Baseball Rules

Post by **Kudjap or Bust** » October 16, 2007, 9:10 am

I know nothing of the rules of baseball,
Question:
If a ball is hit foul, hits a member of the crowd and bounces back to the guy trying to catch the ball is the batter out?

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » October 16, 2007, 9:29 am

This is a good question. On first glance, I was tempted to say that the batter would be out. However, once the ball touches the fan, I believe it would be ruled out of play just as if it had hit the ground, and the batter would live to see another pitch. Please correct me, anyone, if I am wrong (it would not be the first time).

Speaking of baseball, it is sad that the Yankees, Tigers/or White Sox are still not playing. But Colorado gives one hope for an interesting Series, in particular, since they have Jeff Francis, a Canadian, on the mound.

Post by **Kudjap or Bust** » October 16, 2007, 9:43 am

To give a possible answer to my own question, if the batter is out, I would wonder why the fans in the crowd don't hit/volley the ball back toward the catching outfielder rather than catching it to keep for themselves. Therefore I would guess the batter stays at bat.

Post by **BKKSTAN** » October 16, 2007, 1:30 pm

Kudjap or Bust wrote:To give a possible answer to my own question, if the batter is out, I would wonder why the fans in the crowd don't hit/volley the ball back toward the catching outfielder rather than catching it to keep for themselves. Therefore I would guess the batter stays at bat.

On a ball hit foul,the batter is still at bat unless the ball is caught while ''inplay'' by the opposing team player!

Colrado Rockies are the Natioanal League Champions,today finishing a 4 game sweep over the Arizona Diamondbacks with a 6-4 win!

They now wait to see who the American league Champions will be between the Cleveland Indians and the Boston Red Sox.Cleveland won the last game and lead the 7 game series,2 games to 1.

Post by **Pakawala** » October 16, 2007, 1:46 pm

C'mon guys... THE BALL IS FOUL. PERIOD. Consider this, the ball is popped up and lands on the roof of the dugout and is then caught... is the batter out - NO. It's a foul ball as soon as it hits the roof or in the case of the scene cited above, the fan in the stadium. The ONLY time a ball can be hit foul and remain in play is if it has not yet passed 1st or 3rd base, hits the ground outside the foul line then, due to spin on the ball, it crosses back onto the playing field before passing the base.

Geee, I said this with such 'authority' that I believe it MUST be true??

Anyone else?

Post by **BKKSTAN** » October 16, 2007, 1:57 pm

Pakawala wrote:C'mon guys... THE BALL IS FOUL. PERIOD. Consider this, the ball is popped up and lands on the roof of the dugout and is then caught... is the batter out - NO. It's a foul ball as soon as it hits the roof or in the case of the scene cited above, the fan in the stadium. The ONLY time a ball can be hit foul and remain in play is if it has not yet passed 1st or 3rd base, hits the ground outside the foul line then, due to spin on the ball, it crosses back onto the playing field before passing the base.

Geee, I said this with such 'authority' that I believe it MUST be true??

Anyone else?

If the ball comes back into fair ground,untouched, before reaching thr bag,it is a fair ball,not just a ball inplay!

A ball hit into the foul area (outside the first and third base lines) is still INPLAY until it hits the ground,a fan or a structure.If the opposing team player catches it in foul territory without it touching any of those 3,the batter is out!

Post by **Pakawala** » October 16, 2007, 2:14 pm

Well Stan, I guess I'll have to dig into the ol' rules book. I'm quite sure that a ball hit, say onto the base path, then spins back onto the infield, is still in play. I could be wrong of course. Will let you know what I find out.

Post by **Pakawala** » October 16, 2007, 2:48 pm

My deepest most sincere apologies to Stan... I had my situations mixed up

"If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base than THEN bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit." Quoted from MLB Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball).

Stan, I most humbly ask your indulgence in my stupidity.

Post by **jackspratt** » October 16, 2007, 3:03 pm

C'mon Stan - this will test you - 2 scenarios.

What is the call if the ball is hit in the air (line drive) past first base and still fair. It then glances the 1st base umpire who is standing in fair territory behind 1st base, and continues on into foul territory:

1. - after bouncing first in fair territory (ie hits the umpire, hits the ground, then rolls into foul territory)

2. - continues in the air into foul territory (ie hits the umpire, doesn't hit the ground until outside the 1st base line).

