Marrying aThai Girl with an adopted child

Post by **747man** » March 15, 2008, 9:31 pm

beer monkey wrote:Must be a differant one,... he is not married.

O.K Then it could be his Mia Noi ??

Post by **Snowden** » March 16, 2008, 2:01 am

I'm trying to think of the circumstances under which a Thai woman would go through the time, paperwork, and expense of legally adopting her brother's child when the brother lives with her and am coming up with a blank. From what I know about Thais, particularly those living in small villages in Isaan, it just doesn't pencil. It almost certainly is not true.

I know a few things about Thais like I know the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Thais don't spend one Baht more than they absolutely have to spend, Also, Thais will procrastinate about having something done "officially" as long as they possibly can.

Those of us who have been here for a while usually don't reach this level of sophistication until at least our Sophomore year at WBU. Somchai mentioned that he was communicating by webcam so I will assume that he is still in England. When he flies over to Thailand, there'll be a big airport greeting followed by a few days of sightseeing. Then back up to the village to get all of the paperwork sorted out. Of course, the paperwork will not be sorted out. A discrepancy will emerge between names ID cards or house registrations or some such thing and the conversation will go something like this:

"The solicitor has told me that Om is not really your brother."
"No darling. I no lie you."
"Then who is he then?"
"He my brother same I tell before. He same same brother but different you know?"
"Know love I don't know. If he is not your brother than who is he?"
"He my brother this true but not same same brother. Momma Pappa not same same but he same my brother."

And so on. After a few days or weeks of this, the old Thai black magic will kick in at which point poor old Somchai, squirreled away in some village in Isaan, will raise the white flag.

"Right then love. I trust you so long as we can get the paper work for your visa ..."

Of course, a Thai women who has a boyfriend with whom she is having sexual relations, but not yet married, will often refer to him as her "brother" and not "boyfriend" or "husband" as a matter of custom. Thailand seems to have a way of lowering your standards like that.

Just my assessment though.

Post by **beer monkey** » March 16, 2008, 6:17 am

A fair assessment with some good points especially the first paragraph snowdon.

Post by **arjay** » March 16, 2008, 10:46 am

Agreed, the word "brother' or 'sister" is often used when they are referring to a good friend. They aren't even a blood relation.

I knew a lady who insisted that she lived with her brother and his wife, and it turned out to be her cousin and (maybe) his wife.

Post by **somchai** » March 16, 2008, 9:18 pm

Actually, i will give her first name [as its fairly common in Thai] its Rungnapa [ Rung] and her `brother's` is Kittipong, and they live in Kuddoo, Nonsang...... maybe someone knows something? but i do want to reiterate that i do trust her on this... but im deeply in Love with her, so the temptation is to want to believe her every word, but aware of my vulnerability due to this.

Post by **Snowden** » March 17, 2008, 3:32 am

I guess that I would ask, "Why do you trust her?" and "Why are you in love with her?"

Thais are generally very good at telling people what they want to hear. This is not necessarily to try and cheat them but, rather, is part of their way of keeping a peaceful and well-ordered society.

I ask the above questions because very few of us have much in common with our girlfriends or spouses. Their culture is very different from ours. There is a language barrier even if they can speak English fairly well. Their taste in music, movies, arts, and literature is completely different. In most cases, they are not interested in music, movies arts, and literature at all. Thais read the fewest books of any other country in Asia. And the big one, the relationship with the family is totally different.

Before you jump into the pool here, you better spend as much time as you think you need to get to know the waters a little. Then, spend twice as much time as that. This is one place where it is easier to jump in than it is to crawl out.

"Love" is kind of a meaningless word here. The romantic, chivalrous idea of love does not exist in Thai culture or society. A Thai woman tells you she "loves" you but it usually means that she thinks you can take care of her and her family financially. "Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent.

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » March 17, 2008, 3:58 am

Snowden wrote:I guess that I would ask, "Why do you trust her?" and "Why are you in love with her?"

Thais are generally very good at telling people what they want to hear. This is not necessarily to try and cheat them but, rather, is part of their way of keeping a peaceful and well-ordered society.

I ask the above questions because very few of us have much in common with our girlfriends or spouses. Their culture is very different from ours. There is a language barrier even if they can speak English fairly well. Their taste in music, movies, arts, and literature is completely different. In most cases, they are not interested in music, movies arts, and literature at all. Thais read the fewest books of any other country in Asia. And the big one, the relationship with the family is totally different.
Before you jump into the pool here, you better spend as much time as you think you need to get to know the waters a little. Then, spend twice as much time as that. This is one place where it is easier to jump in than it is to crawl out.

