These are some thoughts, not always totalling coherent, which I recently emailed my brother, which I thought may be of interest to you generally. My thinking often changes.
"I realise I often send you somewhat conflicting assessments about living here. Where to live, whether to buy or rent etc.
It is a subject with a great many pespectives, many of which can be very fluid.
For example, does one live in an expensive over-rated touristy location, where English is widely spoken and our dietary prefences more readily catered for, but where the people are less than sincere and as a farang you are constantly over-charged, and it is difficult to find somewhere to live that isn't noisy or expensive, but where there are many things to do. There is likely to be an airport nearby, but probably not a nearby visa run exit and re-entry point.
Or, do you live in a traditional Thai area, where you can become a part of the local community, live more of a low-key existence, maybe with a large garden/smallholding, maybe have real "Thai" friends, where the scenery can be great, where prices are low, but where you are miles from any entertainment, facilities or other English speakers, and not near an airport?
My thinking often switches from one to the other.
Living here in Udon can combine both, in that you can live in a more traditional Thai town, but which still offers better nightlife and interaction through shops, restaurants, facilities with signs in English and English speakers, (sometimes even including municipal admin depts), than one could hope for in many normal thai towns or cities, because there are many farangs here. We are effectively catered for better in terms of things being in English language, like municipal buildings, menus, hospital admins, as well as more people speak English. There is also a good road network and an airport, though not yet an International airport. Though for me Udon is still too big and busy. The trade off is the facilities and nightlife etc.
In terms of where we actually live, things can change very rapidly. One week it can be a nice quiet house, the next week noisy neighbours can arrive, neighbourhoods rapidly acquire dogs, known as Soi dogs, which roam around routing out rubbish bins, intimidating people, barking and fighting all night. New housing developments or roads can start construction nearby, changing your ability to live a quiet life, to readily obtain water, or smothering everything with dust on a daily basis. There can even be governmental policy changes, which can make living here more difficult or complicated.
Your perceptions can quickly change because of these factors, and your relationships with wives and G/F's will change your moods and views. The latter can be very significant.
So I still maintain that it is best to assess things and make decisions slowly and to always maintain as much fluidity and flexibility as possible, in terms or where one lives, - in order to be able to respond to changes in circumstances or views.
Whilst I personally prefer the perceived security and stability of purchasing my home, which gives me somewhere more secure and stable to live and keep my possesssions, which I can more easily personalise and which provides a form of investment; here there is a very strong argument in favour of renting, simply because it allows greater flexibility for one to more readily and easily respond to changes referred to above and move somewhere else.
Here endeth my today's thoughts."
Where to live
Good thoughts; I have had similar, seems coherent to me.
The compromise is,perhaps, to live just outside Udon; 15 minutes in if I want the facilities, and still enjoy the benefits of the country and the local village atmosphere.
Given my absolute choice I would do this in Chaingmai, but her family links say in Udon, and I am not too unhappy about this.
After testing the waters, and renting is the wise advice for the unsure, I am getting (well having built) a house here too. I was not a renter in the UK, and I do not want that here. I want my (our) own place and the naysayers have their own experience in life. Nevertheless, I remain flexible and have a "bailout" parachute...but I do not think,and hope, I will need it
Go for it rj, heck you only live once!
John
The compromise is,perhaps, to live just outside Udon; 15 minutes in if I want the facilities, and still enjoy the benefits of the country and the local village atmosphere.
Given my absolute choice I would do this in Chaingmai, but her family links say in Udon, and I am not too unhappy about this.
After testing the waters, and renting is the wise advice for the unsure, I am getting (well having built) a house here too. I was not a renter in the UK, and I do not want that here. I want my (our) own place and the naysayers have their own experience in life. Nevertheless, I remain flexible and have a "bailout" parachute...but I do not think,and hope, I will need it
Go for it rj, heck you only live once!
John
Last edited by yorkman on December 8, 2005, 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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valentine
Yes I would prefer to rent, did so for 2 years before being persuaded to buy by my wifes logic.That was 2 fold.
1) what happens to me if you die, I don't have big money every month to pay the rent?
2) Rent money is dead and gone but if you pay a bank loan on a house, it is a form of accumalating savings, and properly insured will be mine to live in for ever.
As usual, her logic overcame my reasoning.!!
1) what happens to me if you die, I don't have big money every month to pay the rent?
2) Rent money is dead and gone but if you pay a bank loan on a house, it is a form of accumalating savings, and properly insured will be mine to live in for ever.
