Question for the Isaan village dwellers
Nope, her uncle is now working in Germany (US bloke). He and his then Thai wife took her to the USA to live with them when she was nine . She stayed there until she was 18 (when she became the main cause for the marriage break up). When the wife found out, she filed for divorce and she was sent back to Udon. There she stayed until he managed to get her to Australia (paying for her studies), while working on her adoption papers. She told me her stay there was paid be her uncle but I had no idea he was much more than that. He knew about me, as she told him she would drop me as soon as I left for Europe and she'd be back with him as soon as he gets her the papers. He kept on supporting her for a while but then got fed up with the whole thing. Yet, he maintained he would get her the papers. He went on with the adoption and asked her to prematurely finish her studies and return to Udon in order to complete the procedure. But before that happened, she managed to get her a new boyfriend - another US bloke (on the same day I left - she's one swift cokie). They broke up a few months later. She immediately tried to come back to me. I kept silent, as I was already filled in on everything by her uncle/former boyfriend, who cracked her email, found out about the other guy and cracked his mail too. So, this was the time when I learned all this stuff she managed to keep away from me while she was with me. (She's one lucky b.tch I didn't find out while still with her). She got back together with her new boyfriend and they agreed she'd better go on with the adoption procedure, as it seemed as the easiest option at the time. Her uncle then dropped the whole procedure and introduced himself to the other guy, informing him he is little more than just an uncle. The guy immediately dropped her and she at the very moment called me, trying to get back to me (understand - trying to get to Europe). I led her on for a week or so, wanting to see how far she would go. Then I told her that I knew about everything and demanded she returns the stone. Unsuccessfully. She managed to convince the new ex-boyfriend to get back to her and he started working on the marriage visa. But he couldn't provide all the necessary papers as he was employed in Canada, got into some argument over the sin sot with her parents and finally realized what would happen to him if he actually married her. In the mean time, she was bragging to her family about her plans to drop him as soon as his money gets her through college in the USA and get somebody younger. So, this was over. Then she found another guy from the USA (on TLL), who was willing to marry her and pay the sin sot. He filed for the marriage visa application but the US embassy was already fed up with her and told her there were too many attempts on her part and that she is a persona non grata in the USA. Then I found out she still has it. As far as I know, she has several aunts and cousins married to farangs in the USA and Europe, getting divorced and re-marrying, fleecing the guys in the most brutal ways. That's considered OK by the family. What wouldn't be considered OK is if they found out what actually happened back there in the USA. They don't know. She'd be done and finished. I could use that as a threat, but I wouldn't be able to exercise it, as I promissed the guy I would never use this knowledge (kids from the first marriage involved). I don't make threats I can act upon. As I said, if she has it on at her work, she will hand it over to me there. If she doesn't, I have to get to her there, where she has it stored. Just don't wanna make too much mess of it. If I meet her outside of the village (and she doesn't have it on her) and try to talk some sense to her, she will try to screw me somehow. I know her well enough.Maligator wrote:Does her uncle live close by?
I might wanna take him to sooth the family so to say...
I would try to save the family's face at all costs..but understand your wanting it back..
How 'bout just waiting and meeting her at work instead of the house or in her Ville.
Hummm...gotta think more on this one.
Of course, I can use other measures to get it back. But that would be far more messy. I have no intention to make any mess, or make as little as possible. If I show up there, she will hand it over. The whole thing doesn't need to be longer than a couple of minutes. What explanation she gives then to her family (and the rest of the village - about 100 houses) is up to her.
She is a little f.cking monster. I am not the one to stop her in her ways or to make her life difficult (she will screw herself without anybody's help). But I want that thing back!
PS: My dubious motives (BKKSTAN)? I am pretty much reserved given the background.
If I were yoy I would turn my back on the whole situation and just let it go. Forget about pride and all the rest. As Stan has told you on a number of occasions, you dont have a leg to stand on in Thailand and will ultimately just dig yourself into a hole. Everyone from the village idiot to the highest law in the land will take her side against you. You are destined to drown in a sea of s#&t if you pursue this any further. I know some men refuse to back down when they consider themselves to be moraly correct, but it does'nt change a thing "TIT" full stop.
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beer monkey
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Can't really workout the full story and if you have even met the 'Family' in Thailand, but you want something back you gave her ..' a ring or something'(must of been mentioned in an earlier post)..and you sure she still has it ???