"Love" is kind of a meaningless word here. The romantic, chivalrous idea of love does not exist in Thai culture or society. A Thai woman tells you she "loves" you but it usually means that she thinks you can take care of her and her family financially. "Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent.

Someone else posted this type of material awhile back. His online name was wildcat or lynx or bobcat or something like that. Or maybe it was on Thai Visa.

Anyway, are you positive that Thais read less than Lao, Cambodians, Mongolians, and North Koreans? What are your sources for the information you use?

Are you 100% positive that '"Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent' in Thailand? Such statements leave little room for debate.

Are you 100% sure that Thais are not interested in music, movies, the arts and literature?

Do you have some special expertise/qualifications that permits you to have such a great understanding of Thai people and their habits and culture to be able to cast such a negative image on them?

Why would there be a 'language barrier' if they can speak English very well? Do you speak, read and write Thai very well? If you can, then it should be relatively easy to cross this barrier with understanding and compassion.

In the event, one does not want to say this is one of the sillier posts to appear on this forum but it does not do much to promote farangs as a very adaptable and intelligent lot.

Post by **papaguido** » March 17, 2008, 8:34 am

Tilokarat wrote:
Snowden wrote:I guess that I would ask, "Why do you trust her?" and "Why are you in love with her?"

Thais are generally very good at telling people what they want to hear. This is not necessarily to try and cheat them but, rather, is part of their way of keeping a peaceful and well-ordered society.

I ask the above questions because very few of us have much in common with our girlfriends or spouses. Their culture is very different from ours. There is a language barrier even if they can speak English fairly well. Their taste in music, movies, arts, and literature is completely different. In most cases, they are not interested in music, movies arts, and literature at all. Thais read the fewest books of any other country in Asia. And the big one, the relationship with the family is totally different.
Before you jump into the pool here, you better spend as much time as you think you need to get to know the waters a little. Then, spend twice as much time as that. This is one place where it is easier to jump in than it is to crawl out.

"Love" is kind of a meaningless word here. The romantic, chivalrous idea of love does not exist in Thai culture or society. A Thai woman tells you she "loves" you but it usually means that she thinks you can take care of her and her family financially. "Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent.
Someone else posted this type of material awhile back. His online name was wildcat or lynx or bobcat or something like that. Or maybe it was on Thai Visa.

Anyway, are you positive that Thais read less than Lao, Cambodians, Mongolians, and North Koreans? What are your sources for the information you use?

Are you 100% positive that '"Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent' in Thailand? Such statements leave little room for debate.

Are you 100% sure that Thais are not interested in music, movies, the arts and literature?

Do you have some special expertise/qualifications that permits you to have such a great understanding of Thai people and their habits and culture to be able to cast such a negative image on them?

Why would there be a 'language barrier' if they can speak English very well? Do you speak, read and write Thai very well? If you can, then it should be relatively easy to cross this barrier with understanding and compassion.

In the event, one does not want to say this is one of the sillier posts to appear on this forum but it does not do much to promote farangs as a very adaptable and intelligent lot.

Maybe you're thinking of Lynxlynx, the guy that was trying to recover his engagement ring and who hasn't been heard of since 24 Dec 07. Some possible similarities:

1. both users are hidden.
2. Lynxlynx posted "PS: I am actually enjoying the cold and snow ..." and "I am in my small farangland now, (skiing yesterday)" Hmm, Snowden

Maybe have to get BM on the case

Link to Lynxlynx profile:

http://www.udonmap.com/udonthaniforum/s ... 9&start=15

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » March 17, 2008, 8:46 am

Yes Lynx Lynx it is. He seemed to get angry about something and stopped posting. There was another poster around that time who was always belittling Thais too, but I think it was the Lynx who went on about the illiteracy and devious habits of Thai women.

Maybe Snowden is correct, but I would like to know his sources for the statements that he makes. He writes with such authority that one feels a bit shy questioning the points he is contributing. On the other hand, his truths just do not seem to jibe with reality at all times, all places and with most Thai women. I, for one, do not believe him any more than I believed the lynx.

Thanks papaguido

Post by **papaguido** » March 17, 2008, 9:05 am

Well LA did accuse him of being a TROLL

Post by **BKKSTAN** » March 17, 2008, 9:20 am

Tilokarat wrote:
Snowden wrote:I guess that I would ask, "Why do you trust her?" and "Why are you in love with her?"

