TAX on Income from Abroad

[tamada]

Not burning any bridges

Just building some new ones /

Premature: Not sure, as my crystal ball will not show me how many years are left. But for sure the mobility clock is ticking (can feel it every day) and the number of years are slowly diminishing (one year at a time), so have decided to make the most what is left.

pipoz44444

I was referring to the bank account closing. They were reasonably easy to open here until about 5 years ago. However, I know a few older guys who really had to pull the pin here and go back home to UK and the US. They had closed their home bank accounts a long, long time ago when Thailand was their planned Nirvana. Opening a new one when you've been in absentia for several decades can be a challenge.

But totally agree on the "mobility clock" so happy trails while you're being a bit more nomadic.

[pipoz4444]

Hi T and I will retain Thailand as a base, just that I will spend some time elsewhere. Who knows I may still even apply for the Thai 12 Month Retirement Visa.

The one thing for sure is that we don't know what is around the corner once we approach or pass the 70 years of age, so best to keep all doors open.

All those sports we played when we were young and all the bones we broke at the time, start to come home to haunt you in the later years. Combine that with general aging and a bit of arthritis thrown in for good measure, and moving around is not as easy as it way 10 years ago.

Regards

pipoz444

[Declan MacPherson]

Interesting story from a friend who lives south of Phitsanulok.

He went to a local TRD office to get a TIN. No one else was there, so staff in the vicinity of his conversation were tuned in to his inquiry.

The interviewer checked his passport. The interviewer told him that he had a retirement visa and cannot work in Thailand. My friend was told he did not qualify.

My friend told them that he remitted pension every month various times through an ATM in Thailand. The interviewer told him that his home country currency doesn't count and that they are only interested in income from employment in Thailand and that he does not qualify for a TIN.

The staff in the vicinity nodded in agreement.

I can only deduce from this that different TRD offices will view this differently just as different immigration offices view situations differently. And of course, this is what is happening yesterday for him. It doesn't mean that it'll happen for anyone else.

[tamada]

Interesting story from a friend who lives south of Phitsanulok.

He went to a local TRD office to get a TIN. No one else was there, so staff in the vicinity of his conversation were tuned in to his inquiry.

The interviewer checked his passport. The interviewer told him that he had a retirement visa and cannot work in Thailand. My friend was told he did not qualify.

My friend told them that he remitted pension every month various times through an ATM in Thailand. The interviewer told him that his home country currency doesn't count and that they are only interested in income from employment in Thailand and that he does not qualify for a TIN.

The staff in the vicinity nodded in agreement.

I can only deduce from this that different TRD offices will view this differently just as different immigration offices view situations differently. And of course, this is what is happening yesterday for him. It doesn't mean that it'll happen for anyone else.

Similar to my experience when seeking a TIN here in Oodorn for my overseas bank's KYC rules. After zipping between two different offices, one which said "cannot" and the other that said "can", the 'boss' looked at my Ret Ext and said I pretty much the same as the P'lok desk jockey told your friend. I did persevere, but the woman's obfuscatory nature and attitude caused me to withdraw gracefully. You can't educate pork.

[Declan MacPherson]

Hi T and I will retain Thailand as a base, just that I will spend some time elsewhere. Who knows I may still even apply for the Thai 12 Month Retirement Visa.

The one thing for sure is that we don't know what is around the corner once we approach or pass the 70 years of age, so best to keep all doors open.

All those sports we played when we were young and all the bones we broke at the time, start to come home to haunt you in the later years. Combine that with general aging and a bit of arthritis thrown in for good measure, and moving around is not as easy as it way 10 years ago.

Regards

pipoz444

All the best to you, pipoz. Always do what's best for you.

[sometimewoodworker]

FWIW you will likely have a better outcome if you take in a bank statement of interest deductions and request a TIN to reclaim the over paid amounts.

The fact that you may have no intention to file a tax return and only want the TIN for foreign banks should of course not be mentioned.

[tamada]

FWIW you will likely have a better outcome if you take in a bank statement of interest deductions and request a TIN to reclaim the over paid amounts.

The fact that you may have no intention to file a tax return and only want the TIN for foreign banks should of course not be mentioned.

Sounds a reasonable approach. However, before my tactical withdrawal, the silly boss at the office I attended had insisted that if I did need a TIN, the form could only be completed and filed at her office. Only after being assessed for and paying any tax, would they tell me what my TIN was.