If you get them both right I will treat you to a years subscription to Al Jazeera TV (free to air edition)

Post by **Kudjap or Bust** » October 16, 2007, 3:15 pm

If the ball comes back into fair ground,untouched, before reaching thr bag,it is a fair ball,not just a ball inplay!

A ball hit into the foul area (outside the first and third base lines) is still INPLAY until it hits the ground,a fan or a structure.If the opposing team player catches it in foul territory without it touching any of those 3,the batter is out!

OK Thanx Stan theres my answer...........

Post by **BKKSTAN** » October 16, 2007, 3:23 pm

Pakawala wrote:My deepest most sincere apologies to Stan... I had my situations mixed up "If a fly ball lands on or beyond first or third base than THEN bounces to foul territory, it is a fair hit." Quoted from MLB Rule 2.00 (Fair Ball).

Stan, I most humbly ask your indulgence in my stupidity.

Correct!The problem with your description,before, was you were mixing up a ''fair ball'' with an ''inplay ball''!A ball is still inplay if it is a foul ball and has not touched the ground,a structure or a person in foul ground(including umpires)!

If the ball touches anything in fair territory (including umpires) it is a fair ball and the runners can advance!

If a ball bounces from fair territory to foul ground after passing 1rst and 3rd base bags,it is a fair ball!

If it hits in fair ground and goes into foul ground before it gets to first or third and stays in foul ground , it is a foul ball!But ,if it hits the ground fair,rolls out in foul ground and back into fair ground before being touched or touching something foul,it is a fair ball!

Is that clear as mud?

Post by **Galee** » October 16, 2007, 4:51 pm

I think I'm getting the hang of the rules of rounders, oops sorry, baseball. On the whole an entertaining sport, shame about all the ads.
Can you guys clarify something for me. Is spitting compulsery? Of the games I've watched there seems to be a seperate competion to see who can make the biggest puddle of spital outside the ball pen!! Looks disgusting.

Post by **Roy** » October 16, 2007, 7:29 pm

So can a "Fair ball" be an "implay ball" while in "Fair territory"? What if it hits a hot dog and comes off covered in ketchup and mustard, would this be deemed a culinary but fair ball?

Post by **farang** » October 16, 2007, 7:36 pm

Roy ,i think they call that "condiment abuse"

Post by **jackspratt** » October 16, 2007, 8:01 pm

Galee wrote:I think I'm getting the hang of the rules of rounders, oops sorry, baseball. On the whole an entertaining sport, shame about all the ads.

Galee, by definition, on the whole is always an entertaining sport. And long may it be so!

Post by **keg** » October 16, 2007, 9:36 pm

I think the above descriptions of a fair and foul balls is accurate. The original quesition pertained to a foul ball and what happened if a fan touched it. If the ball was foul and on the ground prior to the fan touching it, no harm no foul, just a routine foul ball and counts a strike against the batter (if less then 2 strikes on the batter before hitting the ball), and no runners advance. If the foul ball is in the air and a fan leans in play and touches it, it is considered fan interference and declared a dead ball and the fielder can not then catch it. It is charged a strike to the batter the same as the ground foul ball. Usually fans give their teams the home field advantage and do not interfere with their own teams fielders but will interfere with the visiting teams fielders, that is with the exception of the Cubs in the playoffs. The only time that fans touching the ball has consequences is when it is touched after landing fair first in the previously prescribed manner by the posts above. If the ball is hit on the ground fair then bounces into the stands in fair or foul territory, or is hit in the air to the home run fence, it is declared fan interference if the fan leans into the playing field and touches the ball and/or interferes with the player . The ball is declared dead as soon as the fan interferes and the batter is awarded a ground rule double, runners on base advance 2 bases as well. It is a judgement call by the umpire as to whether or not the fan interfered and if they leaned into the fiield of play. This came into play in the Yankees/Red Sox seires in the past on national TV when the kid with a Yankees hat, but at Boston, leaned in and cought a home run ball by a Yankee. The umpires ruled it a homerun but replays showed it would have hit the wall below the yellow line on top the fence and bounce back in play. It should have been fan interference and the batter awarded a ground rule double, but it is a judgement call. As soon as any ball hits anything out of play it is considered a dead ball. The only time a fan comes into question is if they lean into what the umpire judges to be the field of play. Players can dive into the stands to make catches before the ball hits anything but fans can't be called for interference 3 rows back.

Sorry to ramble a bit there.