Thais are generally very good at telling people what they want to hear. This is not necessarily to try and cheat them but, rather, is part of their way of keeping a peaceful and well-ordered society.

Stan says:I don't see anything wrong with this statement!Thais are generally a ''face saving'' and polite society!

I ask the above questions because very few of us have much in common with our girlfriends or spouses. Their culture is very different from ours. There is a language barrier even if they can speak English fairly well.

Stan says:English has an extended vocabulary compared to Thai .Thai vocabulary is very limited and there is many misunderstandings when communicating in English!

Their taste in music, movies, arts, and literature is completely different. In most cases, they are not interested in music, movies arts, and literature at all.

Stan says:At all,is the main problem in this statement!Thais have an interest in their own culture which promotes myths,superstitions,scarey and ''silly'' movies and a very poor education system that leaves them with a very small amount of worldly knowledge!

Thais read the fewest books of any other country in Asia.

Stan says:In Asia,is probably the error here!It has been well reported that Thais show very little interest in reading books for knowledge!

And the big one, the relationship with the family is totally different.

Stan says:I think he is speaking about the well publicized loyalty or demands by the family that finds the falang in a position of having to support the whole family!

you better spend as much time as you think you need to get to know the waters a little. Then, spend twice as much time as that. This is one place where it is easier to jump in than it is to crawl out.

"Love" is kind of a meaningless word here. The romantic, chivalrous idea of love does not exist in Thai culture or society. A Thai woman tells you she "loves" you but it usually means that she thinks you can take care of her and her family financially. "Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent.
Stan says:Again this is a very broad statement,but again I think he is referring to the relationships between older falangs and young Thai women!

Someone else posted this type of material awhile back. His online name was wildcat or lynx or bobcat or something like that. Or maybe it was on Thai Visa.

Anyway, are you positive that Thais read less than Lao, Cambodians, Mongolians, and North Koreans? What are your sources for the information you use?

Are you 100% positive that '"Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent' in Thailand? Such statements leave little room for debate.

Are you 100% sure that Thais are not interested in music, movies, the arts and literature?

Do you have some special expertise/qualifications that permits you to have such a great understanding of Thai people and their habits and culture to be able to cast such a negative image on them?

Why would there be a 'language barrier' if they can speak English very well? Do you speak, read and write Thai very well? If you can, then it should be relatively easy to cross this barrier with understanding and compassion.

In the event, one does not want to say this is one of the sillier posts to appear on this forum but it does not do much to promote farangs as a very adaptable and intelligent lot.

Tilokarat,I think you are being a bit defensive and harsh in this comment!

Although snowden uses the term generally in his post!100% is never the case in any situation,but in general terms I agree with what he said!And I agree that most falangs in Thailand have a difficult time adapting to Thai culture!If they use their intelligence,they will learn to understand it,accept the general truths and live with it!Besides,promoting falangs should not be the premise in this topic of discussion!Therefore there is no need for feeling defensive!

Post by **Laan Yaa Mo** » March 17, 2008, 9:47 am

Thanks Stan. The original post could have used your explanations to soften some of the harsher comments. But I still do not believe the posters comments are generally true.

The Thais have a way of using words that is remarkable and there are many 'hidden' meanings in their speech and writing, which leads to some misunderstandings when speaking Thai. You can see this in their poetry. Well, most poetry is replete with various interpretations. The Thai, Lao and khum muang (northern Thai_ languages are fascinating.

Sad to say but the education system in Canada has become very provincial and less than sophisticated. About a month ago I saw Grade 12 students colouring world maps for a project. The goal was to use at least 22 colours. I asked a few of the students to identify five countries other than Canada and the United States and very few could do it. Nice-looking maps though.

I think I got off topic, but the post just reminded me of something that I had read by an earlier poster and my comments were not really defensive. My response was meant to highlight what I think are incorrect, and somewhat offensive, comments.

But I get your point.

Post by **Snowden** » March 17, 2008, 3:42 pm

I appreciate that BKKSTAN has apparently read my postings here in an intelligent manner for I think that he has most accurately divined my intentions.

I have previously written the following which passages seem to be in issue:

"Thais are generally very good at telling people what they want to hear. This is not necessarily to try and cheat them but, rather, is part of their way of keeping a peaceful and well-ordered society."

* * *

""Love" is kind of a meaningless word here. The romantic, chivalrous idea of love does not exist in Thai culture or society. A Thai woman tells you she "loves" you but it usually means that she thinks you can take care of her and her family financially. "Love" as a romantic concept is nonexistent."

