreigners who stay will bring less money to Thailand . Foreigners who stay will make cuts and spend less money in Thailand (VAT tax revenues for the government will go down) . Foreigners will avoid it through various methods

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

The Great former Marxist (admitted) Thomas Sowell always gets it right.



“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”



I am not anticipating any issue for myself personally. All looking very good. Good luck to all.

Thanks for that, very insightful, and as a millionaire myself, this does resonate.

Does the same rule of blind fiscal dipshitery apply when a government (like the UK) arbitrarily levies a "windfall" tax on an industry, just because said industry is making like gangbusters on a comparative short-term shift in profitability? In other words, a cash grab?

[sometimewoodworker]

It will be interesting to see how they differentiate money coming from pension, superannuation, savings and income. The other challege will be drawing income from an ATM on a foreign account.

If you get audited (not too likely but possible)
“They” will not differentiate the income, they will assume that all income is assessable and that tax is due on the total. They will also assume that any withdrawal from an ATM from a foreign account is assessable income.

It is your job to prove that income is;
Not assessable,
Assessable and is under the threshold to need to pay tax on
Assessable but has been taxed in a country with a DTC/DTA and the tax paid in the other country is more than the Thai tax assessed
Or is assessable and your calculation of the tax due (and paid) is correct

So you have to differentiate and hope that if audited that the auditors will agree with you.
So it will be interesting to see how exactly you are going to prove to the TRD that you are correct.

If you cannot prove your assessment then I hope you have enough money to pay the assessed taxes and penalties, it is extremely unlikely that you will be given free government housing, though it is a possibility!!!

[sometimewoodworker]

A global tax on all of your assets whether you bring those assets into the country or not.

I've heard the rumor, as well. It will never happen. Thailand has no mechanism for identifying and valuing all of onoe's assets globally.

It is happening, or at least is under active discussion, with laws to be gazetted in 2025/2026 with implementation sometime after, or in, 2027.

Of course it is possible that the British and American chambers of commerce may reduce the effect on smaller tax payers.

And it is the tax payer who has to identify and value the assets.

[Udon Map]

And it is the tax payer who has to identify and value the assets.

I'm sure that that will be a very successful initiative. After all, no one cheats on their taxes. And it's so easy for the Thai tax authorities to find my bank accounts at my local, community bank in the U.S.

[Drunk Monkey]

Don't normally post on these kind of threads but this popped up so thought i would add it to the mix ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vODJYfc5IgE

[jackspratt]

The antenna starts twitching at the very start, with a law firm called "Integrity Legal".

It then turns into a Trumpist-style conservative rant introducing WEF, "outside forces" and numerous other right wing talking points.

The only thing he leaves out is "woke".

Strip away the off-putting rhetoric, all you are really left with is that there is no requirement at present to lodge a return if you have determined you are not liable for tax. Which I agree with.

[Declan MacPherson]

Don't normally post on these kind of threads but this popped up so thought i would add it to the mix ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vODJYfc5IgE

This was excellent. Thanks for posting.

[Declan MacPherson]

Another unintended consequence of the TRD.

Talked to 2 guys today who have already started their 179-Day stays in Thailand. One is a friend. The other is friends with that friend.

Both had 2 bank accounts that they used for renewing their visas. One closed both of their accounts. The other closed one of the accounts and greatly reduced the account balance in the other.

They don't need to keep money here like they did before.

[FrazeeDK]

so, how do they stay for 179 days if not a marriage or retirement extension? The new Thai digital nomad visa?

[pipoz4444]

Another unintended consequence of the TRD.

Talked to 2 guys today who have already started their 179-Day stays in Thailand. One is a friend. The other is friends with that friend.

Both had 2 bank accounts that they used for renewing their visas. One closed both of their accounts. The other closed one of the accounts and greatly reduced the account balance in the other.

They don't need to keep money here like they did before.

Already doing the same. Myself and several friends

We do realize that we will not make a dent in the Thai economy.

As good as Thailand is or was, it more personal choices to spread our remaining time between Thailand, Phnom Penh and Da Nang

pipoz4444

[tamada]

Another unintended consequence of the TRD.

Talked to 2 guys today who have already started their 179-Day stays in Thailand. One is a friend. The other is friends with that friend.

Both had 2 bank accounts that they used for renewing their visas. One closed both of their accounts. The other closed one of the accounts and greatly reduced the account balance in the other.

They don't need to keep money here like they did before.

Already doing the same. Myself and several friends

We do realize that we will not make a dent in the Thai economy.

As good as Thailand is or was, it more personal choices to spread our remaining time between Thailand, Phnom Penh and Da Nang

pipoz4444

All a bit premature and "burn your bridges" IMHO but, if committed to it while intent on staying in the region, the 3-way split you mention is ideal.

[Declan MacPherson]

Sweet deal for US citizens coming to Thailand for only 179 Days.

According to the Thai Embassy, US citizens can visit Thailand for 30 days under the visa exemption program.

There is also a 60-Day Visa upon Entry started on July 15, 2024. US citizens are entitled to receive a 60-day visa upon entry to Thailand for tourism, business engagements, and urgent or ad-hoc work.

While still in Thailand, US citizens can extend their stay for an additional 90 days at the discretion of the Thai Immigration Bureau. Or they can make a 1-day border run and renew their stay for another 90 days.

With a U.S. passport, US citizens can stay in Thailand:
- 30 days under the visa exemption program
- 60 days with a visa upon entry (starting July 15, 2024)
- Additional 90-day extensions through the Thai Immigration Bureau

179 Day stay is easy peasy.

NOTE: I have been in contact with a retired immigration officer who has told me about a 6 month visa option that can be done.

[pipoz4444]

Not burning any bridges

Just building some new ones /

Premature: Not sure, as my crystal ball will not show me how many years are left. But for sure the mobility clock is ticking (can feel it every day) and the number of years are slowly diminishing (one year at a time), so have decided to make the most what is left.

pipoz44444