Post by **VicVegas** » October 18, 2007, 1:00 am

keg wrote:It is a judgement call by the umpire as to whether or not the fan interfered and if they leaned into the fiield of play. This came into play in the Yankees/Red Sox seires in the past on national TV when the kid with a Yankees hat, but at Boston, leaned in and cought a home run ball by a Yankee. The umpires ruled it a homerun but replays showed it would have hit the wall below the yellow line on top the fence and bounce back in play. It should have been fan interference and the batter awarded a ground rule double, but it is a judgement call.

Have to correct you keg. The incident you speak up happened in Yankee Stadium during game one of the 1996 ALCS between the Yankees and the Orioles. It did not involve the Red Sox. I'll let Wikipedia take over from here:

On October 9, 1996, the Yankees trailed the Orioles 4-3 in the bottom of the eighth inning when shortstop Derek Jeter hit a deep fly ball to right field. Right fielder Tony Tarasco moved near the fence and appeared "to draw a bead on the ball" when the then-12 year old Jeffrey Maier reached over the fence separating the stands and the field of play 9 feet below and deflected the ball into the stands. While baseball fans are permitted to catch (and keep) balls hit into the stands, if "a spectator reaches out of the stands, or goes on the playing field, and touches a live ball" spectator interference is to be called.

Right field umpire Rich Garcia immediately ruled the play a home run, tying the game at 4-4, despite the protest of Tarasco and Orioles manager Davey Johnson. The Yankees would win the game in the eleventh inning on Bernie Williams' walk-off home run. The Orioles maintained their protest of the Maier play after the conclusion of the game, but their protest was denied by American League President Gene Budig because judgment calls cannot be protested. After viewing the replay, Garcia admitted that there was spectator interference, though he maintained the ball was not catchable. Garcia's contention that the ball was not catchable has been disputed. Had Garcia ruled it spectator interference, he would have then used his own judgement to determine what the most likely outcome of the play would be--either an out or awarding Jeter a given number of bases.

The Yankees went on to win the series against Baltimore, four games to one, as well as the World Series against the Atlanta Braves. As a result of the play, Yankee Stadium now has a railing on top of the right field wall to prevent fans from reaching over it.

Post by **keg** » October 18, 2007, 8:34 pm

VicVegas,

Thanks for the correction as the incident I was speaking about was the same one described in your post.

Keg

Post by **Kudjap or Bust** » October 25, 2007, 9:23 am

Another basball question, why is a strikeout represented by a 'K'?

As you can probably tell I'm kinda drawn to baseball and the World Series at present...

Post by **BKKSTAN** » October 25, 2007, 10:10 am

You are here: Experts > Games > Trivia > Baseball Trivia (General) > The symbol K for strikeout

Topic: Baseball Trivia (General)

Expert: Steve L
Date: 3/22/2005
Subject: The symbol K for strikeout

Question
Hello and thank you for your time,
Would you kindly tell me how long the K has been used as a symbol for a strikeout when scoring a baseball? A friend suggested that the K represented Koufax and began to be used at Shea Stadium when he was pitching. I insisted that the use of K went way back further than the 1960's.
Also, when did fans begin the practice of draping K posters for all to see, each time a pitcher made a strike out?
Thanks so much, Carol

Answer
Koufax's name will always be synonymous with "strikeouts," but the use of "K" for strikeout goes back much further

Henry Chadwick, one of the first newspaper journalists to take a literary interest in baseball, built upon a scoring technique devised by fellow New York journalist M. J. Kelly. "Chadwick created a minutely detailed scorecard so he would have a point of reference and recollection when he wrote his articles about the game."

Chadwick invented the modern boxscore back in the 1860s.

Chadwick also invented the system we use to indicate fielders (pitcher=1, shortstop=6, right field=9, etc.), and the abbreviations we use for events (HR, HBP, BB, so on).

Chadwick needed "S" for sacrifice, so he chose K for strikeout - K being the last letter of "struck," which was then in more common use than the term "strikeout."

Some people carry it further, using a K for a swinging strikeout, and a backward K for being caught looking. Some folks go with the more intuitive "SO," but this creates confusion with the abbreviation for "shutout," so "K" has remained the abbreviation of choice.

I don't know when fans began draping K posters over the railing, but my guess would be that it started at Shea, where fans have always seemed more interested in posing for the tv cameras than in watching the action on the field.