They're making it up. Thai bureaucracy can be good at that, especially when they are lazy, ignorant or both.

[sometimewoodworker]

FWIW you will likely have a better outcome if you take in a bank statement of interest deductions and request a TIN to reclaim the over paid amounts.

The fact that you may have no intention to file a tax return and only want the TIN for foreign banks should of course not be mentioned.

Sounds a reasonable approach. However, before my tactical withdrawal, the silly boss at the office I attended had insisted that if I did need a TIN, the form could only be completed and filed at her office. Only after being assessed for and paying any tax, would they tell me what my TIN was.

They're making it up. Thai bureaucracy can be good at that, especially when they are lazy, ignorant or both.

I think you are incorrect. As I received my TIN after doing exactly the procedure you were advised you needed to do. So the process is likely standard. FWIW I received a cheque for a little over 300 baht

[tamada]

FWIW you will likely have a better outcome if you take in a bank statement of interest deductions and request a TIN to reclaim the over paid amounts.

The fact that you may have no intention to file a tax return and only want the TIN for foreign banks should of course not be mentioned.

Sounds a reasonable approach. However, before my tactical withdrawal, the silly boss at the office I attended had insisted that if I did need a TIN, the form could only be completed and filed at her office. Only after being assessed for and paying any tax, would they tell me what my TIN was.

They're making it up. Thai bureaucracy can be good at that, especially when they are lazy, ignorant or both.

I think you are incorrect. As I received my TIN after doing exactly the procedure you were advised you needed to do. So the process is likely standard. FWIW I received a cheque for a little over 300 baht

You can think what you like. There's no need for any form to be filled in at their office. My New Zealand friend obtained his TIN from the Pattaya revenue office (where he is domiciled), with no need to show anything more than his passport, bank statement and the filing paperwork that he completed at home before attending the office.

It's also been reported that it's easier in Bangkok where they are less ignorant of their own rules and regulations while being more familiar with dealing with foreigners.

TiT
YMMV
LOL

[noosard]

Recent discussions around a possible negative income tax (NIT) system in Thailand have caused ripples of concern among expatriate communities. However, it's essential to understand that these developments are still in the discussion phase, and any legislative changes are not imminent.

Deputy Finance Minister Julapun Amornvivat, a supporter of NIT, has indicated that formal implementation might be several years away. At present, there is no concrete framework or schedule for its introduction, warranting a cautious approach rather than alarm.
For expatriates in Thailand, the implications of a potential NIT system remain entirely speculative. The "crunch time," when such policies may come into effect, is still several years off, and any impacts on expats, if they occur, are yet to be determined.
Until more concrete information emerges, expatriates should remain observant but not overly concerned about these developments.

[Doodoo]

Noosard
"Recent discussions " Who was discussing, when were they discussing etc

[tamada]

Noosard
"Recent discussions " Who was discussing, when were they discussing etc

The government.

Recently.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/ ... tax-476439

Giyf

[tamada]

Per the article linked in the previous post, "Crunch time is years ahead. If ever."

[tamada]

Any foreigners living here who are 70 and older shouldn't be worrying about paying income tax here. It's akin to worrying about climate alarmism.

[tamada]

This may be a point of interest for some. It's been assumed that a foreigner can use their 13-digit personal ID number (PIN) that's in their Yellow Book, as their Thailand Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) same as Thai citizens can. According to updated sources, this is not the case for foreigners, and they will be issued a 10-digit TIN by the Revenue Department instead.

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/tax-id ... -thailand/

Don't shoot the messenger.

Ta
tam

[sometimewoodworker]

This may be a point of interest for some. It's been assumed that a foreigner can use their 13-digit personal ID number (PIN) that's in their Yellow Book, as their Thailand Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) same as Thai citizens can. According to updated sources, this is not the case for foreigners, and they will be issued a 10-digit TIN by the Revenue Department instead.

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/tax-id ... -thailand/

Don't shoot the messenger.

Ta
tam

Do not believe that anything that is in that article is categorically true. It absolutely is not TIT YMMV.
The requirement for ALL foreigners to have a if they have any income TIN is bogus, many offices will NOT issue one unless you are reclaiming tax paid or paying tax. This is in direct contradiction to the letter of the tax law.
Until it is activated in the TRD database a foreigners id number is not their TIN Many TRD offices are activating the pink card/yellow book 13 digit number, some are not.