These are both judgment-neutral observations that I have had about Thai society and culture. They are both based on my own personal experience and observations as a permanent resident of Thailand. The second observation is supported by the historical record.

In fact, in the first passage I specifically said that it is not necessarily to try and cheat people. In this first passage, I was speaking about the behaviour of Thai people generally rather than specifically with regard to white foreigners. If a Thai person is upset, his friend will often console him by telling him whatever he wants to hear, even if it is not the truth. An employee or younger associate of a much respected person will often tell his superior something that is not true because he thinks it is what his superior wants to hear. Unlike foreigners, a Thai person would view this as quite positive as the younger associate is showing respect for his older and much respected colleague. You see, respect for elders and people in powerful positions is more important than what westerners might refer to as truth and integrity in Thailand.

My comments about the concept of "love" and "falling in love" as it is commonly understood by westerners were not intended as an insult to Thailand, its culture, or its people. Anybody who read my post carefully and who had knowledge about Thai society would understand that. The concept of "love" and "falling in love" did not reach full bloom, as it were, in western society until the Romantic Age, before which we viewed "love" and "relationships" in much the same way as the Thais do currently. It's a simple fact that Thai culture has never experienced an Age of Enlightenment or Romanticism in the same fashion as the west.

I am making a comment about how silly we westerners must appear to the average Thai person. We use words like "trust", "honesty", and "love" and they scratch their heads and wonder what in the devil are we talking about. It is perhaps an irony that some posters on this forum would accuse me of being bigoted and narrow-minded while themselves being unable to view my posts through any lens save the distorted lens of their own cultural biases, limitations. A Thai person would happily agree with much of what I have written here.

Back to Mr. Somchai, he has written that he trusts his girlfriend and loves her. That's fair enough. If he has lived in Thailand for many years and understands everything I have written and can still say that, I will say, "go in peace my friend." If he has merely visited Thailand a few times or has lived here as a part-time resident even if over many years, I will say, "you are leaping before you are looking." The swimming pool might be empty.

There used to be an American show called "The Twilight Zone." In one episode in particular, a young, fresh, pretty girl can be seen riding her horse along the beach. She encounters an older, haggard, crazy-looking women dressed in black rags riding towards her, screaming her name. The young girl turns her horse and races back to her home. Her parents are quite wealthy and the girl herself is caught between marrying a stable, solid man of whom her parents approve and a younger, reckless, James Dean-type of whom her parents disapprove. The scene with the horses repeats itself a few times, with the crazy-women in black chasing after the young girl but never quite catching her. It emerges that the crazy-woman in black is the girl's future. She marries the careless young man who becomes an alcoholic, squanders her parents' resources and allows the estate to fall into ruin. I consider myself to be that crazy-woman in black riding towards foreign newcomers, warning them of their future if they make the wrong decision.

Post by **Roadman** » March 18, 2008, 2:22 am

Somchai

If I was your g/f right now I would be telling you to go f... yourself.
I still am undecided as to which of the 2 reasons 4 which you need your parts fed 2 the ducks. For mentioning a partners name on a web board or not having the balls to reason the way through 4 yourself.

Scams are there, but if you listen to every nut case on a black horse scaring you off then you will never find out for yourselve. You have bypassed the bargirl scene so your chances are already greatly improved. Take your time (that is the biggest thing that thai's use - do likewise), think logically as a westerner and never commit financially more than you can afford to walk away from (that would change in time as even with the western version they have damaging claims after a few years ie- Heather Mills).

Your original request was documentation knowledge. Go to your embassy and request what papers they need. Getting these papers (and whether they exist or not now is neither here or there) together will give you the chance to learn and make your own decisions on those findings.

Only you can decide the trust worthiness of a potential mate. If that trust is already there for some months then that is a damn good start. And yes Thai women do look at you for a long time as the money machine - early on get them involved with budgeting etc. so that they understand its not a limitless supply and that they will need to contribute as well. Its not totally about money with thai women, its also face and standing. And these you learn are easy to give and can also give you great enjoyment. Their greatest need is suprising no different from yours or mine - security.

Post by **somchai** » March 18, 2008, 3:06 am

Roadman wrote:Somchai

If I was your g/f right now I would be telling you to go f... yourself.
I still am undecided as to which of the 2 reasons 4 which you need your parts fed 2 the ducks. For mentioning a partners name on a web board or not having the balls to reason the way through 4 yourself.

