Israel under attack from hamas, war declared.

[Doodoo]

"Religious fanaticism aside, at some point some of these Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad folks are going to start thinking that they'd prefer to live, and that living is better than dying for the cause"

And this is why it will never stop, RELIGIOUS FANATICISM. Its been going on for centuries, so why stop now?

[Udon Map]

Its been going on for centuries, so why stop now?

Hopefully, some of the fanataics will decide that they'd rather live than become martyrs.

[AlexO]

Religious fanaticism aside, at some point some of these Hamas/Hezbollah/Islamic Jihad folks are going to start thinking that they'd prefer to live, and that living is better than dying for the cause.

Israel has guaranteed immediate protection from Hamas by the IDF and safe passage out of Gaza to anyone there who turns over any of the hostages. It will be interesting to see if anyone takes them up on that.

You might be getting closer to the truth than some would like.
When are Palestinians going to wake up to the fact that they are mere cannon fodder for the High Level leadership living in absolute luxury in Qatar while their world is being dismantled around them.
When are they going to realise that the top doggies encouraging people to become human bombs have no intention of dying for the cause themselves and the promise of a few more young goats does not really seem that attractive anymore.

[Doodoo]

"Hopefully, some of the fanatics will decide that they'd rather live than become martyrs."

Then all that will be left will be the raging Christians

[jackspratt]

More reporting on the lack of neutral reporting out of Gaza, but some real reporting coming out of Lebanon - because it is not being controlled by the IDF propaganda arm.

Given some of the opening scenes from Gaza, it is understandable why the IDF wants to maintain its firm grip on the Gaza narrative.

[tamada]

More reporting on the lack of neutral reporting out of Gaza, but some real reporting coming out of Lebanon - because it is not being controlled by the IDF propaganda arm.

Given some of the opening scenes from Gaza, it is understandable why the IDF wants to maintain its firm grip on the Gaza narrative.

Wouldn't see any of that on Sky downundah, eh?

[Udon Map]

More reporting on the lack of neutral reporting out of Gaza, but some real reporting coming out of Lebanon - because it is not being controlled by the IDF propaganda arm.

Given some of the opening scenes from Gaza, it is understandable why the IDF wants to maintain its firm grip on the Gaza narrative.

Jack, how would you react if your country were on the receiving end of rockets every day?

[jackspratt]

Jack, how would you react if your country were on the receiving end of rockets every day?

I'd defend the right of my country to defend itself, within the internationally accepted bounds and limits.

Which, among other things, includes proportionality and accountability.

And I would expect my country to examine what was the root cause of the rockets being fired, to determine what else could be done - rather than slaughter - to bring an end to it.

[AlexO]

Jack, how would you react if your country were on the receiving end of rockets every day?

I'd defend the right of my country to defend itself, within the internationally accepted bounds and limits.

Which, among other things, includes proportionality and accountability.

And I would expect my country to examine what was the root cause of the rockets being fired, to determine what else could be done - rather than slaughter - to bring an end to it.

What a seriously naive response.
If Hamas, Hezbollah or any of the other Iranian sponsored terror groups had the upper hand just how much proportionality and accountability would you reckon would be evident.
You seem to totally ignore the fact that Israel is fighting for its very existence against barbaric terror groups.

[Udon Map]

Jack, how would you react if your country were on the receiving end of rockets every day?

I'd defend the right of my country to defend itself, within the internationally accepted bounds and limits.

Which, among other things, includes proportionality and accountability.

But there's the rub. Define proportionality. Is it a numeric definition? How do you define it? At what point should Israel have stopped its offensives against Hamas and Hezbollah?

[jackspratt]

To reiterate:

And I would expect my country to examine what was the root cause of the rockets being fired, to determine what else could be done - rather than slaughter - to bring an end to it.

[tamada]

To reiterate:

And I would expect my country to examine what was the root cause of the rockets being fired, to determine what else could be done - rather than slaughter - to bring an end to it.

Isn't the root cause the stateless but heavily sponsored Muslim terrorists seeking the death of all Jews?

Or is it simply the Iranian Shi'i wishing to usurp the Sunni Saudi Sunni as the guardian of Islam?

Either way, bombing Iran should nip all this s**t in the bud, just like bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki did 77 years ago.

[jackspratt]

Isn't the root cause the stateless but heavily sponsored Muslim terrorists seeking the death of all Jews?

It could be something as simplistic as that.

But probably isn't.

[Udon Map]

To reiterate:

And I would expect my country to examine what was the root cause of the rockets being fired, to determine what else could be done - rather than slaughter - to bring an end to it.

And assuming that this examination would likely take more than a couple of hours, what would you do in the interim to stop the attacks?

[AlexO]

One would hope that the people calling for proportional responses from Israel will also call for the same from the Turkish Government in their new bombing campaign against the Kurds.
Probably not, but there is always hope.

[tamada]

Qatar has told the leaders of Hamas to leave the country following pressure from Washington, in a significant shift in policy by the Gulf state.

The request was made around 10 days ago after intense discussions with US officials, according to one person familiar with the matter.

With a likely relocation to Turkey, I wonder how the Biden administration's argument that Hamas "should no longer be welcome in the capitals of any American partner" will go down with Turkey's despotic leader?

https://www.ft.com/content/0d9dc942-96f ... 668b3d168c

[FrazeeDK]

Yes, the Qataris probably had lots of pressure from the other Arab states less the Iranian proxies along with the US. But, funding and putting up Hamas's overseas leadership in luxury accomodations wasn't a good PR look now that Hamas has been beaten into the Gazan landscape...

As for Erdogan, despotic? Nah, autocratic yes... Turkey is still a parlementary democracy with regular elections. Does he want those Hamas slugs in Turkey at his expense or.. is Qatar going to foot the bill there?

[tamada]

Yes, the Qataris probably had lots of pressure from the other Arab states less the Iranian proxies along with the US. But, funding and putting up Hamas's overseas leadership in luxury accomodations wasn't a good PR look now that Hamas has been beaten into the Gazan landscape...

As for Erdogan, despotic? Nah, autocratic yes... Turkey is still a parlementary democracy with regular elections. Does he want those Hamas slugs in Turkey at his expense or.. is Qatar going to foot the bill there?

Maybe something for a different thread.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... despotism/

[tamada]

United States President-elect Donald Trump has identified his picks for two key positions likely to shape his administration’s role in the Middle East over the next four years.

On Tuesday, Trump announced on his Truth Social platform that he would nominate former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee to the post of US ambassador to Israel.

“There are certain words I refuse to use. There is no such thing as a West Bank. It’s Judea and Samaria. There’s no such thing as a settlement. They’re communities, they’re neighbourhoods, they’re cities. There’s no such thing as an occupation,” he said on the news network CNN in 2017.

Later in the day, Trump also nominated his regular golf partner, real estate tycoon Steven Witkoff, to be a special envoy to the Middle East.

https://www.kxan.com/news/political-new ... a-zionist/

[Udon Map]

All those Palestinians sympathizers in the U.S. who refused to vote Democratic because of U.S. policy supporting Israel, -- what until they see what Trump does with regard to Israel. He's already told Netanyahu to "do what you have to" to win and eliminate Hamas.