new tax for all foreigners...

[tamada]

Now then, now then, now then gentleman. it's all getting a bit silly isn't it?
Let's spell it out to those who have gone into panick mode.
It's no good saying let's wait until next year when you submit your assessment, it's what you do this year that matters.
If you were the people looking to track down Foreign Income Tax dodgers where would you start?
No1. Who qualifies as a Tax Resident, ie those that have spent 180 days or more in Thailand.
No2. How would I locate said Tax Residents.

Now this is the tricky part, I Assume that there is a countrywide Database of all legal foreigners held by Immigration tracking entries and exits from the country, Yes/No?

It's no good saying, "oh they wouldn't share their Database with another Government department, that's not Cricket Sir" We are talking Money.

So far on this thread and the other as Mr Galee has pointed out, just lots of bluster and bull****

Ah but, we have a Duel Tax Agreement, I've attempted to get my head around that, no info on different Tax Thresholds, different Tax years, Tax Credits.

Oh, and Maybe your Passport Number is your new Tin Number. How dare I suggest that.

Logical best Advice, go see a friendly Accountant.

Several people brought a wedge in before the 1st January to beat the tax rules on earned income as it was explained at the time when the RD first dropped this bombshell. Subsequent statements from the PM (and not yet denied) say that all income, regardless of when or where it was earned is taxable income. So the late-2023 lump sum transfer won't make any difference.

Getting familiar with your nation's dual taxation agreement is a very, very good idea. Loads of "bluster and bull****" creators talk loudly about it but have no clue what it means and how it's applied. They bandy the words around like it's some magic spell that, when whispered to the tax man, makes all the mystery (and your tax liability) vanish.

As for the rest, do it next year. Accountants are as clueless as the rest of us at the moment but some may profess knowing different so they can charge you for something they've either made up or is totally wrong. Right now, it's still YOUR money.

As for getting your TIN from the local tax office (if you haven't been given one by the Thai tax man already) you can do it now if you want. It will have 13 digits and will not be your passport number. That, along with the 180 or more days breathing in Thailand, is probably the only certainty at the moment.

[newtovillagelife]

Are you saying, any funds you brought into Thailand in 2023 is Taxable? I thought this tax grab is only from Jan. 1, 2024. If that is the case, I guess all expats who spent more than 180 days in Thailand last year, have already filed Thai taxes for 2023. The deadline has long since passed, yet it seems nobody has filed????



.

[tamada]

Are you saying, any funds you brought into Thailand in 2023 is Taxable? I thought this tax grab is only from Jan. 1, 2024. If that is the case, I guess all expats who spent more than 180 days in Thailand last year, have already filed Thai taxes for 2023. The deadline has long since passed, yet it seems nobody has filed????

Any money that was remitted to Thailand in 2023 isn't taxable. Only remittances brought in during 2024 onwards will be liable for income tax assessment. Nobody has been required to file their 2023 taxes unless they're working here or, have otherwise always been filing their annual Thai income taxes.

I was commenting on those that brought in a large lump sum in late 2023 in order to meet the "year it was earned" criteria that applied when the Revenue Department INITIALLY advised of the new, 2024 tax rules. This "seasoning" period has been removed in SUBSEQUENT media releases from the government, meaning that any remittance may be liable for tax in 2024, regardless of when it was earned.

[glalt]

This tax scheme could result in more expats visiting their home countries. You are permitted to bring in $10,000 US without declaring it. I don't know about other expats, but I could live nearly a year on $10,000 US dollars. As it already is, immigration requires a copy of every page of my bank book for my visa. They know how much you deposit and spend every year. This whole thing will be a can of worms. Some expats use their US bank cards and get their cash form ATM machines.

[tamada]

The undeclared $10,000 is exchanged at a money changer and the baht taken home and kept in the undeclared mattress. No need for bank or ATM visits.

Licenced money changers already need to see ID or passports to facilitate such a transaction and maybe, like hotels, they will need to report passport details along with transaction information to the BoT.

Find an unlicensed money changer maybe? Risky business?

[noosard]

Have never been asked for id when changing money
Maybe things have or will change

[tamada]

Have never been asked for id when changing money
Maybe things have or will change

Money changers in Pattaya wanted to see passports. Some forex booths had photocopies posted on the walls of the passports of those who had defrauded them, passed fake notes, etc..

We're not in sleepy old Thailand any more, Toto.

[anefarious1]

Are you saying, any funds you brought into Thailand in 2023 is Taxable? I thought this tax grab is only from Jan. 1, 2024. If that is the case, I guess all expats who spent more than 180 days in Thailand last year, have already filed Thai taxes for 2023. The deadline has long since passed, yet it seems nobody has filed????