If you turn up at a village and into someones house or on their land/premises through the gates/door and they don't want you there and it turns nasty who really knows what she has told them, the local Headman/police will be round like a shot to remove you....not to sure what would happen if you went to her workplace, it might be the best chance to get her on her own and then she would have to be wearing the item.
When things turn bad they turn bad, and surprizing how the smiles dissappear in the 'Land 'O' Smiles'.
Remember you are an outsider,also she sounds a complicated girl.
Just my view taken from what i understand from what you've written.
(And a few paragraphs/spaces might be nice in your post, made my eye balls ache.....
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If you turn up at a village and into someones house or on their land/premises through the gates/door and they don't want you there and it turns nasty who really knows what she has told them, the local Headman/police will be round like a shot to remove you....not to sure what would happen if you went to her workplace, it might be the best chance to get her on her own and then she would have to be wearing the item.
When things turn bad they turn bad, and surprizing how the smiles dissappear in the 'Land 'O' Smiles'.
Remember you are an outsider,also she sounds a complicated girl.
Just my view taken from what i understand from what you've written.
(And a few paragraphs/spaces might be nice in your post, made my eye balls ache.....
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arjay
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To cut through all the verbiage here lynxlynx, it's obviously something you feel strongly about, have given considerable thought to, and have something of a plan. (I recollect you did explain the background at length on another thread.). So maybe it's work a try, - your call, as they say - but be careful and be prepared to walk away quickly if things get dangerous (and get on with the rest of your life).
I assume you will have your own transport to hand!
I assume you will have your own transport to hand!
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Irish Alan
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If I remember this ring is more of sentimental than monetary value... Sorry if that is inaccurate. Given that I have to sympathise with Lynx and I can understand his desire to chase it down. If I paid a huge amount of money to a girl, gave her gold and even bought a vehicle in her name and got turned over I would just accept my diploma from the Water Buffalo University and shuffle off back to Ireland with my tail between my legs.
However if for example I gave some girl my mother's engagement ring or the one my daughter gave me the rules would change and I would want it back at any cost.
Going to confront her in the village is the last thing you want to do. In the first place you need to find her and if you are seen arriving her mobile phone will ring and she will be gone hiding by the time you get to the door. IF you manage to get an answer you can bet she will have, "Gone the Bangkok to see sister she." IF she is there and you confront her then you better be prepared for Enter The Dragon II.
Ever tried to sneak up on a Thai girl and catch her up to no good? Jason Bourne would struggle to do it. Her place of employment could be the best option depending on what or where that is. If you make a scene and the cops show up you're fcuked as you will be the crazy fahlang making trouble! Smile a lot like you are collecting something from her, eliminate her avenues of escape and you make sure you have an escape plan. Plan for the best, prepare for the worst.
The Lynx is a stealthy hunter... This is what you need to become.
However if for example I gave some girl my mother's engagement ring or the one my daughter gave me the rules would change and I would want it back at any cost.
Going to confront her in the village is the last thing you want to do. In the first place you need to find her and if you are seen arriving her mobile phone will ring and she will be gone hiding by the time you get to the door. IF you manage to get an answer you can bet she will have, "Gone the Bangkok to see sister she." IF she is there and you confront her then you better be prepared for Enter The Dragon II.
Ever tried to sneak up on a Thai girl and catch her up to no good? Jason Bourne would struggle to do it. Her place of employment could be the best option depending on what or where that is. If you make a scene and the cops show up you're fcuked as you will be the crazy fahlang making trouble! Smile a lot like you are collecting something from her, eliminate her avenues of escape and you make sure you have an escape plan. Plan for the best, prepare for the worst.
The Lynx is a stealthy hunter... This is what you need to become.
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Irish Alan
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So your thinking youll go there and be safe on the word of the Woody Allen above????? are my assumptions correct here??lynxlynx wrote:
her uncle is now working in Germany (US bloke). He and his then Thai wife took her to the USA to live with them when she was nine . She stayed there until she was 18 (when she became the main cause for the marriage break up)
Lynxlynx, have you considered taking along an intermediary if you're so determined to make that trip to the village? If the ring has such great monetary or sentimental value then maybe a visit (or call) from a Thai lawyer, or another respected Thai citizen, could convince the young lady to release it to you for a negotiated, face-saving amount that might be agreeable to you both.
Crashing into the village and demanding the ring might work but, more likely, will bring you the kind of trouble that you probably don't need.
Me, I would probably chalk it up as another lesson learned at Water Buffalo University, Udon branch. Up2U, khap. Chok dee.
Crashing into the village and demanding the ring might work but, more likely, will bring you the kind of trouble that you probably don't need.