Scams are there, but if you listen to every nut case on a black horse scaring you off then you will never find out for yourselve. You have bypassed the bargirl scene so your chances are already greatly improved. Take your time (that is the biggest thing that thai's use - do likewise), think logically as a westerner and never commit financially more than you can afford to walk away from (that would change in time as even with the western version they have damaging claims after a few years ie- Heather Mills).

Your original request was documentation knowledge. Go to your embassy and request what papers they need. Getting these papers (and whether they exist or not now is neither here or there) together will give you the chance to learn and make your own decisions on those findings.

Only you can decide the trust worthiness of a potential mate. If that trust is already there for some months then that is a damn good start. And yes Thai women do look at you for a long time as the money machine - early on get them involved with budgeting etc. so that they understand its not a limitless supply and that they will need to contribute as well. Its not totally about money with thai women, its also face and standing. And these you learn are easy to give and can also give you great enjoyment. Their greatest need is suprising no different from yours or mine - security.

First of all, i do have the required number of balls to reason the way through for myself however, i would be doing so from a position of some ignorance. The whole point of most of these forums is to share info and experience with each other, i merely wish to negotiate the potential mine field that is a Thai /Falang relationship [or a western one for that matter] with the benefit of the shared experiences of those helpful people that have gone before me. We have had some trust issues recently, hence the name post, which i agonised over before doing, perhaps that was wrong? but the money side of things as already mentioned has been the opposite which is one of the reasons we have come this far, she has never shown any signs of mercenary behaviour whatsoever. as said before, i keep an open mind and my first instinct is to trust her and im not easily swayed one way or the other by anyones opinion, but welcome all of them to give me a broad overview perspective of the whole issue to help me come to a balanced understanding of how i should proceed.

Post by **Snowden** » March 18, 2008, 8:59 pm

I think that Roadman's post was quite mean-spirited and inappropriate. An apology might be in order. Somchai has come here in good faith and these forums are a place to seek and acquire information and advice. These forums should not be a place to attack a person or make impolite statements. I would note that Somchai's original post did also request information on possible scams and other such problems which might occur.

I would just note, Somchai, that there is a marked difference between foreigners who live here full time and those who live here a few weeks/months per year. In my opinion, those of us who live here full-time have a far more comprehensive understanding of Thai culture, people, and society.

It is curious, though, that in your most recent post you state that "we have had some trust issues recently"? You are seeking advice and information on this forum for a reason, perhaps one that you are not aware of consciously. It is our natural instinct to want to trust other people. That's why confindence games are usually so successful: they prey upon our natural tendencies.

It is true that only you know all of the parties involved and have all of the information. You (we!) must always remain vigilent that we are not in Kansas anymore.

Post by **somchai** » March 18, 2008, 9:04 pm

Thanks Snowden i appreciate your understanding

Post by **philo** » March 19, 2008, 6:13 am

Somebody wrote:

"Maybe Snowden is correct, but I would like to know his sources for the statements that he makes. He writes with such authority that one feels a bit shy questioning the points he is contributing."

I write:

As a (self educated) Professor of Advanced Water Buffalo Studies I am delighted to read the very knowledgeable (first two) posts (on 'Thainess') of a fellow researcher.

Post by **Aardvark** » March 19, 2008, 4:05 pm

Snowden wrote:I think that Roadman's post was quite mean-spirited and inappropriate. An apology might be in order. Somchai has come here in good faith and these forums are a place to seek and acquire information and advice. These forums should not be a place to attack a person or make impolite statements. I would note that Somchai's original post did also request information on possible scams and other such problems which might occur.

I would just note, Somchai, that there is a marked difference between foreigners who live here full time and those who live here a few weeks/months per year. In my opinion, those of us who live here full-time have a far more comprehensive understanding of Thai culture, people, and society.

It is curious, though, that in your most recent post you state that "we have had some trust issues recently"? You are seeking advice and information on this forum for a reason, perhaps one that you are not aware of consciously. It is our natural instinct to want to trust other people. That's why confindence games are usually so successful: they prey upon our natural tendencies.

It is true that only you know all of the parties involved and have all of the information. You (we!) must always remain vigilent that we are not in Kansas anymore.

You better get used to it mate, cause our Kiwi cousins while being a quiet people dont beat around the bush once they get their mind set on something 8) that's why we love it so much when we beat them in Rugby :D Hurts em like Hell :lol:

Post by **Snowden** » March 19, 2008, 8:18 pm

My pleasure Somchai and fellow travelers ...

Marrying aThai Girl with an adopted child

Marrying a Thai girl with an adopted child

Marrying A Thai girl with an adopted child