[Brian Davis]

Just to say that only the other day, the young man in the main Udon Revenue Office (and perhaps the only officer with reasonable English!) gave me to understand that my pink ID card could be used for tax return purposes. I may be mistaken here, but my understanding and surprise was that the National ID number and TIN number are the same. He actually took the pink card and went to the computer. Whether he was checking the validity of the card, or activating the number on the TRD database at this time, I don't know.
Maybe someone can explain the process. If you are eligible to pay tax, do you have to 'pay up' first and then reclaim it subsequently under DTA? Again, the Udon guy suggested there was another building where the latter was dealt with.

[Stantheman]

This was a change to mandatory reason transferring funds to Thailand. Normally just selected Family Support, but now different options. This was for Bank of America

[sometimewoodworker]

Just to say that only the other day, the young man in the main Udon Revenue Office (and perhaps the only officer with reasonable English!) gave me to understand that my pink ID card could be used for tax return purposes. I may be mistaken here, but my understanding and surprise was that the National ID number and TIN number are the same. He actually took the pink card and went to the computer. Whether he was checking the validity of the card, or activating the number on the TRD database at this time, I don't know.
Maybe someone can explain the process. If you are eligible to pay tax, do you have to 'pay up' first and then reclaim it subsequently under DTA? Again, the Udon guy suggested there was another building where the latter was dealt with.

He was activating your Thai ID number on the TRD database.

The process of submitting a tax return is that.
1) you discover all the allowances you are eligible for on the Thai tax system plus the zero rated tax band, this is a variable number ranging from ฿210,000 to upwards of ฿600,000 (do not forget the Thai bank withholding tax as a credit)
2)Then you calculate all your remittances
3) Then you decide if the remittances are assessable for Thai tax or not.
4) Then you calculate the tax you may have paid on the assessable remittances and add that as a virtual deduction from any Thai tax due
5) You then submit your return and either 1) get a refund 2) pay the amount of tax you have calculated or 3) do nothing and get nothing because you are not required to pay any tax.


TLDR you are responsible for calculating your tax liability, do not expect that a Thai tax official will understand the vagaries of your home tax system, the Thai tax office will assist you in completing your form there is absolutely no guarantee that they will know enough to reduce your tax to the minimum. It is also quite possible that they will not understand the English text of the DTA (FWIW many English native speakers have difficulty in understanding the DTA’s so its not surprising that a Thai official also has problems)

As you can see specially for most foreigners it is easy to make mistakes and pay too much or not enough.
There are tax specialists who will assist, the fees they charge are there for good reason. They maybe worthwhile. They usually start at about ฿7,000. Only you can judge your abilities and confidence in your knowledge of the tax laws.

Pay too much and it’s possible you can file an amended return and get a refund
Pay too little (or nothing) and there are penalties that depending on the individual case include heavy fines and can include being an involuntary guest in a government facility. However genuine mistakes may not even incur a fine, just payment of the missing tax.

[tamada]

Just to say that only the other day, the young man in the main Udon Revenue Office (and perhaps the only officer with reasonable English!) gave me to understand that my pink ID card could be used for tax return purposes. I may be mistaken here, but my understanding and surprise was that the National ID number and TIN number are the same. He actually took the pink card and went to the computer. Whether he was checking the validity of the card, or activating the number on the TRD database at this time, I don't know.
Maybe someone can explain the process. If you are eligible to pay tax, do you have to 'pay up' first and then reclaim it subsequently under DTA? Again, the Udon guy suggested there was another building where the latter was dealt with.

Which revenue office (street location) was this helpful young man working at?

My experience about eight months ago when seeking a Thai TIN for my foreign bank's tax compliance was challenging and ultimately unsuccessful.

This was at the Revenue Office located on Mukkha Montri a couple of blocks south of the Amphur's office beside Tungsri Muang, pictured below.
.

.
The responses varied between 'mai-loo' (downstairs left side office, to 'can' (upstairs left side office) to 'follow me' (to right hand office) to 'cannot' (upstairs at right hand office) to finally 'can but file first, be assessed and maybe pay before I give you TIN' (lady "boss" upstairs right hand office).