Me, I would probably chalk it up as another lesson learned at Water Buffalo University, Udon branch. Up2U, khap. Chok dee.
lynxlynx,
I can sympathize with your story but the part that doesn't make sense is that she would just hand the ring over to you when you show up, be it the village or at work. If she is the evil conniving woman you have laid her out as, it would seem to be completly out of character for her to lay down so easy. If you are so sure of her giving it over to you why not just call her and tell her you want it back and I'll meet you at XXXXXXX at this time to get it. If she won't agree to that I think you may be disappointed showing up unannounced.
I don't know where she works but showing up there with any kind of confrontation may go down worse then the village. There is a higher likely hood that the law or some type of security may become involved in the work place, and pretty quick at that and you are sure to lose then. I don't know many management types that would go for a public disruption at their place of business.
Sounds like a tough choice to make as walking away from something that means a lot to you is not easy either. Keep us informed how it goes as nobody really knows what will or can happen.
Keg
I can sympathize with your story but the part that doesn't make sense is that she would just hand the ring over to you when you show up, be it the village or at work. If she is the evil conniving woman you have laid her out as, it would seem to be completly out of character for her to lay down so easy. If you are so sure of her giving it over to you why not just call her and tell her you want it back and I'll meet you at XXXXXXX at this time to get it. If she won't agree to that I think you may be disappointed showing up unannounced.
I don't know where she works but showing up there with any kind of confrontation may go down worse then the village. There is a higher likely hood that the law or some type of security may become involved in the work place, and pretty quick at that and you are sure to lose then. I don't know many management types that would go for a public disruption at their place of business.
Sounds like a tough choice to make as walking away from something that means a lot to you is not easy either. Keep us informed how it goes as nobody really knows what will or can happen.
Keg
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beer monkey
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as we don't know where she works, if its a bank or office block could be more difficult , a restaurant or bar or market would be easier, if its of value maybe its been sold, if she just wants to play games and watch you suffer she probably won't give it back easily...don't reckon she reads this forum do ya lynxy...if so she might be one step ahead and she might be expecting you 'Mr Bond'......, just a thought.
who knows she may just hand back the item with a smile ...case closed ma'lud.
who knows she may just hand back the item with a smile ...case closed ma'lud.
I agree with this one...If the ring has such great monetary or sentimental value then maybe a visit (or call) from a Thai lawyer, or another respected Thai citizen, could convince the young lady to release it to you for a negotiated, face-saving amount that might be agreeable to you both.
As I remember this was a ring of great family history and therefore no measurable amount of value can be placed on it...
Hopefully she dosen't know that.
Maybe a bargain for some bhat is what she would listen and come to grips with.
Always keep an escape and evasion plan..
Lynxlynx,altough I don't think you are a troll,you don't seem to be listening to sound advice from seriously experienced guys.
Your initial question did not explain your reasons,therefore from the tone,I suggested your motives to be dubious.You have confirmed that with finally posting about the ring.
Then you go on to tell us that she will give it to you if you physically confront her which,to me.is suggesting that you will apply fear based extortion!
The chances of success with this approach is minimal and ripe for serious negative consequences because you are not superman,have NO power in Thailand,will find NO Thais to really support you against another Thai,right or wrong(what they say and will do are to different things)!You are not loved,liked or really a friend to any Thais in Thailand!
I understand and can empathize with you about the situation and the emotions you are feeling about the deception,but it is obvious to me and ,I believe,most of the other guys,that you are very naive about the Thai mentality and mindset and you are thinking that things are like the West!
Polehawk told you your best shot at recovering the ring,but it will cost you and is a 50/50 shot at best!If that doesn't work.my suggestion is ,let go,go through the grieving steps and process and get on with your life.Don't take any steps that are forceful confrontation in Thailand!!!!!!!!
Your initial question did not explain your reasons,therefore from the tone,I suggested your motives to be dubious.You have confirmed that with finally posting about the ring.
Then you go on to tell us that she will give it to you if you physically confront her which,to me.is suggesting that you will apply fear based extortion!
The chances of success with this approach is minimal and ripe for serious negative consequences because you are not superman,have NO power in Thailand,will find NO Thais to really support you against another Thai,right or wrong(what they say and will do are to different things)!You are not loved,liked or really a friend to any Thais in Thailand!
I understand and can empathize with you about the situation and the emotions you are feeling about the deception,but it is obvious to me and ,I believe,most of the other guys,that you are very naive about the Thai mentality and mindset and you are thinking that things are like the West!