As usual, her logic overcame my reasoning.!!
Well, I'm not going to rent after I move there permanently. My family considers their home also my home so I have that going for me. Also, Waen and I have the farm that we bought and while back and when I am there for Dec/Jan we are going to do some landfill for the building site and I am going to be working hard on that wall that I keep getting reminded about. I really don't mind this as I like our village and can see spending my life there. Originally I was raised on a dirt road in rural North Carolina and grew up more isolated that our village before learning the 3 "r's" in school. Reading, Riting, and the Road to Virginia.
We are not going to build for 2 or 3 years from now and in the mean time when ever we visit we stay with the rest of the family. I would prefer a little more privacy for the intimate moments in our lives but I am getting used to everyone knowing what we are up to as they all just consider it a natural part of life and not needing mentioning other than my wifes mother congratulating us on trying to make baby last night. That woman wants a Thai/falang baby to raise so much she can't stand it. I think that she probably feels that it would cement me more into the family and thus provide more security for them. I just wish that I could get her to understand that I'm not going anywhere with or without a baby. Actually, I think that if my wife tossed me off I would still stay with the family if they would let me and I'm sure that they would. I hope that I am mistaken but I wouldn't be surprised if we split up for them to tell me to stay and for her to leave if someone had to go. I really like these people as much as anyone I have ever known. If Waen wasn't my best friend her brother certainly would be.
I leave for Udon in 8 days
and stay until the first of Feb.
We are not going to build for 2 or 3 years from now and in the mean time when ever we visit we stay with the rest of the family. I would prefer a little more privacy for the intimate moments in our lives but I am getting used to everyone knowing what we are up to as they all just consider it a natural part of life and not needing mentioning other than my wifes mother congratulating us on trying to make baby last night. That woman wants a Thai/falang baby to raise so much she can't stand it. I think that she probably feels that it would cement me more into the family and thus provide more security for them. I just wish that I could get her to understand that I'm not going anywhere with or without a baby. Actually, I think that if my wife tossed me off I would still stay with the family if they would let me and I'm sure that they would. I hope that I am mistaken but I wouldn't be surprised if we split up for them to tell me to stay and for her to leave if someone had to go. I really like these people as much as anyone I have ever known. If Waen wasn't my best friend her brother certainly would be.
I leave for Udon in 8 days
and stay until the first of Feb.Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck
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valentine
Getting Tossed Off
Yeah, Val, I noted it with humour myself! But since the concept applied in both respects--i.e., this second interpretation would also result in no children--I left it alone! The statement worked whichever way it was interpreted!
Garnet & Jack
I usually don't use that expression and do not know where it came from. I must have not re read my post a second time like I usually do before pressing the submit button. However I know what you mean. Sort of like the dual meanings that we each put on "come by and wake me up in the morning" or "come by and knock me up" which in USA if a woman says this to you, you look forward to the visit.
As for Garnets comment concerning procreation, I found this in todays online Bangkok Post
Why Isan's dip in birth rate matters
A rapid change in demographics in Isan is occurring which will seriously affect the future of Thailand, yet planners and the government have not studied or discussed this important issue.
The northeast region, known as Isan, has traditionally been a source of cheap labour for the rest of the country. Mainly made up of rice farmers who attempt to eke out a living from the soil, Isan people have their own Lao language, eat sticky rice and a predominantly vegetarian diet and have their own culture and values.
In the past they have had large families, mainly due to the lack of education and money to buy, and resistance to, contraceptives. All daughters were sold into marriage to raise much-needed cash, many against their wishes but they too soon became mothers continuing the circle.
Of the many children, few if any remained in Isan on the land while most were sent to Bangkok and elsewhere to work. With little education, they have provided the country with the hard-working legs that have enabled Thailand to run up the list of developing countries. Isan people are Bangkok's taxi drivers, building labourers, street sweepers, factory workers, prostitutes and waitresses, doing the tasks few city dwellers would. But while the generation of now 50- to 60-year-olds had six to 10 children, today's parental generation in Isan is having one and two child families. A recent survey of an Isan school showed three child families were rare, with one child being the norm. Gin Diane, the contraceptive pill, is now widely used and with other family members sending back earnings from their jobs elsewhere, it is affordable and preferable than another mouth to feed.
Those that were sent away to work have now established themselves elsewhere, with their children having better education and living standards and now becoming city dwellers with the expectations that brings. Few are returning to Isan to live the life of a poor farmer and as the aged parents pass away only now are we starting to see the family home on stilts unoccupied and the family's rice plot unused.