Any money that was remitted to Thailand in 2023 isn't taxable. Only remittances brought in during 2024 onwards will be liable for income tax assessment. Nobody has been required to file their 2023 taxes unless they're working here or, have otherwise always been filing their annual Thai income taxes.

I was commenting on those that brought in a large lump sum in late 2023 in order to meet the "year it was earned" criteria that applied when the Revenue Department INITIALLY advised of the new, 2024 tax rules. This "seasoning" period has been removed in SUBSEQUENT media releases from the government, meaning that any remittance may be liable for tax in 2024, regardless of when it was earned.

You are putting out false and misleading information as usual.

Anyone interested in the correct info can Google "Departmental Instruction No. Por 162/2566" which was issued by the Revenue Department on 20 Nov last year. Only remitted funds that were earned from Jan 1, 2024 onwards will be considered assessable for taxation.

[tamada]

You are putting out false and misleading information as usual.

Anyone interested in the truth regarding this subject and the timing of assessable income can Google "Departmental Instruction No. Por 162/2566" that was issued by the Revenue Department on 20 Nov last year. That is all.

Thanks for providing the name of the relevant instruction, as follows:

"Section 41 A taxpayer who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment, or from business carried on in Thailand, or from business of an employer residing in Thailand, or from a property situated in Thailand shall pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part, whether such income is paid within or outside Thailand.

A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand."

Here's a link for those who may wish not to take things for granted.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

[anefarious1]

You are putting out false and misleading information as usual.

Anyone interested in the truth regarding this subject and the timing of assessable income can Google "Departmental Instruction No. Por 162/2566" that was issued by the Revenue Department on 20 Nov last year. That is all.

Thanks for providing the name of the relevant instruction, as follows:

"Section 41 A taxpayer who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment, or from business carried on in Thailand, or from business of an employer residing in Thailand, or from a property situated in Thailand shall pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part, whether such income is paid within or outside Thailand.

A resident of Thailand who in the previous tax year derived assessable income under Section 40 from an employment or from business carried on abroad or from a property situated abroad shall, upon bringing such assessable income into Thailand, pay tax in accordance with the provisions of this Part.

Any person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year shall be deemed a resident of Thailand."

Here's a link for those who may wish not to take things for granted.

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

Useless to you. To anyone else interested, again refer to Por 162/2566

[noosard]

Have never been asked for id when changing money
Maybe things have or will change

Money changers in Pattaya wanted to see passports. Some forex booths had photocopies posted on the walls of the passports of those who had defrauded them, passed fake notes, etc..

We're not in sleepy old Thailand any more, Toto.

Only change money in Fuket and Udorn never needed id

[tamada]

Useless to you. To anyone else interested, again refer to Por 162/2566

"The Director-General of the Revenue Department had issued Revenue Department Order No. Por. 161/2566 dated 15 September 2023, causing a high burden to pay taxes in Thailand for those who have income derived from foreign sources outside Thailand (“foreign-sourced income”) and who bring such income into Thailand during B.E. 2567 (2024). However, the criteria of said Order is not particularly clear in practice. Subsequently, Director-General of the Revenue Department issued Revenue Department Order No. Por. 162/2566 regarding payment of income tax according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Thai Revenue Code, dated 20 November B.E. 2566 (2023); which adds additional information for clarity and explicitly imposes taxes on foreign-sourced income brought into Thailand as of 2024, excluding income generated before 1 January 2024. This clarification implies that only income generated outside Thailand as of 1 January 2024 and brought into Thailand as of the same date will be subject to taxation. In summary, individuals with foreign-sourced income in previous tax years resulting from work or business conducted abroad, or from possessing assets overseas, will be liable to Thai income tax only when both of the following conditions are met:

1. Must be resident in Thailand for one or more periods totaling at least 180 days in the tax year of 1 January 2024 to 31 December 2024; and
2. The foreign-sourced income must be brought into Thailand as of 2024, regardless of whether or not such income is brought into Thailand in the same tax year as the year in which such income is received, e.g. if income is received in 2024 and brought into Thailand in the same tax year, or received in 2024 but bought into Thailand in the following tax year.

In this regard, the amendment of Revenue Department Order No. Por. 161/2566 by Revenue Department Order No. Por. 162/2566 implies that the taxation for foreign-sourced income before 2024 will still follow the previous interpretation principle, which is that tax liability for foreign-sourced income applies only if the person resided in Thailand prior to 2024 and brought such foreign-sourced income into Thailand within the same tax year it was earned. Hence, there will be a duty to pay income tax according to the Thai Revenue Code; if there was income from foreign sources earned in 2023 and brought into Thailand within 2023, tax is payable for the foreign-sourced income. However, regarding foreign-sourced income as of 2024, if it is brought into Thailand as of 2024, it will be subject to personal income tax according to Section 41, paragraph two of the Thai Revenue Code."