Polehawk told you your best shot at recovering the ring,but it will cost you and is a 50/50 shot at best!If that doesn't work.my suggestion is ,let go,go through the grieving steps and process and get on with your life.Don't take any steps that are forceful confrontation in Thailand!!!!!!!!
It sounds as you may still have methods of contacting her. Telephone, email or perhaps an online chat. Using one or more of those, I can tell you what I would do rather than meet her unannounced.
I would nicely explain the ring is a family ring (or whatever the case may be), and ask her nicely if you can buy it back for whatever she could sell it for, or perhaps a bit more. An appraisal or two might be in order here. You and her could do it together. MONEY TALKS, especially here.
Trying to get it back in other ways could work, but if it goes sour, I doubt if you will ever get it back.
Whatever happens, you have learned a valuable lesson. Learn from that and move on.
I would nicely explain the ring is a family ring (or whatever the case may be), and ask her nicely if you can buy it back for whatever she could sell it for, or perhaps a bit more. An appraisal or two might be in order here. You and her could do it together. MONEY TALKS, especially here.
Trying to get it back in other ways could work, but if it goes sour, I doubt if you will ever get it back.
Whatever happens, you have learned a valuable lesson. Learn from that and move on.
Irish Alan: Yes, this is the very case when monetary considerations are not the issue.
Maligator: There are some issues that speak against intermediation as my initial step to resolve this issue. First of all, if you read a few submissions back, she claims to have sold it already. My previous attempts to recover it ended just on that premise. So, either she will keep on denying she is still in possesion of the stone (highly likely given how persisten they are in their lies even when confronted with evidence to the contrary), or she may sell it for real this time (which would be the worst outcome for me). Unfortunately, she is very well aware of the value (as this subject came up when the mail insurance cost issue was dealt with).
I have several options at my disposal to recover it:
a) I can threaten her to enlighten her family regarding her deeds back in the USA. This would be totally devastating to her standing within the family and I have little doubts she would deliver the stone once confronted with this option. But there is always the chance her greed would overcome her fear and as I mentioned previously, I have promissed to the provider of the information I will not take this route. I can, of course, play the bluff. But if there was no positive response on her side, then I would lose all my leverage by not following through.
b) I can wait for her to leave Thailand and extract it from her in SG or on her more or less ragular trips to see her aunts in Scandinavia. She took it with her to SG the first time, so there is a good chance she will take it abroad again. However, there is no such assurance.
c) I can pursue the legal option. But not in Thailand. I have enough email evidence to prove that this was not an unconditional gift and that her refusal to return after the breach of conditions attached constitues a criminal conduct (fraud). I was advised that I can sue her in the court of my little farangland, which will then officially turn it over to the Thai authorities. While this will achieve nothing at all in regard to any action taken within Thailand, it will achieve something very significant within the borders of the Schengen zone. As these legal claims against non-Schengen citizens are now shared in a common database, she might be refused entry into the Schengen zone until this issue has been resolved in the court of my farangland or by a mutual agreement. This process in neither fast nor cheap, but if exercised it would be very effective as following her aunts footsteps and marrying into Scandinavia seems to be her last life-line and the direction she wants to pursue.
d) I can re-establish our relationship and snap the stone the first chance I get and leave her behind. Time consuming, costly and I am not sure I could handle the pretending.
e) Intermediation (this can always be excerised once the other options were exhausted).
All of the above mentioned is either time consuming or costly and potentially messy.
BKKSTAN: Your judgement is incorrect. I am paying very close attention to what's been advised or suggested to me by the other forum members. And it has strenghtened my conviction that my sudden and unexpected visit in her village will put her in a very stressful situation. Neither she expects me, nor has she any idea I know she is still in possesion of the stone. That provides me with the leverage of surprise and time pressure, as she will given no room to manuevre. I am not an expert in the Isaan or for the matter Thai ways and mentality. And I am not pretending to be one. But I've learned enough about them and the country not to be forceful or confrontational in my conduct.
My visit in the village won't exceed 5 minutes, during which time she will be calmly explained that I know she has the stone and politely asked to return it on the spot. I don't need to fear any hostile reaction from the village folks as they will not have even the slightest clue of what's going on there nor the time to find out (unless they beat up every farang who enters the village). She will receive no threats from me and if she declines to hand it over, I will ask my chaufer to take me out of there at once. The very act of my sudden appearance will be the best implication of how far I am willing to go and nothing needs to be said. It will be in her own interest to get rid of me as quickly and quietly as possible. The notion of her alarming her parents or the villagers to harm me is preposterous. She doesn't want to stay in Thailand and she is very well aware of the fact that any violence inflicted upon me and provoked by her would be met with something much more severe as soon as she sticks her nose out of the country.