The acceptability of homosexuality in society has made considerable inroads in Isan as well. Reports in the Khon Kaen media last month made much of a two-child parent in Ban Fung district of Khon Kaen province whose daughter was a "Tom", the euphemism for a male-looking partner in a lesbian partnership, while her son was a katoey.
In just one generation, the demographics in Isan have gone from six to 10 child families to one and two child families. And some of these, who are ready to be the next parents, are electing not to go down that path. The long-held belief that Isan will supply our country with all of our manual labour requirements is disappearing in just one generation. The repercussions both within Isan and beyond is enormous.
As the older farming community literally dies out, rice farms will become larger as neighbours, or possibly companies, buy up idle plots. Farms will then have to become more mechanised and to afford this, more efficient. Rice growing could even be replaced with better cash crops.
Already building sites and factories on the eastern seaboard are being caught illegally hiring Cambodians but perhaps they have no choice.
Just how serious this de-population problem is, nobody knows. But it is time to begin addressing the issue and plan ahead before the country is caught with a severe labour shortage.
The choices for lawmakers are many. Incentives could be given to Isan couples to procreate or employers could be encouraged to attract workers from Thailand's South. Otherwise laws need changing to permit great flexibility in importing foreign workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia. But most of all discussions and planning need to begin now if Thailand is to continue its climb towards developed status.
As for Garnets comment concerning procreation, I found this in todays online Bangkok Post
Why Isan's dip in birth rate matters
A rapid change in demographics in Isan is occurring which will seriously affect the future of Thailand, yet planners and the government have not studied or discussed this important issue.
The northeast region, known as Isan, has traditionally been a source of cheap labour for the rest of the country. Mainly made up of rice farmers who attempt to eke out a living from the soil, Isan people have their own Lao language, eat sticky rice and a predominantly vegetarian diet and have their own culture and values.
In the past they have had large families, mainly due to the lack of education and money to buy, and resistance to, contraceptives. All daughters were sold into marriage to raise much-needed cash, many against their wishes but they too soon became mothers continuing the circle.
Of the many children, few if any remained in Isan on the land while most were sent to Bangkok and elsewhere to work. With little education, they have provided the country with the hard-working legs that have enabled Thailand to run up the list of developing countries. Isan people are Bangkok's taxi drivers, building labourers, street sweepers, factory workers, prostitutes and waitresses, doing the tasks few city dwellers would. But while the generation of now 50- to 60-year-olds had six to 10 children, today's parental generation in Isan is having one and two child families. A recent survey of an Isan school showed three child families were rare, with one child being the norm. Gin Diane, the contraceptive pill, is now widely used and with other family members sending back earnings from their jobs elsewhere, it is affordable and preferable than another mouth to feed.
Those that were sent away to work have now established themselves elsewhere, with their children having better education and living standards and now becoming city dwellers with the expectations that brings. Few are returning to Isan to live the life of a poor farmer and as the aged parents pass away only now are we starting to see the family home on stilts unoccupied and the family's rice plot unused.
The acceptability of homosexuality in society has made considerable inroads in Isan as well. Reports in the Khon Kaen media last month made much of a two-child parent in Ban Fung district of Khon Kaen province whose daughter was a "Tom", the euphemism for a male-looking partner in a lesbian partnership, while her son was a katoey.
In just one generation, the demographics in Isan have gone from six to 10 child families to one and two child families. And some of these, who are ready to be the next parents, are electing not to go down that path. The long-held belief that Isan will supply our country with all of our manual labour requirements is disappearing in just one generation. The repercussions both within Isan and beyond is enormous.
As the older farming community literally dies out, rice farms will become larger as neighbours, or possibly companies, buy up idle plots. Farms will then have to become more mechanised and to afford this, more efficient. Rice growing could even be replaced with better cash crops.
Already building sites and factories on the eastern seaboard are being caught illegally hiring Cambodians but perhaps they have no choice.
Just how serious this de-population problem is, nobody knows. But it is time to begin addressing the issue and plan ahead before the country is caught with a severe labour shortage.
The choices for lawmakers are many. Incentives could be given to Isan couples to procreate or employers could be encouraged to attract workers from Thailand's South. Otherwise laws need changing to permit great flexibility in importing foreign workers from Burma, Laos and Cambodia. But most of all discussions and planning need to begin now if Thailand is to continue its climb towards developed status.
Remember that not getting what you want is sometimes a wonderful stroke of luck