Hands up any members who just arrived here in 2024.

https://www.nishimura.com/en/knowledge/ ... thailand_2

[anefarious1]

That source is a confusing mess. Mazars sums it up well "By virtue of this DI Paw. 162, Thai tax residents will not be required to include their foreign-sourced income earned before 1 January 2024 in their personal income tax returns, even if such income will be brought into Thailand from 1 January 2024 onwards."

[pipoz4444]

Carry on the Plane, from where you depart, is rarely searched for cash in that other Country. You could have a large stash in that carry on backpack.

When arriving in Thailand, I have never had my Carry On - Off backpack or small suitcase checked, in the past 25 years (and that is a lot of trips), when walking out through Customs at Suvarnabhumi. You could have gold bars stashed in your backpack an not be pulled aside, as most times the guys and girls by the X Ray machine are on the mobile phones or eating.

Long and short of it is, you can walk into Thailand with just about as much as you need for whatever, certainly more than enough for one year, until your next trip out.

pipoz4444

[FrazeeDK]

but.. do you want to take that chance.. Carrying over $10,000 out of the US without declaring it can make it subject to confiscation. Coming into Thailand with over the maximum allowed could also get your money confiscated. Good luck getting it back... While the chance of this happening is probably pretty low, it still exists.

[glalt]

Have never been asked for id when changing money
Maybe things have or will change

Money changers in Pattaya wanted to see passports. Some forex booths had photocopies posted on the walls of the passports of those who had defrauded them, passed fake notes, etc..

We're not in sleepy old Thailand any more, Toto.

At one time I had quite a few US dollars that the bank would not accept because of piddly little problems. My girlfriend at the time asked me if I wanted her to exchange them. Of course I told her to go ahead. They accepted every bill and even got a much better rate than from the bank.

[jackspratt]

Has anyone else received this email from Kasikorn?

The second and third forms mentioned appear to apply only to US citizens, and the first one I am still getting my head around.

Dear Valued Customer,

We, KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED, would like to express our sincere gratitude for entrusting us in providing you our products and/or services. As part of Thailand’s participation in the Multilateral Competent Authority Agreement on the Automatic Exchange of Financial Account Information (MCAA CRS), financial institutions are obligated to submit certain information to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, in accordance with the Emergency Decree on Exchange of Information for Compliance with International Agreements on Taxation, B.E. 2566 (2023) and related regulations (hereinafter collectively referred to as the “CRS”).
The CRS aims to combat tax evasion by individuals residing outside Thailand and to ensure compliance with international taxation standards. In light of these requirements, we kindly request your cooperation in completing the following steps:
1. complete and sign the attached forms, which include:
1.1 FATCA/CRS Individual Self-Certification,
1.2 IRS Form W-9 (if applicable), and
1.3 IRS Form W-8BEN (if applicable);
2. provide a certified true copy of your passport; and
3. return the completed forms and document(s) abovementioned to us by email at K-CustomerFATCACRSUpdate@kasikornbank.com no later than December 20, 2024.
We sincerely appreciate your prompt attention to this matter and apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. If you have already completed these actions or your information has already been up-to-date, please kindly disregard this request.
Should you have any questions or require clarification regarding the CRS or how it applies to your specific situation, please consult with your legal or tax advisor. You may also refer to the Revenue Department, Ministry of Finance, for further guidance. Please note that KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED does not provide you any tax or legal advice, and we shall not be held liable for any damages, whether direct or indirect, arising from your use of or reliance on any information provided by us related to CRS or taxation.
If you have any questions or require any assistance, please do not hesitate to contact K-Contact Center at Tel: 02-888-8888, ext. 876.
Please be informed that, in accordance with our policy, none of your personal information shall be requested via telephone or SMS.


Best regards,
KASIKORNBANK PUBLIC COMPANY LIMITED

[AlexO]

Sounds like a scam.

[Stantheman]

Sounds like a scam.

Why would you call it a scam, the bank is only doing as directed by Thai govt. The forms are only the Thai govt to comply with the international agreement. Looks like first for them to know your primary taxing country and second for those who might need a U.S. tax id, third for those who might have taxable income from U.S. but are not citizen or legal resident with U.S. income

[Bandung_Dero]

Has anyone else received this email from Kasikorn?

No. I think I would be calling the bank to see if it is a legitimate request. They should already have a copy of your passport from when you opened the account (maybe expired but should prove your nationality).

AND this

Please be informed that, in accordance with our policy, none of your personal information shall be requested via telephone or SMS.

So according to their policy email is secure???