If this doesn't work, then I can excerise the other options as stated above. But if it does work, then it will be the fastest, least costly and least messy resolution as it provides me with a certain leverage I intend to utilize.
Maligator: There are some issues that speak against intermediation as my initial step to resolve this issue. First of all, if you read a few submissions back, she claims to have sold it already. My previous attempts to recover it ended just on that premise. So, either she will keep on denying she is still in possesion of the stone (highly likely given how persisten they are in their lies even when confronted with evidence to the contrary), or she may sell it for real this time (which would be the worst outcome for me). Unfortunately, she is very well aware of the value (as this subject came up when the mail insurance cost issue was dealt with).
I have several options at my disposal to recover it:
a) I can threaten her to enlighten her family regarding her deeds back in the USA. This would be totally devastating to her standing within the family and I have little doubts she would deliver the stone once confronted with this option. But there is always the chance her greed would overcome her fear and as I mentioned previously, I have promissed to the provider of the information I will not take this route. I can, of course, play the bluff. But if there was no positive response on her side, then I would lose all my leverage by not following through.
b) I can wait for her to leave Thailand and extract it from her in SG or on her more or less ragular trips to see her aunts in Scandinavia. She took it with her to SG the first time, so there is a good chance she will take it abroad again. However, there is no such assurance.
c) I can pursue the legal option. But not in Thailand. I have enough email evidence to prove that this was not an unconditional gift and that her refusal to return after the breach of conditions attached constitues a criminal conduct (fraud). I was advised that I can sue her in the court of my little farangland, which will then officially turn it over to the Thai authorities. While this will achieve nothing at all in regard to any action taken within Thailand, it will achieve something very significant within the borders of the Schengen zone. As these legal claims against non-Schengen citizens are now shared in a common database, she might be refused entry into the Schengen zone until this issue has been resolved in the court of my farangland or by a mutual agreement. This process in neither fast nor cheap, but if exercised it would be very effective as following her aunts footsteps and marrying into Scandinavia seems to be her last life-line and the direction she wants to pursue.
d) I can re-establish our relationship and snap the stone the first chance I get and leave her behind. Time consuming, costly and I am not sure I could handle the pretending.
e) Intermediation (this can always be excerised once the other options were exhausted).
All of the above mentioned is either time consuming or costly and potentially messy.
BKKSTAN: Your judgement is incorrect. I am paying very close attention to what's been advised or suggested to me by the other forum members. And it has strenghtened my conviction that my sudden and unexpected visit in her village will put her in a very stressful situation. Neither she expects me, nor has she any idea I know she is still in possesion of the stone. That provides me with the leverage of surprise and time pressure, as she will given no room to manuevre. I am not an expert in the Isaan or for the matter Thai ways and mentality. And I am not pretending to be one. But I've learned enough about them and the country not to be forceful or confrontational in my conduct.
My visit in the village won't exceed 5 minutes, during which time she will be calmly explained that I know she has the stone and politely asked to return it on the spot. I don't need to fear any hostile reaction from the village folks as they will not have even the slightest clue of what's going on there nor the time to find out (unless they beat up every farang who enters the village). She will receive no threats from me and if she declines to hand it over, I will ask my chaufer to take me out of there at once. The very act of my sudden appearance will be the best implication of how far I am willing to go and nothing needs to be said. It will be in her own interest to get rid of me as quickly and quietly as possible. The notion of her alarming her parents or the villagers to harm me is preposterous. She doesn't want to stay in Thailand and she is very well aware of the fact that any violence inflicted upon me and provoked by her would be met with something much more severe as soon as she sticks her nose out of the country.
If this doesn't work, then I can excerise the other options as stated above. But if it does work, then it will be the fastest, least costly and least messy resolution as it provides me with a certain leverage I intend to utilize.
That's what she told me and that's what I had believed until she visited our mutual friend (our former flatmate) in SG. She noticed the ring but made no comment to her in that regard. Instead, she sent me the pics she took of my ex in SG, where the ring is clearly visible.farang wrote:if its worth big money i bet she has sold it.
Easy. I keep all our email conversations regarding the ring, pictures of her with the ring on and I can have an affidavit of my SG friend and several of my Aussie friends who will testify in this reagard and in my favor. Enough for my farangland court ...farang wrote:how can you prove she had the stone ?